No legislation being considered to protect TN

[Wingshooter]

I can see Michigan, at least the people and not their politicians. It's a little like Illinois, Detroit pretty much controls the state like Chicago controls Illinois.

 

I could see Michigan too. I did some work up there, and the people were great. It's like a different place once you're out of Detroit. I spent so much time up there, I even joined www.migunowners.org for a bit :)

Edited January 16, 2013 by Batman

[Wingshooter]

This time we could add a few states, Montana, Wyoming, Utah, N & S. Dakota, don't forget the great red state of Oklahoma either.

Plus a few more. Oh and Alaska.

 

I agree. My list was just a start. There are so many states that could make a stand, and if they coordinate their voice it will be louder.

[JayC]

What? I can't make that make sense.

 

Regardless, the example you brought up is the perfect example of saber-rattling - had Texas passed the law, the USFG would have shut down flights in and out of Texas and basically crippled their economy. Bluff? Maybe, but it worked, and proved the point.

 

The USFG can afford to play chicken, the states - essentially - cannot.

 

Sorry it was late at night for me ;)

 

Yes, but what do you play chicken on if they remove police powers from ATF agents, then arrest them when they violate state law?  Threaten to shutdown their airports?  That might work for Texas, but would it have worked for Wyoming?

 

The federal government can only play that card once, and if the state calls them on the bluff, they're done...  Worse their bluff might cause other states to go ahead and call their bluff as well...  

 

States are like annoying teenagers, you can only keep them in control because they believe you can... 

 

SCOTUS has ruled they can't withhold other funding sources because you fail to comply with parts of a new law (ObamaCare ruling last year), so if you remove police powers from some federal agents, and then arrest them when they criminally violate your laws, there is nothing the Federal government can do.

 

BTW, how is the Federal government fighting back against Colorado and Washington State violating federal law?  Refusing to arrest people who buy, sell, and smoke dope against federal law?  Oh wait the Feds rolled over on that one.

[K191145]

Sorry it was late at night for me ;)

 

Yes, but what do you play chicken on if they remove police powers from ATF agents, then arrest them when they violate state law?  Threaten to shutdown their airports?  That might work for Texas, but would it have worked for Wyoming?

 

The federal government can only play that card once, and if the state calls them on the bluff, they're done...  Worse their bluff might cause other states to go ahead and call their bluff as well...  

 

States are like annoying teenagers, you can only keep them in control because they believe you can... 

 

SCOTUS has ruled they can't withhold other funding sources because you fail to comply with parts of a new law (ObamaCare ruling last year), so if you remove police powers from some federal agents, and then arrest them when they criminally violate your laws, there is nothing the Federal government can do.

 

BTW, how is the Federal government fighting back against Colorado and Washington State violating federal law?  Refusing to arrest people who buy, sell, and smoke dope against federal law?  Oh wait the Feds rolled over on that one.

 

 

There's got to be some"ammo" the states have economically to use against the federal government if it comes to it.

[gjohnsoniv]

There's got to be some"ammo" the states have economically to use against the federal government if it comes to it.

 

 

There's got to be some"ammo" the states have economically to use against the federal government if it comes to it.

Well the farming states could cut off all food being sent out, that would reek havoc very quickly.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

TN will jump in on it. Might take a few days, but it will.

[Worriedman]

TN will jump in on it. Might take a few days, but it will.

Some of the rank and file will, where Leadership winds up is a whole 'nuther help line.

[Smokin45]

I can see Michigan, at least the people and not their politicians. It's a little like Illinois, Detroit pretty much controls the state like Chicago controls Illinois.

The same with NY   The city dictates what the whole state will do

[Guest TNSovereignty]

We need to develop a state budget without use of federal funds ... what I gathered from Sen Joey Hensley is that this would cut TN revenues by about 50% (and assumes we'd all continue sending our income tax to DC).  We need to demonstrate for ourselves how we can survive an austere state budget, which would allow us to thumb our collective noses at DC when they attempt their blackmail schemes over highway/health care/education funding.  We can't truly be free unless this state develops a budget free of DC influence.  I agree that's a pie-in-the-sky scenario but it's what we must do if TN citizens desire to exercise liberty.  My concern is that our sheeple neighbors prefer security on their existing paddocks.

[Dennis1209]

No. I'm not going to waste my time. Those bills are just feel-good measures and will do absolutely nothing to "protect" their citizens. When a state law conflicts with federal law, federal law will supercede the state law.

 

I agree and disagree. If we're still a Constitutional Republic, those rights not granted to the Federal government are states rights! Just look at what the Federals have taken over with states rights!

 

By blackmail, the Fed's will withhold monies to a state until it bends to their will.

 

If we could get a couple state senators and a hand full of representatives with some testicles to force the Fed's to restrict their activities to what's outlined in their powers, outlined in the law of the land, problem solved?

[Krull]

The only way any of these laws would really last is if the state in question can support it's self without any federal help.   If they passed a law the feds would just withhold funding until the got their way.  

 

 

 

 

Federal Man-----dates!  fitting isnt it

Edited January 16, 2013 by Krull

[K191145]

Well the farming states could cut off all food being sent out, that would reek havoc very quickly.

Loisiana and Texas could valve off the oil pipelines heading north.

[Guest 556or762]

There's got to be some"ammo" the states have economically to use against the federal government if it comes to it.

Some ammo? this country only really works when all states share their wealth, if TN kept theri income tax in the state it would probaby actual be twice what the fed gives us at the state level each year, they got $21136 of mine last year, im single and no kids so I dont get it back either.  Also each state has the ability to control their National Guard units at the state level if I remember right, then there is interstate and river traffic, and lets not even mention the pipelines that criscross tn. Now where do you want to start?

[JayC]

We need to develop a state budget without use of federal funds ... what I gathered from Sen Joey Hensley is that this would cut TN revenues by about 50% (and assumes we'd all continue sending our income tax to DC).  We need to demonstrate for ourselves how we can survive an austere state budget, which would allow us to thumb our collective noses at DC when they attempt their blackmail schemes over highway/health care/education funding.  We can't truly be free unless this state develops a budget free of DC influence.  I agree that's a pie-in-the-sky scenario but it's what we must do if TN citizens desire to exercise liberty.  My concern is that our sheeple neighbors prefer security on their existing paddocks.

 

Get rid of social welfare schemes and the budget would be fine...  

 

Tenncare and other out and out welfare programs account for 32% of the current budget.

 

In 2011 we spent 10.6B on 'work programs'.

 

Metro Sports Authority - 7+M

 

Lets look at the Department of Transportation:

 

68M on "Administration"

28M on "Headquarters"

 

 

There is so much waste in our state government that cutting 50% wouldn't be a problem at all.

[Guest sreksuhn]

I would like to see some states start to band together. I coalition of sorts. Say, TN, KY, NC, GA, AR, AL, FL, IN, TX, etc.. reach a mutual public agreement that basically says to the Fed Govt "come get some". If a lot of states would join in just publicly reaffirming their local and state-level commitment to the US constitution and pledge ALL of their resources to defend against all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC, we might see more posturing than action coming from DC.

It's called secession. But we take the flag and the constitution with us. I think the MAIN problem states have is their affection for the gov't teat. My Rep. Ramsey (now ex rep) and Sen. Overby told me that flat out 2 years ago when they were debating a school bill in order to get a huge (can't remember the exact amount) fed. grant. And lo and behold they passed the law and took the money. Of course the feds benefit from controlling our laws and have their hooks into us because we're addicted to their crack.

[redfsr]

The ATF agents only have powers granted to them by the states they operate in.  TN could remove one section of law and ATF agents would not be able to legally carry a firearm in TN without an HCP and be subject to 39-17-1359 just like the rest of us.

 

You seem to think that the ATF magically gets powers from the federal government, but the states are really what gives them the ability to make arrests, serve warrants, and carry firearms.

 

If the states give them arresting powers, they can remove some or all of those powers, and place criminal sanctions on them if they violate those provisions.

 

A perfect example of this is Texas, they were going to pass a law to prohibit certain types of pat downs and make violating that law a felony...  What did the feds do?  They threatened to prevent any flights from out of state into Texas if they passed that law...  You'll notice they didn't try to make a claim that the TSA federal agents couldn't be arrested for violating Texas law...

Not sure where you got that bit of info but TN doesn't have any control over what the ATF can enforce or their ability to carry firearms.  They get their powers from 18 U.S.C. 3051.  Here is it for reference:  http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3051

 

It's true that each state defines what powers federal agents have in their state for enforcing only state law violations such as DUI or other misdemeanor crimes but it has nothing to do with them enforcing violations of federal law. Some classify them as peace officers just like the local and state police and others have them in another category that limits their powers for violations of state laws. I believe Tennessee defines federal agents as Special Investigators.

Edited January 17, 2013 by redfsr