Victim decides NOT to shoot attacker!

[walton6467]

Your thoughts?

 

http://gawker.com/5973439/armed-hate-crime-victim-decides-not-to-shoot-attacker

 

[Guest 6.8 AR]

He should have.

[QuietDan]

He's a bigger man than me. Kudoes to him and girl friend for a plan to keep her safe, and kudoes to him for having a hand on the .45 and not getting to the threshold of using it. Sounds like it was close. If he was not in fear of his life from the pellet gun, he made the right call.

[Guest mikedwood]

Bottom of the article says there was a bystander possibly in the way. Exactly how Wal-mart is someone is always in the way, one reason I avoid it.

 

So looks like he did the right thing. I dunno if he knew it was a pellet gun shooting him or not. If he had opened fire and hit the pellet gun idiot and the bystander that would be bad press for HCP carriers. 

 

Then again most people don't have the stomach to shoot someone else, no matter the circumstances.

[Caster]

My personal opinion says spineless coward BUT I will say, his compassion has merit in the politics of the 2A. It proves carry permit holders are not soulless murders. Not sure many could have that kind of restraint.

[TMF]

I gotta be honest, I woulda shot the guy out of anger. Pellet gun or not, he shot the guy 20 friggin times. You know how many seconds it would take the average person shooting a slow cycling pellet gun 20 times? Long enough for me to get good and pissed and end the nonsense decisively. Besides, eyesight is a pretty good reason for me to shoot a person over anyway.

[TripleDigitRide]

Wow! I'm not sure I could have walked away like he did. He seems content with his decision at the moment, but I wonder if he will feel the same way if he finds out this bad guy kills someone next week.

[BigK]

I hope this isn't the only time I hear about this story, but I doubt it.

His life may not have been in jeopardy from a pellet gun, but getting your eye shot out or a major artery in the neck by a pellet gun would be a severe injury.

Like Caster said, gun owners could use some good publicity right now. So, I hope CNN picks up this story to show there are gun owners out there who aren't blood thirsty psychos.

[Romad7]

Having been in situations where I was not shooting after analyzing the situation and the next to me was popping off rounds at a non threat, I think this guy did a great job showing restraint. He knew that his life was not in danger and that showing his weapon was enough to end the situation. He used the principles of escalation of force without even knowing it.

Good job on putting the value of life over his own pride and anger!

[Daniel]

Having been in situations where I was not shooting after analyzing the situation and the next to me was popping off rounds at a non threat, I think this guy did a great job showing restraint. He knew that his life was not in danger and that showing his weapon was enough to end the situation. He used the principles of escalation of force without even knowing it.

Good job on putting the value of life over his own pride and anger!

Im going to guess you have been to the Middle East or SW Asia lol.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Daniel

[Jonnin]

After he shot me once, I would be aimed at him.  If I realized it was a pellet gun, I would then explain the facts of life to him.  If he shot me again, he would sprout a hole.  Bystanders are a problem when you do not see them, once you know where they are, you can adjust. 

 

 

The gun owner in me likes to think this would be wrong or at least biased:

 

"But it also could have been worse — way, way worse — for Quinnell, had he chosen a victim that decided to do what almost any other person carrying a gun would have done"

 

But the truth is, I would have shot the bastid if he did not cease and desist immediately.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Jonnin

[ShamGlock]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't someone die recently from a pellet gun? The pellet punctured the heart or something. I'm not saying the guy was in reasonable fear of his life as I don't know enough about pellet guns to know if Wally World has one that is that capable or not. I do put a premium on my eyesight after seeing a friend of mine lose an eye to a bottle rocket in my youth I will say that.

[Romad7]

Im going to guess you have been to the Middle East or SW Asia lol.

Yes, and the politics of shooting someone over there are similarly complicated... Edited January 7, 2013 by Romad7

[Guest 6.8 AR]

So, he knew they were pellets and would not be in much danger? If that was me, and I felt the first one hit, I would have

used what I had. I can't say I could have known what he had and it wouldn't have mattered. Too many things he could

have done after he had me down with them. If he was doing the harrassment thing along with firing anything at me, I

would be assuming the worse and he would have been shot.

 

I carry in case I have to defend myself, not just as added weight. He was assaulted and should have put that perp down

like a dog.

[Jonnin]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't someone die recently from a pellet gun? The pellet punctured the heart or something. I'm not saying the guy was in reasonable fear of his life as I don't know enough about pellet guns to know if Wally World has one that is that capable or not. I do put a premium on my eyesight after seeing a friend of mine lose an eye to a bottle rocket in my youth I will say that.

 

The guy here was hit multiple times in the head and neck and required surgery to remove some of them.  

He could have lost his eyes, easily, and on top of that is the well known "soft spot" in the throat,  the spinal cord/neck, and of course the *very important* arteries and veins in the neck as well.   Whether he realized it or not, he was in serious danger of serious, permament harm.   He was also in danger of incapacitation followed by murder.  And the off chance of dying from the pellets, unlikely but very, very possible.

[TMF]

[quote name="Jonnin" post="877988" timestamp="1357571084"] He was also in danger of incapacitation followed by murder.  And the off chance of dying from the pellets, unlikely but very, very possible.[/quote] And I would say that is the most important thing to take away from this. Glad that it worked out for him, but when somebody randomly assaults you, you can't know their intention. You must assume the intention is to kill or do great bodily harm. If someone comes at me with pepper spray, regardless of the fact I know it is non lethal, I'm going to draw, because it is a weapon designed to incapacitate. I ain't waiting to find out what the dudes plan is after I'm incapacitated.

[Guest PapaB]

To me, needing to have pellets surgically removed from your body, defines "serious bodily harm".

Unfortunately, since the victim didn't defend himself, another "recidivistic maggot", to quote Uncle Ted, will eventually get back on the streets to harm someone else.

[Glenn]

First, who just stands there and gets shot 20 times. After the first I would have been shooting or moving. Second, I have a friend that almost died from one punch in the face, so you never know.

[Guest AmericanWorkMule]

That air powered weapon can cause death or serious bodily injury.
Those that pretend not to know that are idiots, or pretending not to know are most likely a lawyer coming after you.
The victim didn't use his own weapon because he was in fear of his life after the shooting.

 

If one of "us," as tax paying private citizens with everything to lose, had used Deadly Force (because we had reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury) on this attacker we would have been dragged through the legal system for years, without justice, until we were destitute and our lives ruined.

 

Ask Larry Hickey. http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/images/stories/Hickey%20Booklet.pdf

 

If someone on the government (tax paying private citizen's) payroll had used Deadly Force on this attacker, it would be a very different out come.

Edited January 7, 2013 by AmericanWorkMule

[G27]

[quote]"I couldn't blow this guy away for something he could change later in life. I'm not going to decide this man's fate."[/quote]

Sounds like he needs to rethink whether he should be carrying.

[Jesse]

Most people would be wondering if they are getting shot by real ammo, then they would be trying to get away but at the same time worrying if your gf is safe. If you shoot this guy it would have to be after you find out its not a real gun and after you gather yourself. But witnesses could say you shot out of anger after you knew it wasnt a real gun.

[DaveS]

Had I heard a "popping" noise and felt the pain, I think I would have shot the piece of crap! God could have sorted it all out!

 

Dave S

[East_TN_Patriot]

So, from what I gather from the responses thus far, carry permit holders should immediately dump rounds at someone:

 

A.  if they have a non-lethal weapon and piss you off

B.  if they use a non-lethal weapon on you, shoot them out of principle

C.  if they use a non-lethal weapon on you because they might use a real weapon on someone next week

 

And if you choose not to utilize deadly force:

 

A.  you are a spineless coward

B.  you are a female sex organ

C.  you shouldn't be carrying a weapon yourself

D.  your sanity is questionable

Well, it's always nice to see that rule of law, respect for the sanctity of human life, and the right to determine for yourself whether deadly force is necessary is so well-respected.  It's no wonder so many people think that gun owners are trigger happy cowboys just itching for a gunfight.

As far as my opinion, it's totally up to the individual whether or not they believe deadly force is justified or necessary and that works on a case-by-case basis.  Would I shoot someone who is pelting me with a pellet gun?  It depends on how serious I feel the treat is.  If I realize the pellets are penetrating my skin and I have no other avenue to escape, I very well may use my firearm.  However, that's my decision to make, or yours alone to make.  Whatever you do is fine with me as long as it's a lawful use of deadly force.

I'm just curious how many would be criticizing him had he shot someone over a pellet gun.

Edited January 7, 2013 by East_TN_Patriot

[DaveS]

Let me just say this East_Tn_Patriot; If I heard a popping noise, and felt rounds hitting me, I would NOT wait until a determination of caliber could be made before I shot back. PERIOD!

 

Dave S

[Guest 6.8 AR]

If there was some way I would know it was a non lethal weapon, it might have changed my mind, also, but a pellet gun can kill you.

Even if it didn't, it is still a threat to your life you might not be aware of. That guy wasn't a spineless coward. It was his decision.

Mine would have been different.