Two on trial for selling guns without a license

[billyscott]

Just saw this today. Anybody here know how many guns you can sell before it's considered a crime?

 

 

http://www.fox17.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.tn/39e84b06-www.fox17.com.shtml

 

[gjohnsoniv]

Those two went WAY beyond the occasional buying and selling. That report says 300 over three years, so that could work out to be 100 a year. For me personally I don't see selling 100 guns in a year to be "occasional."

[jcj]

There's no definitive number of guns. It's more about "intent".

[Garufa]

I don't know that there is a set amount but if you are turning around 8 guns a month for 3 years that will obviously raise some eyebrows.

[gjohnsoniv]

IIRC one of them was buying some handguns at a LEO rate and then turning them. I don't remember what that was exactly, but I remember hearing about that.

[gregintenn]

From the article:

                                     

 

While it is legal to buy, sell and trade firearms from personal collections without a federal license, one is required when a seller's sales reach a certain level.

 

It would be nice to know where that "certain level" is.

[Slpeod]

I'm sure the number is decreasing with the current political climate.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

From the article:

                                     

 

 

It would be nice to know where that "certain level" is.

I'm curious, too. That article left a lot to be desired.

[billyscott]

That's what I wonder also, gregintenn and 6.8 AR.  

I could see a person with a collection of 20 guns; shotguns, rifles and handguns, needing cash and listing all for sale at the same time. 

Has he violated the law?

If it's just a matter of intent then who determines the intent?

Edited January 12, 2013 by billyscott

[Guest bkelm18]

BATFE: (800) 800-3855. Call 'em up and ask. But I suppose you already know the answer.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That's the whole problem with the ATF. That's one of those things that licensing and federal intervention with basic capitalistic

principles cause. Criminals engaging in otherwise a legal enterprise. Their version of regulating commerce, for the purpose

of catching criminals had that unintended consequence of making someone else a criminal. If they were selling them to criminals

it might have something redeeming in it.

[TMF]

I'm pretty sure if I sell 300 TVs in a three year period, I'm breaking laws in regards to having a business license in addition to tax evasion.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

But the DA or the reporter said "estimate". The municipal taxing authorities would definitely have something to say. Now, the IRS

is a different story. It goes back to that intent thing and actually making a profit. They could possibly sway a jury(might be a stretch)

that it was only a hobby and not a business, especially since the article left too much out to figure out anything.

[billyscott]

Thanks bkelm18 but I'll skip the call to the ATF. I don't trust what someone tells me on the phone and

I fear if I call they will waste precious time researching my Internet history which will keep them from

stopping the real crimes going on out there. <sarcasm>

[Guest 6.8 AR]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Oh Shoot]

BATF can file charges anytime they like, for one gun if they want.

 

It's a burden of proof thing, preponderance of evidence, so I've never seen news on anyone actually charged where it wasn't pert durn obvious what they were doing, at least to me.

 

Not looking for the link right now, but heck, that guy in Cleveland they finally busted recently was damn near on the Fortune 500 list. And they had even given him a free warning a year before. ('course, he bought a full auto from an undercover agent to add icing to his cake, too).

 

- OS

Edited January 13, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[ProjectDexter]

BATF can also pound sand.

[TnShooter83]

I guessing that if:  You purchase or take possession of a firearm with the sole intent to sell it for profit only.

You probably fall into the : "You need an FFL"

 

With all that has happened recently and prices sky rocketing. I'd say one (the government) could make a case on a person

with a home built AR or factory built, purchased recently and never fired, if you are selling it. Like wise with any other firearm.

 

It's all about your sole intent of the purchase of the firearm. It is pretty simple in my opinion.

[Trekbike]

I think the law is intentionally vague so they can charge who they want and who they don't.    

[Moped]

300 is a lot of firearms for a collector over 3 years.  Seems like a no brainer to me.

[npgunner]

300 is a lot of firearms for a collector over 3 years. Seems like a no brainer to me.

Doesn't sound like a "hobby" to me. Also ... selling from a private collection of 300 guns vs. buying 300 guns at a gun show and reselling them are entirely two different things.

[Dave Keenom]

For what it is worth

I was told by an ATF Agent last summer that the magic number is 25 per year in the Nashville office.

That was last summer and I do not have it on paper. Current trends and policy could very well change the number.

I would guess that they could make a pretty strong case if one were to buy several ARs from a dealer at a low price for some reason and within a short time sold them for a decent profit.

 

I do not have to worry as I almost never sell guns.

 

I do know that persons have been convicted for selling vehicles without a license in TN. This normally has something to do with leaving the titles open.

[tntnixon]

300 is a lot of firearms for a collector over 3 years.  Seems like a no brainer to me.

There are a couple members on here who have probably been near that number. To my knowledge, they haven't been charged. To my knowledge, there is no legally defined number. But, as Ayn Rand opined, if you make enough laws so that everybody is a criminal, you can control the population by choosing if, when and on whom you enforce. 

[DaveTN]

Violating Federal gun laws, income tax evasion; it’s a dangerous game. Those doing it know absolutely well the risk they are taking. I would imagine it is more a case of crossing the wrong person or having your name come up in an investigation.

 

There are several stories on the internet of people busted. 25-50 a year seems to be the norm.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That's funny. Norm is 25-50. Quite a range. Must not be much in a law to back that up. Probably a law with no guidelines that the ATF

decides whatever number they want to prosecute with. It's that kind of stuff that breaks down trust in entities when they can do as they wish.

Kind of like their technology Branch making a machine gun out of an AR and using it to prosecute a man a few years ago.

 

Yep, TNT, they're just making criminals :D