New to Shotguns - simple mods and ammo selection?

[pattywak]

Just picked up a new Mossberg 590 9 shot parkerized with heat shield after wanting one for some home defense duty. This is my first long gun, and I've never shot a shotgun before. I do have two pistols that were the primaries for home defense. 

 

To the point: I'm looking at some simple mods for the shotgun, and would like any helpful information that you guys could impart to someone new to shotguns. The mods I would like to do are: 

1. Side saddle

2. Some kind of weapon mounted light

3. Sling

4. Being a short, portly asian I was wondering if they made any stocks that were just a tad bit shorter. I have seen some shotgun "youth" models that had much shorter stocks, but I was wondering if they had one just maybe an inch or two shorter than stock. I will reserve making this a permanent addition to the list until after running through some rounds with the shotgun to see how the factory stock does with my arm length. 

 

Also, I previously knew that when it came to shotgun ammo there was birdshot, buckshot, and slugs, but when I actually went to the store and saw all the different kinds with different number shot and oz I got a little overwhelmed. I had no idea there were that many variances ( but I did know that this ammo variance was what made the shotgun a very versatile weapon platform. ) I did not see anything labeled buckshot so I just grabbed a 100 round value pack of Federal Multipurpose load that says "12 Gauge, 3 Dram Eq, 1 1/8 oz shot 8 shot" on the side. After doing a little bit of research, I think Ive found that this was what equals to "practice ammo" much like regular 115 grain FMJ is for 9mm. 

 

1. What is dram eq? 

2. What is the oz measurement of the shot? 

3. For 8 shot, I think that the lower the number the larger the pellets but the less pellets there are. 

4. For some defense ammunition I've heard over and over again that 00 buck is the way to go. What is the difference between 00 buck and 000 buck? 4 buck? 1 buck? 

 

Sorry if these are a lot of questions. Like I said, I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed at all the ammo choices and numbers. I'm so used to "115 gr FMJ" for practice and "147 gr JHP" for carry load that all these options are a little mind boggling at first. I hope you guys can find it in your hearts to help a lowly shotgun noob out! 

 

Thanks for the help guys! 

[Wyldk2]

Here is a link which might help you.

 

http://internetarmory.com/shotgun_ammo.htm

 

I use 00 buck as my primary home defense load but have Slugs as well if needed. I would advise getting home defense rounds ( there is plenty of this speciality ammo out there). It can be expensive though. The cheaper boxes of 25 you find on the shelves is primarily birdshot or target ammo.

 

I have a mossberg 535 tactical ( side saddle/adjustable stock)and it was my first shotgun, learned a lot from on this site and from friends who use shotguns to hunt.

 

Mine already has a sling( came with the gun) But adding one should not be a problem.

[RED333]

Well you opened a can of worms on what shot size to use.

https://www.google.com/search?q=shot+size+chart&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

OZ = weight of lead in the load.

You will get a few diff answers on that.

Pay no attion to the dram thing, look for "feet per second" faster = harded kick.

Some say lights give you tunnel vison, you wont see what is outside of of the light beam.

Sling is ok to carry over your sholder from one place to another.

Edited January 6, 2013 by RED333

[Wyldk2]

As for a sling, i took mine off. Got in the way when i move it thru the house. I would suggest a quick release type sling. so you can use it when transporting it from place to place, yet be able to remove it once settled in.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Wyldk2

[nightrunner]

00buck and/or slugs for defensive purposes.

An adjustable stock would likely help you out on the stock length issue. They also make recoil reducing stocks in the same configuration.

See Surefire for a weaponlight.

[Dolomite_supafly]

00buck and/or slugs for defensive purposes.

An adjustable stock would likely help you out on the stock length issue. They also make recoil reducing stocks in the same configuration.

See Surefire for a weaponlight.

Problem with an adjustable stock is you have to use a pistol grip. And having a pistol grip on a Mossberg makes getting to the safety a pain in the butt. Having a standard stock makes it much easier. You could get a youth model stock then add a slip over recoil pad to add length back.

 

For the rounds to use I would go see how your gun patterns at the likely distance you are shooting. If the longest part of your house is 30 feet then setup a man sized target and make sure ALL pellets stay on target. 00 buck is fine but I also have #4 steel shot loaded into my gun. If you live in an apartment or have other houses in close proximity I would avoid slugs.

 

Here is a pretty good video showing penetration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhZf_x8Esms&list=UU1UICFxcABkGg8Nj3X0dW8Q&index=10

Note that even #8 shot can be pretty devastating. The squares at the bottom are 1".

 

Dolomite

[wareagle]

R a slightly shorter length of pull, you can look at the short stocks. Most have a 12" length of I'll, Southey can be want with armor.

http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/stock-forend-parts/adjustable-stock-parts/buttstock-forend-sets/rem-870-stock-forend-set-12ga--sku408000044-18365-42389.aspx?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=productads&mc_id=14000&gdftrk=gdfV21820_a_7c187_a_7c644_a_7c408000044_d_408000044_d_10286

[tennessee01tacoma]

I see anything #6 or larger(numerically smaller) as defense ammo for a shotgun. Number six would definitely be the smallest I would go. As for the oz load more oz =more pellets =more recoil. Also don't worry about all the 3" and 3.5" loads you typically find for Turkey hunting, they are louder and even more punishing, 2 3/4 loads are more than sufficient, they have atleast twice the energy of about any handgun loads. I definitely buy the cheaper stuff to practice with but when my shotgun is sitting in the corner its loaded with buckshot. Edited January 6, 2013 by tennessee01tacoma

[frankmako]

k.i.s.s. is the way to go with your shotgun.  you can add lots of stuff to a shotgun.  most of it is a waste of money.  00 buck will do all you want.  if you have short arms i would go with a set of youth stocks.  i would put on a light to help at night.  there are many types and prices to look at.  some will cost more that the gun.  i got a old surefire tactical pistol light on my shotgun.  they make a shotgun mount for the surefire.  you got nine rounds, so the side saddle is up to you.  you got more to do what you need to in the house with nine rounds.  no need for a sling.  they get in the way. on my duty shotgun i am all ways fighting with the tactical sling.  i would take it off, but they want it on.   spend money on ammo, not on flash.  it looks good on tv, but does it realy work when it hit the fan.

[pattywak]

Thanks for all the tips guys. When looking for specifically buckshot, will it say "buckshot" on the box followed by the ammo information? I ask only because all of the boxes I saw on the shelves at wally world had nothing on them that said either buckshot or birdshot, it was just the number of shot ranging from #8 to #4. I'm going to journey to Academy Sports today to see what they have in stock. 

 

Also, K.I.S.S is definitely going to be the idea for my shotgun. I'm not going to treat it like a mall ninja ar15, just a light and a sidesaddle are what I'm looking at.  Light for target identification and the side saddle for just some extra ammunition ready to go. The sling I can do without, it's not an absolute necessity. As far as side saddles go, a couple that I've heard frequently mentioned are TacStar and Mesa. The install seems pretty simple enough, but I'm probably going to seek some help for the first time install so I don't mess anything up. 

 

Dolomite, what is the different between steel and lead? Any ballistic differences? I assume it's just the different construction of the shot? 

Edited January 6, 2013 by pattywak

[tennessee01tacoma]

When lookin for buckshot it will say 00 is the shot size but most of the time it will also say buckshot prominitely on the box. Steel shot doesn't deform like lead shot does. When lead deforms it doesn't fly good it will scatter really fast, and your main group on paper will be the non-deformed shot and the ones that are outside of the main bulk of your pattern is the deformed shot.

[Guest MidTNGlock]

I just got started with shotguns, using a Mossberg 12ga as well and I know what you mean about how confusing it can be with all the different kinds of ammo. I've just stuck with 9 pellet 00 buck and 1 oz slugs so far. Got some "low recoil" 00 buck but haven't been able to test it yet.

 

Remington makes a 2 3/4 inch 9 pellet load that I see at just about every store. It's a green/white box that says "BUCKSHOT" on the front. It's got a pretty consistent spread about the size of a cantaloupe at 10 yards out of my 18.5 inch cylinder bore. Been using their "Slugger" 1 oz slugs as well. They both kick pretty good but you get used to it.

 

Congrats on the new shotgun. They are fun to shoot! :up:

[Dolomite_supafly]

The problem with slugs is they WILL exit the body of the bad guy. And it will continue on through walls or doors and injure innocents.

Dolomite

[pattywak]

So it sounds like steel is better than lead. Is steel shot more rough on the gun? And I never considered using slugs for hd, I think I'm going to stick to 00 buck for that

[pattywak]

Found some 00 buck at Bass Pro Shops - they had much more in stock than Academy, might have to be my new spot for shotgun ammo. Picked up some Remington 2/34 9 pellet 00 buck for $5.99 a box. Only got 20 rounds of it - I didn't want to buy bulk until I knew the price was good and what people thought of the load. Some reviews I've found online said it's a pretty good cheap choice for buckshot that will get the job done. Also ordered a Hogue ShortShot stock and a tacstar side saddle. Can't wait to get them in and put them on. Some install videos I've seen didn't look too complicated. 

[RichardR]

Congratulations on your new scattergun Pattywack, very good choice btw, Mossberg 590's are IMHO one of the best pump action shotguns, topped only by the Mossberg 590A1.

As far as what home defense load to choose, I personally prefer Federal's Law Enforcement 00 Buck Reduced Recoil shells, the pellets are copper plated & buffer packed, coupled with Federal's "flight control" wad, they pattern nice & tight out of all of my shotguns, the reduction in recoil also helps keep your shoulder intact if you ever find yourself shucking shell after shell downrange in an extended engagement/target session.

Speedfeed stocks are a much better alternative to side saddles, which have a tendency to snag on stuff, slings are also more of a hassle on a HD shotgun than they are worth, only reason to use a sling is if you are going to be hoofing/walking/hiking long distances with your shotgun.

2 3/4" shells are more than enough for HD, the only reason to use 3" or 3 1/2" shells are for extended range shots, at say turkey's, ducks or geese or for really large/dangerous game like elk, moose or bears.

I don't recommend using birdshot for HD purposes, in my experience birdshot simply does not penetrate deeply enough or at least not reliably deep enough to instantly disrupt vital organ/cns functions which is required to achieve that vaunted "one shot stop" which is what you'd want in a life or death scenario.

Anyway congratulations again, I am certain you will really enjoy your new scattergun!

[Jonnin]

1 oz is pretty standard for "regular" practice 12 ga ammo.  Up or down a little bit does not matter too much, so it might be 1 & a fraction or 7/8 or something --- I forget what all values but "around" 1 oz is reasonable.

 

Correct, shotgun gauge AND shot size are both inverted so larger values are smaller.

#7 shot is fine for skeet and messing around.   #8 is standard bird shot, for small birds like doves.  

 

Home defense, ask 20 people get 20 answers.  Here is my 2 cents on *that*

First, the "spread" of a shotgun at defense ranges is nonexistant.  It might make a 2 inch pattern at 10 or 15 feet with the best choke.  So while a bunch of handgun sized holes is nice, you can't rely on spread & luck to point & pray.  You have to actually aim (still pointing, but it does take skill) and hit the target and stuff.  

That said, the choice between more pellets vs bigger pellets is your own to make.  Anything in the 0 (no matter how many 0s they tack onto it) range (and possibly the 1 - 3 range as well) are more than adequate for self defense.   Slugs are very good as well but be careful, they WILL go through quite a lot of material before stopping.  Its a one ounce blob of metal moving at 1300 or so FPS --- do the math on what it takes to stop that and be wary of it!  So, again, anything bigger than #3 or so will work over an intruder just fine.  I think (but you should look it up, i could have the wrong number) that 00 buckshot is about a 9mm sized hole and you get 7,8 or so of those per shot (?).   Ouch!  #3 is .25 acp sized holes (but much more energy behind them!) and you get a lot more of them -- like 20 off the top of my head?

 

Consider a high cap tube mod if you do not have one -- it may as well be as long as your barrel...

[dcloudy777]

Good advice here so far.  I'll add a few of my thoughts:

 

  Ammo.... just buy whatever 00 or 000 buckshot you can find cheaply.  All 2.75" buckshot does an excellent job of stopping threats, and the differences between loads is pretty minimal.  I would also recommend finding an inexpensive slug (no sabot slugs, they need rifled barrels), and shooting a few to learn the point of impact at 25, 50, and 100 yards out of your gun.  I don't keep slugs loaded in my defense shotguns, but I do like having 2 or 3 on the sidesaddle, in case a situation arises where I need more range and/or precision.

 

  Speaking of sidesaddles.... the Mesa and TacStar are pretty much the only two choices, I've got both.  The Mesa is way stronger, way more expensive, and way more complicated to install.  For hard use (lots of training, going through doors, HSLD cool guy stuff), I'd pony up for the Mesa.  For a home defense gun that spends most of its life leaning in the corner, the Tac Star is perfectly adequate.  The SpeedFeed stocks are also excellent, but much slower to load from than the sidesaddle.  When I had my 1100 on patrol back in the day, I used the Speedfeed to carry #6 shot to dispatch snakes and othe varmints (which is the only time I ever actually used my shotgun on duty :cool: )

 

  Speaking of stocks... First things first... make sure some part of the stock goes all the way to your shoulder... "Cruiser" shotguns are for movie stars and blowing off door hinges.  Anything with a pistol grip is very, very awkard on the Mossbergs, because of the safety location.  Almost every shotgun stock I've ever picked up has been too long for normal folks.  My recommendation is to find the shortest youth stock you can find, and use something like a Limbsaver recoil pad to make it as long as you need. 

 

  A light is very important on a defensinve shotgun... know your target and all that.  The Surefire forends are very expensive, and very nice.  There are quite a few other options out there now, including railed forearms that you can add any number of lights too.  I'm a fan of the relatively new Inforce WML.  A tritium front bead is an excellent add-on as well.

 

  I'll end with this:  learn how to run the gun.  The shotgun is IMHO the hardest small arm to learn how to effectively fight with.  Get some dummy shells and practice loading.  Shoot your buckshot load at some paper at various distances to learn how it patterns (you bought cheap buckshot, remember).  Even with buckshot, the shotgun is capable of some degree of precision if you learn how.  Then grab your dummy shells and practice loading some more.  Have fun, and stay safe!

 

  DanO

[PolePosition]

I agree with the guy above on learning how to run the gun. Definitely go to the range and practice reloading (can be done at home with dummies) and on how to manage the recoil, especially if you haven't shot it before. Sidesaddles won't do you any good if you can't efficiently reload (watch some youtube videos of competition shooters doing speed reloads with their pumps. Gives you an idea of different techniques). Also, although you'd hope you won't have to shoot more than once, being able to quickly make a followup shot is important too. So knowing how much the recoil will affect your body is important. You can practice with birdshot but also do a little practice with your defense buckshot (the recoil is greater in the buckshot).

 

Remember to keep the stock tight against your body. I see many people make the error of not keeping it tight and then complaining that their shoulders hurt. This is due to the gun slamming into their body, instead of pushing with the body. Also, if the buckshot has too much of a recoil for you to handle (maybe not an issue since you said you are portly), you can try using low recoil buckshot. I use Remington Ranger low-recoil 00-buckshot since I'm a tiny Asian haha.

[jdw174]

Haven't seen anybody mention this, so I will.  I've never seen a police shotgun that wasn't bored Imp. Cyl., that is to say almost no choke at all.  Buckshot loads in those guns will spread ONE INCH per yard of travel.  To that end, learn to use your sights.  Tighter chokes would be at least the same or even less in spread.  

[pattywak]

Thanks for all the information, everyone. It's good to know I can get reliable information from this forum because  as we all know, you can't trust everything on the internet. Haha. 

 

I've researched much into the Federal Flitecontrol Wad loads, and the patterning tests I've seen are amazing. I haven't looked into the price yet, but I assume they are more than the basic buckshot loads. For now, I'm going to practice with the cheaper loads I find locally. 

 

DanO, thanks for the very informative post. For the stocks, I went with the Hogue Short Shot, which is a 12" LOP and if that is too short, an additional limbsaver would be in order. And I personally don't like the pistol grip stocks ( with stock and in pistol grip only setups ) so I'm going to be sticking with the traditional stock setup. I also have seen XS offering a tritium sight that goes over the bead. That might be something I pick up in the future. 

 

Considering the light is the last thing have left to want to add to the gun, I may start another thread about that specifically since there are so many options and configurations out there.

Edited January 10, 2013 by pattywak

[jdw174]

Maybe this will be of some help.

 

http://www.shootingtimes.com/2012/11/05/customize-shotgun/

[JD_]

Great thread and discussion guys. I just got my first shotgun today and this thread has some good info in it. I posted mine in Show and Tell since this thread is already here and I had some of the same questions, so I didn't want to double up. Thanks for all the advice and links/information here. 

[tnhawk]

I got my first shotgun last Friday and appreciate the good info here.  Every time I went to the store to get a shotgun, I walked out with another pistol or rifle.  I'm looking forward to learning to properly handle another weapon.

Thanks to the guys at Guns and Ammo Depot in Nashville!

Edited January 13, 2013 by tnhawk

[pattywak]

Glad my thread coule help some more newcomers to shotguns. In my short time owning one, I've learned that what seems like a pretty simple weapon system is actually a little more complicated and can confuse some newbies like myself, but once you start figuring it out things start falling in place. Now to just find a way to mount that light...