State suspends gun carry permit for James Yeager

[RobertNashville]

Yep, and there's a further irony involved there also. If we had constitutional permit-less carry in this state, Kwik's carry rights couldn't have been taken away, sans being convicted of something that would negate it under state law. And of course he was never even charged with a criminal offense, much less convicted of one.

- OS

Exactly.
 
I did not agree with much of what Yeager said in the video that caused his problem…I did not like or agree with how Kwick was conducting himself (in fact I believe he did a great disservice to all gun owners in Tennessee). However, neither did anything criminal…neither were ever charged with a crime at all.  All Yeager did was speak out and what he said was not much different than I’ve seen in posts on this and many other forums.  Moreover, his speech was essentially politically oriented speech and if one reads the writings of our founders I suspect you’ll find that they believed that political speech; especially unpopular/unwelcome/dissident political speech deserved 1^st amendment protection more than any other type of speech! Bottom line is, were it not for the fact that we need our Tennessee Nanny’s permission to exercise our privilege here; none of what happened to Yeager or Kwick would have happened.
 
I’m all for taking the right to arms away from those who are truly mentally incompetent and are a danger to themselves or others. But I’ll never be for doing so without due process. Unfortunately, this country hasn’t identified or treated the mentally ill they way they need to be treated for some 40 years and while I think we can all agree that the mentally ill should not have arms; we need to be very careful what we wish for less we end up in Tennessee with exactly what I happening in NY right now (for anyone who do not know that story you need to find out about it).
 
I can agree that under our firearm privileges we currently have in Tennessee, what happened to Yeager or Kwick was to be expected and that they brought it on themselves.  However, for those who may think that what happened to them was a “good” thing then I am forced to conclude that those folks really believe we should treat bearing arms as a privilege…that they believe it’s appropriate that we need the state’s permission to go armed in Tennessee and would be opposed to the concept of “Constitutional carry”. If that is what they believe then I find that pretty disappointing.  :-\ Edited April 12, 2013 by RobertNashville

[TripleDigitRide]

Either way, it seems to be far too easy for the state to take your HCP for what I think are BS reasons. But, I guess that's how the government operates.

 

It's no big deal until it happens to you. One small slip up on your part, and BAM!, there they are to pounce. I have a feeling that Yeager would have seen a different outcome had he not had the money for a good attorney. 

 

I'm not willing to be as openly vocal on the internet about certain things, so I'd like to think I wouldn't find myself in a situation similar to Yeager, David Sarti, or even Kwik. But on the off chance the wrong person misconstrues something I've said, I'd hate to think my HCP and right to bear arms could so easily be stripped away. Unlike Yeager, I probably don't have the money or worldly possessions to afford a good attorney. 

 

While we're sitting here thinking that they deserved it because they said some crazy things, just remember, the line between sane and crazy is drawn with an extremely broad brush, and they don't appear to have a problem with moving that line altogether when they see fit.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Either way, it seems to be far too easy for the state to take your HCP for what I think are BS reasons. But, I guess that's how the government operates.

 

It's no big deal until it happens to you. One small slip up on your part, and BAM!, there they are to pounce. I have a feeling that Yeager would have seen a different outcome had he not had the money for a good attorney. 

 

I'm not willing to be as openly vocal on the internet about certain things, so I'd like to think I wouldn't find myself in a situation similar to Yeager, David Sarti, or even Kwik. But on the off chance the wrong person misconstrues something I've said, I'd hate to think my HCP and right to bear arms could so easily be stripped away. Unlike Yeager, I probably don't have the money or worldly possessions to afford a good attorney. 

 

While we're sitting here thinking that they deserved it because they said some crazy things, just remember, the line between sane and crazy is drawn with an extremely broad brush, and they don't appear to have a problem with moving that line altogether when they see fit.

Did you not just watch his video, posted on here this morning?

 

One thing people overlook is that laws and society are always going to have their double-edged sword value

by the content of the laws politicians write and by the way human beings act. You can't always have your cake

and eat it, too. If something goes one way, one time, then does a 180 the next, and that makes you happy,

you have problems: like letting your emotions get in the way of good judgement. It should never matter whether

or not you like an individual, compared to whether or not that person complied with your taste, as to how laws

should be applied, so try to deal with it, next time leaving emotions out of the equation. Then think about how

that law might affect you, when, God forbid, you screw up and say something others may find distasteful.

 

It has nothing to do with the person, but what is actually right or wrong, and that can blur easily by using your

emotions while making judgement calls against others. I know what was said.

[TripleDigitRide]

Did you not just watch his video, posted on here this morning?

 

One thing people overlook is that laws and society are always going to have their double-edged sword value

by the content of the laws politicians write and by the way human beings act. You can't always have your cake

and eat it, too. If something goes one way, one time, then does a 180 the next, and that makes you happy,

you have problems: like letting your emotions get in the way of good judgement. It should never matter whether

or not you like an individual, compared to whether or not that person complied with your taste, as to how laws

should be applied, so try to deal with it, next time leaving emotions out of the equation. Then think about how

that law might affect you, when, God forbid, you screw up and say something others may find distasteful.

 

It has nothing to do with the person, but what is actually right or wrong, and that can blur easily by using your

emotions while making judgement calls against others. I know what was said.

Yes, I watched it. And you're confusing me. Either I am misunderstanding what you are saying, or you are misunderstanding what I am saying. I'm pretty sure you and I are on the same page with this subject. Am I missing something?   :shrug: 

Edited April 12, 2013 by TripleDigitRide

[TGO David]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6QpFsquIDg

 

Actually... a damn good video.  Intelligently presented and very well articulated.  It'd be great to see future videos delivered with the same style and less of what his detractors have called "Roid Yeager".  Too often he plays right into the hands of the wrong people with his over the top delivery and weird twitchy behavior.

 

I honestly can't believe I'm saying this, but I have no problems with that video whatsoever and agree with everything he said and how he said it.  He even seems to have stopped shopping at The Buckle and is sporting a Spike's Tactical shirt this time.  :)

[Oh Shoot]

Kwik was a complete idiot in regards to the legal system, and didn't challenge the suspension on the grounds he wasn't a threat, but on the grounds that certain parts of the permit law were unconstitutional.

 

A smart person/lawyer would have at the very least challenged it on both :)

 

Well, it was idiotic not to show at the HCP appeal hearing at all, regardless of what grounds he would choose to present. His challenge regarding constitutionality was a separate suit, and he chose to pursue that only.

 

If he had just appeared at the HCP appeal with competent counsel, as did Yeager, don't really necessarily see why his HCP wouldn't have been reinstated also.

 

- OS

[mikegideon]

Actually... a damn good video.  Intelligently presented and very well articulated.  It'd be great to see future videos delivered with the same style and less of what his detractors have called "Roid Yeager".  Too often he plays right into the hands of the wrong people with his over the top delivery and weird twitchy behavior.

 

I honestly can't believe I'm saying this, but I have no problems with that video whatsoever and agree with everything he said and how he said it.  He even seems to have stopped shopping at The Buckle and is sporting a Spike's Tactical shirt this time.  :)

 

Yep. His lawyer sent him to charm school. BTW... I'm getting one of those shirts if I can.

[mikegideon]

Well, it was idiotic not to show at the HCP appeal hearing at all, regardless of what grounds he would choose to present. His challenge regarding constitutionality was a separate suit, and he chose to pursue that only.

 

If he had just appeared at the HCP appeal with competent counsel, as did Yeager, don't really necessarily see why his HCP wouldn't have been reinstated also.

 

- OS

 

Actually, I believe Yeager convinced them that he saw HIS error, and was not really a danger. Lenny doesn't have that in him.

[Oh Shoot]

Actually, I believe Yeager convinced them that he saw HIS error, and was not really a danger. Lenny doesn't have that in him.

 

I should has stressed "with competent counsel", who probably wouldn't have let him open his mouth. :)

[JayC]

I don't think Yeager went the TDOS appeal process either did he?  I think he filed in court for a hearing on the matter much like he who shall not be named :)

 

Frankly, if my permit was suspended, I'm not sure I'd go the TDOS appeals process either...  taking it to court might very well be the quickest and best way to get a positive outcome.  Although probably more expensive.

 

At the end of the day, TDOS needs to lose their ability to subjectively suspend permits, period.  And whoever signed off on this, needs to be fired and charged with violating Yeager's rights under the color of law.  

 

Well, it was idiotic not to show at the HCP appeal hearing at all, regardless of what grounds he would choose to present. His challenge regarding constitutionality was a separate suit, and he chose to pursue that only.

 

If he had just appeared at the HCP appeal with competent counsel, as did Yeager, don't really necessarily see why his HCP wouldn't have been reinstated also.

 

- OS

Edited April 12, 2013 by JayC

[Oh Shoot]

I don't think Yeager went the TDOS appeal process either did he?  I think he filed in court for a hearing on the matter much like he who shall not be named :)

 

That is the appeal process, you have to file it or you don't get it, heard in court, not at just their office or something.

 

Kwik filed it, had date set, then date put off by snow, then by the time second date was set he had started his separate suit and just let the HCP appeal slide.

 

- OS

Edited April 12, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[mikegideon]

I should has stressed "with competent counsel", who probably wouldn't have let him open his mouth. :)

 

When monkeys fly outa my butt :)

[JayC]

My understanding and it could be incorrect that upon suspension you can 'request a hearing' with an administrative law judge who works for TDOS, within 30 days, and then you can appeal it's final ruling in general sessions court.  Or you can just pass go and head straight for general sessions court and petition for judicial review.

 

Kwik, filed an a request for a hearing with TDOS under 39-17-1352c1e and then didn't show.  He never filed a petition with the court under 39-17-1352d.

 

If not where did I get it wrong?

 

That is the appeal process, you have to file it or you don't get it, heard in court, not at just their office or something.

 

Kwik filed it, had date set, then date put off by snow, then by the time second date was set he had started his separate suit and just let the HCP appeal slide.

 

- OS

 

[redstategunnut]

When the state sends the suspension letter, they include a handy form for use in appealing. The form directs you to the general sessions court of your county. There is a mechanism for an administrative review "in house" but it appears even the TDOS doesn't want to be bothered with that. The statute on revocation is extremely unhelpful as far as procedure (for example, the burden of proof is not clearly articulated, nor is which party bears it). As with many parts of the handgun carry and weapons statutes, it appears that amendments and revisions over time have created a Byzantine mess.

[Oh Shoot]

My understanding and it could be incorrect that upon suspension you can 'request a hearing' ...

When the state sends the suspension letter, they include a handy form for use in appealing. The form directs you to the general sessions court of your county. There is a mechanism for an administrative review "in house" but it appears even the TDOS doesn't want to be bothered with that. The statute on revocation is extremely unhelpful as far as procedure (for example, the burden of proof is not clearly articulated, nor is which party bears it). As with many parts of the handgun carry and weapons statutes, it appears that amendments and revisions over time have created a Byzantine mess.

 
Yeah, my understanding that the "appeal" or "review" is actually the same thing in reality, a court date. Thanks for the detailed response.
 
- OS

Edited April 13, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[RAJTENN]

The little fat kid in North Korea has threaten to kill people, including Americans, and nothing was done...oh, I forgot Kim has a nuc and James is an unprotected American citizen with a hand gun! So James must be more dangerous than Kim Jung Un...figure that logic?

[RAJTENN]

The little fat kid in North Korea has threaten to kill people, including Americans, and nothing was done...oh, I forgot Kim has a nuc and James is an unprotected American citizen with a hand gun! So James must be more dangerous than Kim Jung Un...figure that logic?

[Oh Shoot]

So nice he said it twice. :)

[TGO David]

The little fat kid in North Korea has threaten to kill people, including Americans, and nothing was done...oh, I forgot Kim has a nuc and James is an unprotected American citizen with a hand gun! So James must be more dangerous than Kim Jung Un...figure that logic?

 

Yeah, TDOS is going to get right on revoking Kim Jung Un's Tennessee HCP.  :bored:

[Krull]

Actually... a damn good video.  Intelligently presented and very well articulated.  It'd be great to see future videos delivered with the same style and less of what his detractors have called "Roid Yeager".  Too often he plays right into the hands of the wrong people with his over the top delivery and weird twitchy behavior.

 

I honestly can't believe I'm saying this, but I have no problems with that video whatsoever and agree with everything he said and how he said it.  He even seems to have stopped shopping at The Buckle and is sporting a Spike's Tactical shirt this time.  :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Outside of the guy being a straight up DICK I have seen no proof that he did anything wrong that would allow the state to take his HCP away.  I once said something on facebook about Obama that had Guns and Obama in the same sentence, no threats made of course but........  The next day i got a report that someone had accessed my facebook account from California and they wanted to confirm it was me.  It was not me......so i changed my passwords and am much more careful about what i post online.

 

Yeager is a general ass hole and is a hot head.... outside of some of the things i have read about him and events that took place overseas he seems to have a decent grasp on what he is talking about but i disagree on his assesment of the 1911(which pisses me off).  I would not hire him for a training class...i will continue to driver to West VA for classes taught by Pat Rogers and Pat Goodale....these guys are what Yeager wants to be....true American Badasses

Edited April 16, 2013 by Krull

[mikegideon]

Outside of the guy being a straight up DICK I have seen no proof that he did anything wrong that would allow the state to take his HCP away.  I once said something on facebook about Obama that had Guns and Obama in the same sentence, no threats made of course but........  The next day i got a report that someone had accessed my facebook account from California and they wanted to confirm it was me.  It was not me......so i changed my passwords and am much more careful about what i post online.

 

Yeager is a general ass hole and is a hot head.... outside of some of the things i have read about him and events that took place overseas he seems to have a decent grasp on what he is talking about but i disagree on his assesment of the 1911(which pisses me off).  I would not hire him for a training class...i will continue to driver to West VA for classes taught by Pat Rogers and Pat Goodale....these guys are what Yeager wants to be....true American Badasses

 

I wouldn't hesistate to take a class from him. I've heard plenty of good feedback. I don't care so much about the character he plays on Youtube. He got his wings clipped pretty good with the last fiasco, so I expect a kinder-gentler character from now on. Still doesn't change the content/quality of his courses. You either get your money's worth, or you don't. From what I've heard, you get it.

[Krull]

I wouldn't hesistate to take a class from him. I've heard plenty of good feedback. I don't care so much about the character he plays on Youtube. He got his wings clipped pretty good with the last fiasco, so I expect a kinder-gentler character from now on. Still doesn't change the content/quality of his courses. You either get your money's worth, or you don't. From what I've heard, you get it.

 

 

Not contradicting this at all.............just stating i would rather take stick to Pat Goodale and Pat Rogers classes because i have that option (which thankfully i have a inside track on).... these guys are proven and you wont see any rumors about either one of them "running" in the face of danger....

 

If Yeager was closer to me and i didnt have access to these two cats I would consider it --- however I know these two guys personally, and they are the real deal.  Hell google Rogers he is a hoot.... but dont let his lighter side fool you ..... he is a bad ass..

<<<<This vid has some explicit language>>>>

http://youtu.be/HvQJtqv5ZFs

Edited April 16, 2013 by Krull

[mikegideon]

Yeah. Not saying James is the best choice. Just saying that his public displays wouldn't stop me from taking one of his courses if it fit all the other criteria.

[Krull]

Yeah. Not saying James is the best choice. Just saying that his public displays wouldn't stop me from taking one of his courses if it fit all the other criteria.

 

 

Makes you wonder with todays society if you had taken one of his classes and was involved in a self defense shooting if it would be held against you when the prosecutor shows one of his You Tube videos or pulls out an old newspaper clipping at your trial....

Edited April 16, 2013 by Krull

[mikegideon]

Makes you wonder with todays society if you had taken one of his classes and was involved in a self defense shooting if it would be held against you when the prosecutor shows one of his You Tube videos or pulls out an old newspaper clipping at your trial....

 

I would just respond with more recent video of James admitting that he was a dumbass :)