State suspends gun carry permit for James Yeager

[dcloudy777]

The TDOS has not (at least publicly) accused Yeager of breaking any law.  His permit was suspended because TDOS determined that he posed a "material likelihood of risk of harm to the public".  Yeager's very well-documented track record of open duel challenges, back-breaking threats, and this latest diatribe is a pretty easy sell to your average jury member that he represents just such a threat.  I'm not saying it's right, but that's the way it is.

 

  DanO

[mikegideon]

And that is somehow better?  You're permit can be revoked because some elected official doesn't like something you said?

 

I'm not selling anything. Just sayin'

[RichardR]

I am no fan of Yeagers, but his retarded comments were not illegal, thus they are protected, so IMHO "punishing him" by revoking/suspending his permit because someone didn't like his stupid but otherwise lawful comments violates not only his 1st but also his 2nd, 6th & 14th Amendment rights..

[mikegideon]

No, no, no.... I don't like this at all. Yeager was stupid, but I want to know what law he broke.

 

If he broke a law, he would be in jail right now

[G27]

Where is this 'what law did he break' stuff coming from? Unless I'm mistaken, the state of TN doesn't have to prove you broke a law in order to revoke your HCP - they just have to feel you pose a threat by carrying. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm not, drop the 'what law did he break' crap as it's a straw man.

 

I don't know Yeager from Adam, don't care to, so there's no bias here - but if someone starts claiming they're going to start killing folks because they don't care for a new law or whatever, I fully support the state of TN suspending their HCP. 

[JayC]

Yelling, "THE BUILDING IS ON FIRE" in a crowded theater is not protected speech so I bet it ain't smart to get on the grid and threaten to kill people in a very angry tone. Especially in our current state of affairs.

 

Not a good idea?  I completely agree...

 

But unlike yelling fire in a crowded theater, what he said does not appear to be criminal...  and therefore the speech is protected under the 1st amendment...  Using that speech to revoke his permit would appear to be unlawful under current federal case law.

 

If his conduct was criminal, charge him with a crime.  But, don't pull this stunt of revoking his permit (for life) with no due process of law before revoking it, just because he said something a bureaucrat at TDOS didn't like, or worse some politician didn't like and they put pressure on TDOS to revoke his permit.

[Oh Shoot]

If I had to bet money, that suspension came from a lot higher up. It could have easily been Haslam's office, or maybe even higher. I doubt seriously that a DOS desk jockey pulled the trigger. 

 

Oh for sure, it happened too quick not to have come down from Bill, whether he thunk of it first or not. I'm sure he had AG or somebody make the actual call.

 

It's an obvious PR brushfire, had to be quelled best they could before it spread.

 

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

Where is this 'what law did he break' stuff coming from? Unless I'm mistaken, the state of TN doesn't have to prove you broke a law in order to revoke your HCP - they just have to feel you pose a threat by carrying. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm not, drop the 'what law did he break' crap as it's a straw man.

 

Absolutely. Again, Kwik broke no laws, indeed was never even charged with breaking any law.

 

- OS

[Hi Point Hooligan]

Have you ever read the state Constitution?

 

 

 

You'll note the legislature is only allowed to regulate the WEARING of firearms, last time I checked, purchasing is not wearing.  It's a big money grab for the state, they could let us use the federal system for free... but no they want their $10 on every sale plus sales tax.

 

So that is why I feel TICS is unconstitutional.

I see your point.. well played....

[TripleDigitRide]

 I'm sure this is a bummer for him, but does revoking his HCP truly keep the streets any safer? It seems the DoS sometimes does this as a big "F-You" to someone who they feel may be getting a little too big for their britches. I didn't hear anything about them confiscating all of his weapons, so I'm not sure what they're trying to do here, other than covering their ass in the event he does flip his lid.

Edited January 12, 2013 by TripleDigitRide

[JayC]

Where is this 'what law did he break' stuff coming from? Unless I'm mistaken, the state of TN doesn't have to prove you broke a law in order to revoke your HCP - they just have to feel you pose a threat by carrying. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm not, drop the 'what law did he break' crap as it's a straw man.

 

I don't know Yeager from Adam, don't care to, so there's no bias here - but if someone starts claiming they're going to start killing folks because they don't care for a new law or whatever, I fully support the state of TN suspending their HCP. 

 

I think you're missing the point, there are 2 separate arguments here...

 

First, that while the law does allow TDOS to revoke permits, it's a BAD law and needs to be changed or removed, because it can too easily be abused (case in point Yeager)...

 

Second, what evidence do they have that he is a material threat?  Is it just his protected speech?  If that is the case, it would seem to be an unlawful action on the part of TDOS, violating Yeagers 1st Amendment protected rights.

 

If his actions are criminal then TDOS should have arrested Yeager and requested a DA file charges, but my guess is they didn't go that route because any judge in this state would laugh them out of court as they dismissed the case (ie the video was protected speech).  If that is the case, then using that same protected speech against him is an unlawful act a chilling effect on his exercise of his first amendment rights.

 

Either way, the law is BAD and should be changed to remove the material threat, or at the very least require a two party hearing where both the permit holder and TDOS must lay out their case before a general sessions judge before a permit can be revoked...  ie due process before hand not after.

 

Finally, who ever in TDOS approved this action needs to be fired by the Governor before they show up to work on Monday, because it's clear Yeager did not pose a material risk to the public, he made no specific threats in that video.  

 

BTW, ask yourself how many members of the black panthers and kkk have made similair or far worse statements and TDOS has not revoked their permits?  (Because SCOTUS has ruled those statements (ie threats) are protected speech) Why the special handling in this case?

[JayC]

I see your point.. well played....

 

Please don't take my comment as an attack, just trying to encourage people to read both the federal and state constitutions ever now and again :)

 

Don't even get me started on the ammo tax (since ammo is an arm) :)

[mikegideon]

 I'm sure this is a bummer for him, but does revoking his HCP truly keep the streets any safer? It seems the DoS sometimes does this as a big "F-You" to someone who they feel may be getting a little too big for their britches. I didn't hear anything about them confiscating all of his weapons, so I'm not sure what they're trying to do here, other than covering their ass in the event he does flip his lid.

 

It's code for "Shut the fuck up, James". He's not dangerous. It's that damn microphone.

[dcloudy777]

 I'm not sure what they're trying to do here, other than covering their ass in the event he does flip his lid.

Knowing what I know about the way government employees think, I think this the primary motivation for TDOS taking Yeager's permit.  Can you imagine the backlash if James did blow a gasket next week and shoot up the Capitol or some such?  And he still had a valid HCP after posting that video? 

[Oh Shoot]

... so I'm not sure what they're trying to do here, other than covering their ass in the event he does flip his lid.

 

Oh course. Not really worried about real material danger, just PR.

 

The GOP, including even our TN RINOS,  don't want that kind of crap out there right now. All they could do to mitigate it right now in a hurry.

 

- OS

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Who cares what someone imagines? That's putting politeness and concern, however possibly misplaced, right

up there with right and wrong. I don't won't any government with that much power.

[G27]

I think you're missing the point, there are 2 separate arguments here...

No, I get it what you're saying, I just disagree with you.

 

First, that while the law does allow TDOS to revoke permits, it's a BAD law and needs to be changed or removed, because it can too easily be abused (case in point Yeager)...

OK, fine - but it IS the law. You want it changed? Go for it. But good luck - most people don't want to live in ultra-libertarian land where you have to  act on your threats or specifically threaten a person for the state to step in and say 'it's not a good idea for you to legally carry firearms in public'.

Second, what evidence do they have that he is a material threat?  Is it just his protected speech?  If that is the case, it would seem to be an unlawful action on the part of TDOS, violating Yeagers 1st Amendment protected rights.

You'll have to ask TDOS that one, but I've zero issue with them pulling his HCP based on what I (and I suspect most would) consider statements that make me question his mental abilities.

 

Normal people don't make youtube videos threatening to kill people over laws they don't like.

BTW, ask yourself how many members of the black panthers and kkk have made similair or far worse statements and TDOS has not revoked their permits?  (Because SCOTUS has ruled those statements (ie threats) are protected speech) Why the special handling in this case?

Two wrongs don't make a right, but throwing our vast generalities instead of providing specifics won't get you far in conversation. Want to make a point like that? Post some specific examples. I'm not in any way denying they exist, but unless I see some that mirror this one, they're immaterial to the discussion.

 

Face it, the US isn't the libertarian dream-land you want it to be. I get it. But the world isn't ideal and we have to live amongst people who feel differently about most everything than you or I do (heck, you and I feel differently about this and I'll bet we're generally closer in our ideals than we are to most of the US). If you don't like they way things are, feel free to work to change them, but in this case the state acted - initially, at least - in a manner that I agree with.

[TGO David]

If he committed a crime, charge him and revoke his permit as part of the process...  if he didn't commit a crime (which I believe is the case), then it's protected speech and TDOS is in the wrong to suspend or revoke his permit over it.

 

Wow, dude... sometimes I think you're completely blinded by Lady Liberty's knickers or something.  This is really simple:

 

• Tennessee issues Handgun Carry Permits which authorizes citizens to go armed in public.
• James Yeager has one of such permits issued by the state.
• He makes a threat that he's going to start killing people.

 

The above are facts.  Now, let's venture into What-if-ville...

 

• Suppose the State doesn't revoke his permit despite him being on the record with those statements.
• And then suppose he drives to Nashville and guns down an elected official.   OR...
• Suppose he's in a diner in Camden, hears someone spout of Anti 2nd Amendment rhetoric, flips his shit and shoots them.

 

Do you think for a second that the State wouldn't get sued for empowering him to go armed?

 

They HAD to revoke his permit.  Period.  End of story.

[TMF]

Yeah, I guess they shouldn't have suspended his permit on account of him being a danger. They just need to look at his record of being a coward in a gunfight and know that he is no danger to society. I know, I know. Low blow again, but f*** him.

[Oh Shoot]

...maybe they should have revoked it under that "mentally defective" clause...

 

Maybe if you read the thread you'd see exactly why they revoked it.

 

Or maybe even the news story link in the very first post.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[TMF]

[quote name="TGO David" post="882171" timestamp="1357954320"]Wow, dude... sometimes I think you're completely blinded by Lady Liberty's knickers or something.  [/quote] She's not wearing any knickers... Bill Murray addressed this in Ghostbusters II. Very distracting, if you ask me.

[G27]

It's code for "Shut the fuck up, James". He's not dangerous. It's that damn microphone.

Probably. But neither you nor I are psychologists or psychiatrists (unless you lead a double life I'm unaware of) and frankly, JY isn't acting normal here.

 

How many times do we have to have someone acting a fool before they go off and kill folks before we realize that some folks aren't right in the head?

[TGO David]

She's not wearing any knickers... Bill Murray addressed this in Ghostbusters II. Very distracting, if you ask me.

 

HAH!  Now I've got to go watch the movie and I've spend the past 20 years pretending that Ghost Busters 2 never happened.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Probably. But neither you nor I are psychologists or psychiatrists (unless you lead a double life I'm unaware of) and frankly, JY isn't acting normal here.

 

How many times do we have to have someone acting a fool before they go off and kill folks before we realize that some folks aren't right in the head?

I don't know. How many times has it happened in the past? Asking because I honestly don't know.

[bubbiesdad]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.