Move to arm teachers picks up steam in TN

[Mark A]

I agree, he seems pretty calm to me...

I hope this armed teacher thing moves forward. I know they are talking about it and other safety issues at my wife's school tomorrow.

I am all about a volunteer program as well. Not so sure I agree with it being parents /grandparents only. I want someone who will stay in their assigned area, not run to their kids at the first sign of trouble.

I have a friend of almost 40 years who has 2 preschool kids. I am literally the only "uncle" they have. Restricting me from volunteering at their school, or at the school where my wife teaches would really piss me off.

Mark

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I think instead of calming down, we should be fighting this crap, tooth and nail. Instead, we let this stuff persist. We can't blame

anyone except ourselves if we don't fight it. Just because a law has been on the books for years doesn't make it any more just.

All it did was make criminals out of us and not the bad guy.

 

You won't be able to eliminate this type of crime, but you sure can do some proactive things to reduce it. One of them is let

people defend themselves. The other is to take out the Utopian trash.

 

Simple things can reduce crime. Mike and Mark understand this. So does this Mark. A statist will never understand it. He will buy

into the other guys argument every time.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

It's not just arming teachers, it's removing the restriction of anyone, other than a criminal. Gun free zones kill people. It's

the premise of the gun being the bad party, not the criminal. Ass backwards. Why should anyone have to disarm? The idea

that there may be an armed cop, citizen, teacher or cop would slow or stop this crap immediately. Placing guards implies

that criminals roam the halls. That's not the case at all. Maybe in inner city schools, but not everywhere.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I agree anyone should be allowed to carry their firearm anywhere on public property, like schools. But we also need to ensure we have someone on site at all times to stop the bad guys. Most of these chickenshits would kill themselves alone in their bedroom if they knew they wouldn't succeed.

Something needs to be done to protect our kids. We have more security guarding inanimate objects. Heck, the receipt checker at Sam's is more of a detergent than what some schools have right now.

Dolomite

[Guest 6.8 AR]

You may be right, but increasing the police state where it isn't the only solution doesn't make for good police work. They

weren't necessary before. When you have a finite resource of cops, and you add to their duties, you get a less effective

cop.

[Dolomite_supafly]

 They weren't necessary before.

The reason why they are now is the US has changed fundementally.

 

When we, as in you and I, were kids and messed up we were punished. It didn't even have to be our parents either. I had neighbors that would spank me if I messed up in front of them. Then when I got home my parents would punish me for making the neighbor punish me. And that instilled a lot of responsibility in a young child. We learned very quickly the difference between right and wrong. And back then all the neighbors knew each other well enough that if one neighbor spanked the other neighor's kid it was because the kid deserved it. It was the neigbors way of protecting us kids. But that has changed because parents do not punish and God forbid a neighbor yells at a kid for doing something wrong, the parents would go crazy these days without so much as a "thank you" for keeping their kid out of trouble.

 

Another big problem is our "everybody is a winner" society in which kids are not allowed to fail. Parents want to be their kid's friend rather than be a parent. And when their kid fails or screws up the parents go on the offensive and take up for their child even if the child is 100% in the wrong. This empowers the kids into thinking someone will always be there to get them out of trouble if they do bad things. Parents do not want their kids to fail or be disappointed, which I understand, but it is necessary to learn to cope with failure at an early age. This desensitizes the kids to failure so when they have failures later on in life it isn't as big of a deal and hopefully motivates them to try better. There are winners and their are losers in life, that is a fact. So parents should prepare their kids for that fact but that is just not the case anymore. A parents job is to prepare their child for life and failure is part of life.

 

Society has accepted the fact that if a kid doesn't fit in the "normal" box then there must be something wrong with them. Some kids are smarter than others and some kids are more active than others. But today if you have a kid that is more active than the rest then he must have some sort of ADD disorder and needs to be medicated. And for the kid that isn't as smart as the rest the standards are lowered for everybody else so the not so smart one doesn't fail. Every child is different and trying to fit every child into the same box is impossible but society wants to use medications to make that child fit in that box. Now some kids and adults need medications but I believe meds are used for convenience rather than out of necessity more often than 20-30 years ago. And what do you think happens when the adult that has been medicated since childhood comes off his meds?

 

And finally a lot of parents have disengaged themselves from their children. They view school as a baby sitting service and do not want to get involved in their child's life, that is unless it benefits the parents. They sit their kids down in front of the television, to watch television or play video games, rather than engage their child and teach them right or wrong. And because of this I believe a lot of kids are getting their moral compass from what they watch or play. Not saying all kids but some.

 

And this is why I think we are in a different world than 20 or 30 years ago.

 

Dolomite

[TMF]

Why there aren't resource officers at every school in America (K-12) for reasons other than the active shooter threat is a mystery to me. Yeah, it'll cost more to have a few more LEOs in a department, but what it makes up for in regard to situations teachers are expected to handle, and then are criminalized for handling it would seem worth it. That fact that he would be armed is just gravy in terms of being a deterrent to mass shooters who seem to choose places that don't have armed citizens or LEOs.

We spent more money protecting Iraqi schools from suicide bombers than we will ever spend on resource officers at our schools in our own country. Plus we get a person that will have the ability to taze these little hoodlums when they get lippy. Edited January 7, 2013 by TMF

[Guest 6.8 AR]

The thought of tazing one of the miscreants makes me chuckle. I'd like to be the one doing it. :D

Nothing wrong with a cop or resource officer in the schools that need it, but many just won't need that kind of help. There

are bigger issues going on in the educational system and the present day family's attitudes. Those things can be reversed.

 

Dolomite, you spelled out the problems well, but leave only a cop to fix it? Our schools need to be run completely differently

and the unions and the federal government needs to be thrown out of them. Parents and their children need to be made

accountable, once again, for their actions. The ivory tower elites should be put behind glass in a museum to show us how

we were once fooled by ideology that threatened our society, and we need to be more involved in our kids lives. A little

simplistic, but that's what is needed, other than just adding a cop. They have their place in some schools, though.

 

When I heard the "Macarena" and ebonics in regards to our educational system, it should have stopped then and whoever

started that crap should have been put in the pillory in the town square for all to see what kind of dumb ass is teaching our

children. It started way before that with revising history and accepting mediocrity, but that was where I drew the limit and

starved for a few years with my kids in private schools. Use performance based management in front of the teacher and

make things happen, once again. Hell, if NASA could get us to the moon with slide rules, we can teach our kids better.

 

Tell our educators if that's the best they will do, they are fired and no union will get their job back.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Why there aren't resource officers at every school in America (K-12) for reasons other than the active shooter threat is a mystery to me. Yeah, it'll cost more to have a few more LEOs in a department, but what it makes up for in regard to situations teachers are expected to handle, and then are criminalized for handling it would seem worth it. That fact that he would be armed is just gravy in terms of being a deterrent to mass shooters who seem to choose places that don't have armed citizens or LEOs.

We spent more money protecting Iraqi schools from suicide bombers than we will ever spend on resource officers at our schools in our own country. Plus we get a person that will have the ability to taze these little hoodlums when they get lippy.

I agree with you, TMF, except that money thing will keep us in the crapper longer, when we could utilize dumping the gun free zone

as a solid substitute and make several of the teachers resource officers out of voluntary and possibly HCP carriers do the same thing.

 

This is not the threat it's made out to be. The incident rate is very low and while unpredictable, it is manageable if throwing out the

possibility of being met with resistance from anyone, not just a cop. The crime statistics bear this out. You can't completely eliminate

this type of threat, just throw money and resources at it, when there are more efficient ways to deal with it.

 

What's the reason many carry handguns? I keep hearing it's because we can't carry cops around. :D

[TMF]

[quote name="6.8 AR" post="877968" timestamp="1357569899"]Parents and their children need to be made accountable, once again, for their actions. [/quote] Haha, and we make fun of liberals as they dream of a utopian society!

[TMF]

[quote name="6.8 AR" post="877978" timestamp="1357570368"]I agree with you, TMF, except that money thing will keep us in the crapper longer, when we could utilize dumping the gun free zone as a solid substitute and make several of the teachers resource officers out of voluntary and possibly HCP carriers do the same thing.   This is not the threat it's made out to be. The incident rate is very low and while unpredictable, it is manageable if throwing out the possibility of being met with resistance from anyone, not just a cop. The crime statistics bear this out. You can't completely eliminate this type of threat, just throw money and resources at it, when there are more efficient ways to deal with it.   What's the reason many carry handguns? I keep hearing it's because we can't carry cops around. :D[/quote] School shootings don't keep me up at night. Sandy Hook is such a horrifying event, but does not raise or lower any threat to our kids. It was one guy and he is now dead. I condone resource officers at every school due to the shift in society regarding parenting, which has created little monsters which teachers can't handle because they aren't allowed to knock the snot out of them. The fact the officers are armed is gravy as I said. It would serve as a deterrent as well as an on scene responder to reduce the number of casualties. Win/win, in my opinion. I don't think the spending on that is significant enough to care. Essentially it is one more employee a the school, which has a whole lotta them already. The gains outweigh the losses in my opinion.

[Guest RevScottie]

How many people actually fail the HCP course?...very few and many instructorss tell you up front that it is almost impossible to fail. That is the reason I would like to see more training in this situation. I really think it is almost too easy to obtain an HCP in TN.

 

Overheard a lady at dinner one night talking about getting her HCP. "I passed it even though they gave me a bad gun because the bullets kept falling out of it" Those kind of folks worry me.

[Jesse]

My kids school is asking parents to take background checks and sing up to take turns patrolling the school looking for out place people cars and stuff. But they arent allowed in the locked class rooms.

[Guest 270win]

These are the same arguments we have heard against pistol licenses in general, carrying in places that serve alcohol, pilots with guns.  Same song and dance that just does not hold up.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

How many people actually fail the HCP course?...very few and many instructorss tell you up front that it is almost impossible to fail. That is the reason I would like to see more training in this situation. I really think it is almost too easy to obtain an HCP in TN.

 

Overheard a lady at dinner one night talking about getting her HCP. "I passed it even though they gave me a bad gun because the bullets kept falling out of it" Those kind of folks worry me.

Whatever happened to individual accountability in our society? You really think the government should be in
charge of teaching us how and when to use our firearms? The individual should be responsible for his or her own actions.

That means he or she is responsible for getting the adequate training to handle that responsibility. There is something

called justice. It should apply in all cases.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

School shootings don't keep me up at night. Sandy Hook is such a horrifying event, but does not raise or lower any threat to our kids. It was one guy and he is now dead. I condone resource officers at every school due to the shift in society regarding parenting, which has created little monsters which teachers can't handle because they aren't allowed to knock the snot out of them. The fact the officers are armed is gravy as I said. It would serve as a deterrent as well as an on scene responder to reduce the number of casualties. Win/win, in my opinion. I don't think the spending on that is significant enough to care. Essentially it is one more employee a the school, which has a whole lotta them already. The gains outweigh the losses in my opinion.

They don't keep me up at night, either. It's the emotional based, statist arguments that do keep me up, though. That's

how our rights keep on dwindling. When someone expects something from the government it has no duty to perform,

they are spitting in the wind. If people adopted individual accountability as their premise for existence, they might see things

differently. There are certain things you don't compromise. Actually, most everything.

 

When you spend one dollar on something that won't make a difference except give you the false illusion that something will

be fixed, it is a dollar too much. One more added effect on this type of attitude would be our economy would prosper, instead

of allowing the victim mentality to prevail.

 

Yeh, I'm a dreamer. :D

[Guest 6.8 AR]

It's all moot, anyway. anything that would pass any legislature in the country will take months, if not years, and will cost

billions, require countless studies and meet the approval of someone's damned union, be it a police union or teachers,

whichever can garner the most in dues. In other words, it will be a cold day in Hell before the problem is solved.

 

Beside being broke and taking our guns away from us, we will be fighting a bigger enemy than any Army can defend:

inflation, runaway and value killing. You're going to have to take care of your own kids, once again. Might as well get

used to it.

[JD_]

Edit: Wrong thread. Sorry.

Edited January 8, 2013 by JD_

[GlockSpock]

To the original theme of the thread, I wrote Kevin Brooks (Rep. for 24th District) a letter asking him to support HB0006, the bill introduced by Eric Watson to allow teachers, principals, and school personal to possess firearms on school property as long as they meet certain requirements.