Move to arm teachers picks up steam in TN

[QuietDan]

Move to arm teachers picks up steam in TN

 

Written by Chas Sisk, Andy Humbles and Lisa Fingeroot

 

Measures that would bring more police officers into schools and allow teachers to be armed appear to be gaining momentum among Tennessee lawmakers in the wake of last month’s shooting in Newtown, Conn.

 

Several Tennessee lawmakers say they have drafted legislation that would encourage school districts to place at least one armed police officer in every school and would allow teachers who have undergone special training to bring their personal handguns into schools.

 

And at least one city in Middle Tennessee is considering paying for teachers to take a gun training course.

The state measures would reverse decades-old policies that have all but banned firearms from schools.

Supporters say gun bans have failed to prevent school violence, but many teachers, administrators and parents are reacting with alarm to the proposals. Some are against teachers having guns in classrooms, saying it will make schools less safe by letting untrained marksmen carry guns into an environment filled with children.

 

“A teacher’s responsibility is to educate,” said John Hittle, a parent of children at West Wilson Middle and Lebanon High in Wilson County. “(Potentially shooting an intruder) is not what they are there for.”

 

The proposals probably will spark intense debate after the Tennessee General Assembly starts its 2013-14 session on Tuesday. They could thrust Tennessee into the center of the national discussion over how to respond to the Dec. 14 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School.

 

The National Education Association and Professional Educators of Tennessee, the two largest trade groups for teachers in Tennessee, say they oppose allowing teachers to go armed. Gov. Bill Haslam and House Speaker Beth Harwell, both Republicans, also are expressing skepticism toward the prospect.

 

But the idea is being embraced in the state legislature. At least two bills are in the works that would let teachers carry guns, along with other measures meant to increase security in schools.

 

Some local officials also support the proposal. Mt. Juliet has reacted to potential changes to school gun laws in Tennessee with a resolution to waive all fees for Wilson County teachers who want to take the city’s handgun training course.

 

“My suggestion is to allow more teachers to obtain conceal carry permits and (change the laws) to allow those to carry (a weapon) on school grounds,” Mayor Ed Hagerty said. “Then you don’t need an armed officer at every school.”

 

Letting teachers carry guns in schools appears to be allowable under federal law. The Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 generally prohibits guns within 1,000 feet of schools, mandating at least a one-year expulsion for any student who brings a firearm to school. But the law includes numerous exemptions that could be used to let teachers who hold a Tennessee handgun carry permit bring their guns into school buildings.

 

(The constitutionality of the Gun-Free School Zones Act also has been in doubt since a 1994 ruling against it by the U.S. Supreme Court.)

 

Tennessee law places tighter restrictions on firearms in schools, including a maximum penalty of up to six years in prison for bringing one onto a campus. The law makes an exception for people who bring a gun in their vehicle while picking up or dropping off passengers.

 

 

The proposals

 

 

Bills in the works would add new exceptions.

 

State Rep. Terri Lynn Weaver, R-Lancaster, is proposing a measure that would let teachers with handgun carry permits bring their guns to school, with the permission of the local school system. The bill also would require teachers to go through special training, and it would allow them to load their guns only with “frangible bullets,” ammunition designed to break apart to minimize the risk of ricocheting.

 

Meanwhile, state Sen. Frank Niceley, R-Knoxville, says he has drafted a bill that would require districts to assign at least one resource officer, typically a sheriff’s deputy or other armed police officer, to every school or to allow teachers to go armed.

 

“We’ll probably have several co-sponsors,” he said. “There seems to be a lot of interest in it. I’ve had very, very little negative response, at least from people in Tennessee.”

 

State Sen. Stacey Campfield, R-Knoxville, also plans to introduce legislation proposing three options for schools — to have a trained student resource officer on campus; allow faculty members who are handgun carry permit holders to take student resource officer training so they can carry a gun at school; require the school system to assume liability of its students.

 

“Gun-free zones don’t work, and that’s been proven time and time again,” Campfield said.

 

 

Haslam is cautious

 

Republican leaders, however, are responding cautiously.

 

In an interview shortly after the Newtown shooting, Haslam said changes to Tennessee’s gun laws should be done using a “holistic approach” that also could include increased funding for mental health services and more school resource officers.

 

“What if the teacher doesn’t want to be armed?” he said. “I’ve never seen a survey, but I bet if you went out and polled elementary school teachers, I bet you wouldn’t get an overwhelming number of them who carry.”

Harwell said through a spokeswoman Friday that she also favors more resource officers.

 

“The speaker realizes there will be a number of bills filed on this subject and there will be discussions about it this session,” spokeswoman Kara Owen said. “She favors properly trained armed personnel in our schools to protect our children. Fifty percent of our schools already have this in the form of school resource officers, so if we can increase that number within fiscal constraints, she would favor that.”

 

Incoming state Rep. Darren Jernigan, D-Nashville, said he opposes the allowance of guns in schools, citing an increased potential a student could gain possession of a weapon as one reason.

 

“If teachers wanted to be in law enforcement they would have gone into law enforcement,” Jernigan said. “I see more problems with arming teachers than benefits on the other side. The left wants to ban guns, and the right wants to add guns, and finding the middle ground is becoming more difficult.”

 

Jernigan believes placing a student resource officer at all schools is “the best compromise.”

 

 

Mt. Juliet takes steps

 

In Wilson County, student resource officers are already in the high schools, middle schools and K-8 schools in the Wilson County Schools’ and the Lebanon Special School District systems. Twelve more student resource officers would be needed for one to be in each public K-5 elementary school in both systems, Sheriff Robert Bryan said.

 

But officials in Mt. Juliet are nonetheless taking steps that would make it easier for teachers to receive handgun training. Hagerty, the city’s mayor, and James Maness, its vice mayor, have co-sponsored a resolution that calls for the city to waive its fees for teachers who want to enroll in its eight-hour handgun safety course.

 

The standard cost for the course is $50 for Mt. Juliet residents and business owners. The cost is $75 for Wilson County residents outside the city and $100 for non-Wilson County residents.

 

Wendell Marlowe, the principal at West Wilson Middle School who also serves on the Wilson County Commission, believes county governments and school systems will need to look at liability issues if the state allows educators to be armed at school.

 

“I would still want our school administrators, the school board, the director of schools and law enforcement to have some long discussions before any policy changes,” Marlowe said. “Even with proper training, I’m not sure there should be a blanket policy concerning faculty and staff members being allowed to have a firearm in our schools.”

 

Mike Davis, the director of Wilson County Schools, also expressed doubts about armed teachers.

“If for some reason a weapon was left unsecured, the possibility exists a student could get a gun,” Davis said. “And there are some students who are physically very strong and could overpower (a teacher) in certain situations.

 

“I personally don’t think adding guns to the equation is a good mix, and the law would have to be changed anyway. I don’t think parents would be very comfortable.”

 

Gera Summerford, who speaks for the Tennessee Education Association, the state’s largest teacher group and also its only formal union, expects her board to take an official position against the proposal to allow teachers to carry guns. The topic is on the agenda for a meeting in two weeks.

 

“A teacher’s job is to nurture and teach,” she said. “I just don’t think the teachers are the ones who need to be concerned (with stopping an intruder). Their main concern is to keep children safe and do what is best for the children, and that is different from being on the front line as a guard.”

 

Professional Educators of Tennessee, which is formed as an association instead of a union, has a different view. “We want to leave it to the locals to decide,” said Executive Director JC Bowman. His group believes each local government in Tennessee should have the ability to make its own decision about guns because many are small and rural and not financially able to hire school resource officers for every school.

 

 

Arming teachers vs. officers

 

Bowman, a former Marine with a permit to carry a concealed weapon in Tennessee, has some personal reservations, though, and would prefer to see trained resource officers in every school. “I don’t want a Wild West situation,” he said. “We are entering new ground. I don’t want to be anti-gun, but I think we have to be reasonable.”

 

Because of his military training, Bowman can envision a situation where a teacher with a handgun could exacerbate the situation and get hurt instead of stopping a school intruder armed with the kinds of semi-automatic weapons that have been used in most school shootings. “If you are in a position to avoid conflict, you want to avoid conflict,” Bowman added.

 

Kyle Mallory, a seventh-grade social studies teacher in Stewart County, chairman of the Stewart County Republican Party, a member of the National Rifle Association and the father of three schoolchildren, believes the safety concerns can be addressed and wants to see legislation that will allow teachers to carry guns.

“This could be done through the Tennessee Law Enforcement Training Academy, in other words making teachers certified law enforcement officers,” he said.

 

Bowman and Summerford are calling for federal and state dollars to better fund security measures and also for funds for more school counselors, who might help prevent school shootings by recognizing emotional problems in students before they bubble over into violence.

 

“We have to recognize that public schools are a high priority in this state,” Bowman said.

 

National Education Association President Dennis Van Roekel supports the idea of trained officers in schools, but not arming teachers.

 

In a statement from his office, Van Roekel said “haphazardly putting more guns into our schools is the last thing we should be doing to ensure the safety of our students.”

 

“It’s our job as educators to ensure the safety of children, and that means reducing the possibility of any gunfire in our schools by taking a three-pronged approach to violence prevention: meaningful gun violence prevention efforts; increased access to mental health services; and creating a safe and secure learning environment through school facilities upgrades, more counseling and violence prevention support for students, and more training for all school personnel,” he added.

 

 

'Borderline insanity'

 

Ken Trump, president of National School Safety and Security Services, a Cleveland-based national consulting firm, and a 25-year veteran of the school security field, calls the discussion “borderline insanity.”

Like teachers, Trump is calling on politicians to devote more money to counselors and professional law enforcement officers. “There is a big difference in protecting me and my family” and being responsible for the protection of a large group of people in a public place, he said.

 

After the shooting at Columbine High School in 1999, a no-negotiation policy became the national standard when experts came to understand the only way to stop a gunman was to shoot him.

 

Officers, including school resource officers in Nashville, are now trained to get into the school as quickly as possible and shoot the gunman even if they are the only officer on the scene.

 

Most school security measures in Tennessee are funded by local government agencies that make their own agreements between law enforcement and school officials. But the state has nearly $5 million it gives to various districts each year in the form of school safety grants, said Kelli Gauthier, a spokeswoman for the state Department of Education.

 

 

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130106/NEWS0201/301060068/Move-arm-teachers-picks-up-steam-TN

Edited January 6, 2013 by QuietDan

[Dolomite_supafly]

I will say Bowman is an idiot. And what qualifications does he have, other than being a veteran, to comment on the abilities of others. He is borderline liberal spewing the same "Wild West Shootout" BS that you find in most liberal articles. This has proven to be false time and time again.

 

Mr Bowman, sell your guns to fund your move to one of the gun free cities, like Chicago or DC, where you will be safe.

 

Dolomite

[Mark@Sea]

He's head of an association that has a very good chance of adding a significant number of dues paying members.

Same for the head of the consulting firm.  Follow the money.

[RED333]

I can see the point on both sides, Police are trained for months, years. Teachers will get what looks like 1 day.

That being said, the more Treachers that are armed the better!

Lets give them more training, at least 1 day a month, who pays for it,

I will in higher taxes, so be it. Both my kids are out of school now.

[Guest PapaB]

Some are against teachers having guns in classrooms, saying it will make schools less safe by letting untrained marksmen carry guns into an environment filled with children.

 

There's an oxymoron for you. Shouldn't someone who's untrained, but meets the criteria of being a marksman, be referred to as a "gifted shooter"?

 

My bad. I forgot, "gifted shooter" wouldn't sound evil enough.

Edited January 6, 2013 by PapaB

[jb980]

It seems to me that no one has noticed the tendancy of these shooters to stop themselves, permanently, when confronted by an armed "victim." I don't think we need to force anyone to carry a gun, or force any teachers to train as resource officers, but to allow those that want to protect themselves to do so.

[Mark@Sea]

Yes, police get years of training - in the law, and how it is applied.  Marksmanship, etc. - not so much.  A shooting enthusiast is liable to outshoot a police officer.

  Let those who want, carry.  A school resource officer (like the one in Colorado) is likely to be elsewhere, or eating lunch, or just a check collector who isn't gonna risk his life.  The teacher is the one already there, and when put in a position of shoot or die, there isn't any question of what laws the nutcase is breaking, or what constitutes an illegal search, or if his miranda rights have been observed.  Shoot until there is no threat, and settle questions afterwards.

[Guest CigarGuy]

You should not make it mandatory, but for those that are comfortable with it, I don't see why not. They are teachers first, so I don't think we'd have to worry about any Rambo-types.

[RobertY]

I am one that is against arming teachers. They have enough on thier plates to deal with. Also in the upper grades there are to many "angry" kids that can over power a teacher or surprise a teacher and arm themselves in that way.

 

My proposal is using groups of volunteer legal HCP holders that carry conceled. Ones that have a lot of range time and experiance. I am pretty sure that there are lots of retired officers, military, gaurdsmen, that would gladly step up and go back to school to be there to protect children. Do not have it obvious as to who is carrying and who is not. That would be a great determent.

[Guest Mbeck]

I like the idea of arming people in classrooms.. but here are some issues I have.

 

1. If there is any pressure from administration to carry.. this could be a problem.

 

2. Some teachers do not need to be armed. My wife was a teacher.. and I got to know some crazies that worked with her. I would not want some of those people having a gun around y kids. There should be some psych test that needs to be passed as well.

 

3. More training. There should be a week long training course.. not just a day of instruction. I would desperately need training specific to the classroom situation to feel that I would be at all successful in protecting anyone in that situation.

 

4. It can't just be the teachers. We have to allow other school workers to carry as well. If we say its only teachers.. we are putting a target on their heads.. there needs to be someone in the halls to try to stop a gunman before he gets to a classroom.

 

We also need to employ armed security at our schools. and remove the gun free zones. If parents that come to and from school are also armed, that would help as well.

[QuietDan]

I'll tell ya, I've got reservations about teachers with guns.

 

However, while still on active duty a few years back, I took a bunch of educators on a tour of Air Force Basic Training and the other schools at Lackland Air Force Base. We visited the barracks, the dining halls, the military working dogs, the Security Forces School.

 

At the Security Forces School, we had a FAST (Fire Arms Simulator Training) facility, a simulator with the high end video system and the compressed air powered M9 pistols, the works. We had the teachers up against the Security Forces professionals in a video active shooter scenario. The perpetrator with a knife was in the library with kids, and the scenario called for two security forces to respond in the library. In the video, the perpetrator grabbed one of the kids across the neck with the knife and shielded his body behind the kids, complete with screaming and yelling and four-letter threats.

 

The real-life visiting LIBRARIAN shot the Perpetrator in the forehead with one shot. She did it faster than the trained Security Forces. The FAST Simulator awarded her a perfect score. Absolutely Freaking Legendary.

 

You'd be very surprised what mommas can do when their children are threatened.

Edited January 6, 2013 by QuietDan

[1pointofview]

Once again the tennessean showed their rear and provided more proof they don't care about fact but only narrative and ideology. And Brian haas wonders why we are so cynical

[Guest CigarGuy]

I guess I look at this from a personal perspective. IF I were a teacher, I would want the right to defend myself, and my students, in a classroom setting. My wife IS a teacher and want nothing to do with guns.

[1pointofview]

My wife is a teacher as well and is not crazy about guns but is not against them. However, she will be getting her carry permit next month. There are several female teachers at my kids elementary school who are avid shooters.

[East_TN_Patriot]

Yes, police get years of training - in the law, and how it is applied.  Marksmanship, etc. - not so much.  A shooting enthusiast is liable to outshoot a police officer.

  Let those who want, carry.  A school resource officer (like the one in Colorado) is likely to be elsewhere, or eating lunch, or just a check collector who isn't gonna risk his life.  The teacher is the one already there, and when put in a position of shoot or die, there isn't any question of what laws the nutcase is breaking, or what constitutes an illegal search, or if his miranda rights have been observed.  Shoot until there is no threat, and settle questions afterwards.

 

Yes, this is absolutely true.  As a former police firearms instructor, I can assure the world that many LEOs can't shoot a firearm accurately.  It was not uncommon for officers to fail their annual qualification, which many civilians I know could pass with flying colors.  Our department provided a modest supply of practice ammo and access to a firing range at the police department, and I could count on both hands the number of officers who consistently took advantage of the opportunity to practice their skills. 

As a college professor, who has a carry permit, a law enforcement background, and who is a shooting enthusiast, I find it total insanity that I am not allowed to carry or possess my firearm on campus property.  It also does not surprise me that Gov. Haslam is not in favor of this because he made it clear that he did not favor allowing permit holders to carry in city parks.  He and I had an extensive email exchange on that topic when he was Knoxville mayor and no amount of logic, theory, or evidence would sway his opinion that kids shouldn't have to play in parks where people carry guns. 

Incidentally, I contacted my State Senator Becky Duncan Massey about this within days of the Sandy Hook shooting, provided her my credentials and current occupation, and was not even given the courtesy of a reply.  That just reaffirmed why I didn't vote for her.

Edited January 6, 2013 by East_TN_Patriot

[DaveTN]

Is it too much to ask that teachers that want to carry attend the same firearms training and have the same qualifications requirements as their city Police Officers have?

 

I think that is reasonable and gets rid of the concerns that teachers would be less qualified than Police Officers. They may not get the same street experience, but they would have the same training as a new cop.

[East_TN_Patriot]

Is it too much to ask that teachers that want to carry attend the same firearms training and have the same qualifications requirements as their city Police Officers have?

 

I think that is reasonable and gets rid of the concerns that teachers would be less qualified than Police Officers. They may not get the same street experience, but they would have the same training as a new cop.

And/or give them reserve officer status.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Let volunteers do it. But they MUST have a child or grandchild in the school they volunteer at.

And in return for volunteering deduct 1% from their property taxes for every day they volunteer. Or if they don't own property give them a single voucher for a tax free purchase of an item valued at up to $250 for every day they work.

Dolomite

[DaveTN]

Let volunteers do it. But they MUST have a child or grandchild in the school they volunteer at.

And in return for volunteering deduct 1% from their property taxes for every day they volunteer. Or if they don't own property give them a single voucher for a tax free purchase of an item valued at up to $250 for every day they work.

Dolomite

Never happen. You will have all kinds of nutcases volunteering. Parents will never go for it. I wouldn’t and I don’t have kids in school here, I would never stand for it where my grandkids are.
 

Edited January 6, 2013 by DaveTN

[Guest CigarGuy]

Yeah, agree. We'd end up with the "Rambo-types" I fear? Plus, the cost would be prohibitive. Not sure about your teachers up there, but my wife here in Florida has not had a raise In 3 years.

[mikegideon]

A disarmed Tennessee school teacher...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQygPC-4_kI

[Guest yzfMrLee]

Just cause you're a teacher doesn't mean you don't know what you're doing.  I guess my thought is that if a teacher has a permit and wants to then shouldn't it be up to them?  I can see some extra training for the situations that they may be in.  But I bet most of us on this board know of at least one guy who is a pretty darn good shot and happens to be a teacher too.  

 

 

Edit -  Ha!  you posted that while I was typing my response...    great minds and all that.....

Edited January 6, 2013 by yzfMrLee

[DaveTN]

Just cause you're a teacher doesn't mean you don't know what you're doing.  I guess my thought is that if a teacher has a permit and wants to then shouldn't it be up to them?  

It depends…. Do you hire untrained cops and put them on the street? Some cities do; most don’t.

This isn’t an issue that is going to be decided by voters or public opinion. It’s going to be decided by parents, legislators and the individual school boards.

An HCP wouldn’t cut it for me if I was a parent.

[mikegideon]

I think we'll find that MOST teachers won't want that job. I think we'll find a lot of opposition from parents, and of course, every libtard on the planet.

 

The goal is to eliminate advertized gun free shooting galleries. Schools get shot up because they have no way to defend themselves. Just the threat of armed oppostion will repel a lot of these cowards.

[mikegideon]

It depends…. Do you hire untrained cops and put them on the street? Some cities do; most don’t.

This isn’t an issue that is going to be decided by voters or public opinion. It’s going to be decided by parents, legislators and the individual school boards.

An HCP wouldn’t cut it for me if I was a parent.

 

I would have no objection to letting a teacher carry if they completed resource officer training. There seems to be very little opposition to resource officers. It's going to come down to funding.