does anyone got a good source on 40mm hollowpoints

[Guest Schwarzgebrannt]

indeed... i believe the only thing that is legal are flares out of any launcher... anything else is a felony

 

If it's a 37mm launcher then yes because those are treated as "flare launchers" and not firearms, and if they're firearms they get regged as DDs. You use a 37mm in an offensive capacity and you are turning it into a DD.

 

My 40mm can be used on anything I want. In fact I think I'm going to smoke some damn squirrels with it and buckshot rounds. I hate squirrels.

[Danger Rane]

The only 40mm "hollowpoint" rounds I have ever seen were made from copper rod stock turned down on a lathe.  The picture you posted as an example appears to be turned down from aluminum rod stock......that could get interesting as many of the modern low velocity (undergun and stand-alone) launchers use aluminum barrels.

 

Presuming you have all the legalities of such a venture worked out.....One option would be to use Delrin rod stock as a sabot and cast your hollowpoints as Red suggested.  You can also use it as a cup/wad if you wanted to get creative with buckshot or flachette.

 

The Delrin is obviously cheaper to buy and easier on a machinist tools, so it would presumabley be a cheaper alternative for you.  Additionally, if you walk into a machinists shop and hand him the dimensions for a generic looking plastic "plug" he might ask fewer questions than he would about your medieval looking aluminum venture.

 

Whichever direction you go with this, please let us know how it works out.

[Guest carter]

maybe this would of best been put in NFA class III

[DaveTN]

I thought this was a joke. But I’m curious as to why you would even want a 40MM to be a hollow point?

[TMF]

[quote name="DaveTN" post="883586" timestamp="1358085920"]I thought this was a joke. But I’m curious as to why you would even want a 40MM to be a hollow point?[/quote] Because, why not?

[Romad7]

Please don't give advice on things you don't know about, or at least don't try to sound authoritative. :)

Did I say something wrong? I did the research and I work in a machine shop, I do know of a shop that did get in trouble for making questionable items. Do what you want though.

[Will H]

Because, why not?

 

One of two epic answers of a free man.  The other is because I want to.

[DaveTN]

Because, why not?

Just curious. The wall thickness of the hollow point in that picture appears to be about 1/4 to 3/8 inch thick. I don’t think they would expand. It appears to me that they would just screw up any aerodynamics of the round.

[TMF]

[quote name="DaveTN" post="883610" timestamp="1358087746"]Just curious. The wall thickness of the hollow point in that picture appears to be about 1/4 to 3/8 inch thick. I don’t think they would expand. It appears to me that they would just screw up any aerodynamics of the round.[/quote] Oh, ha. I thought you were referring to the practical application.

[DaveTN]

Oh, ha. I thought you were referring to the practical application.

No, I’m no ballistics expert and don’t play one on TV, but no faster than it could travel I would guess it would either just tumble or flip around and travel heavy end first, and I doubt it would expand. But that is just guesswork. 

 

[gjohnsoniv]

You wouldn't NEED it to expand, that thing would leave a mark even if it was back end first.

[Guest Schwarzgebrannt]

Romad: cite laws or stfu

[Romad7]

If you want to make the ammo I really don't care just don't try and talk an unlicensed machinist into making it for you.

You may interpret things one way but a solid/hollow point projectile won't be easy to explain away as anything other than "anti-personnel".

I'm done with your attitude but hopefully this will help someone else.

[ATF Ruling 95-3]

18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(4); DESTRUCTIVE DEVICE 26 U.S.C.
section 5845(f)(2); DESTRUCTIVE DEVICE (Firearm having a bore of
more than one-half inch in diameter)

37/38 mm gas/flare guns possessed with cartridges containing
wood pellets, rubber pellets or balls, or bean bags are classified
as destructive devices for purposes of the Gun Control Act, 18
U.S.C. Chapter 44, and the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. Chapter
53.

ATF Ruling 95-3

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) has examined
various 37/38 mm gas/flare guns in combination with certain types
of ammunition to determine whether these are destructive devices as
defined in the Gun Control Act (GCA), 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, and the
National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53.

Section 5845(f), Title 26, United States Code, classifies
certain weapons as "destructive devices" which are subject to the
registration and tax provisions of the National Firearms Act (NFA).
Section 5845(f)(2) provides as follows:

(f) Destructive device. --The term "destructive device" means
* * * (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or
which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action
of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which
have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a
shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary or his delegate finds
is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting
purposes . . .'

Section 5845(f)(3) excludes from the term "destructive device"
any device which is neither designed or redesigned for use as a
weapon and any device, although originally designed for use as a
weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic,
line throwing, safety, or similar device.

The definition of "destructive device" in the GCA (18 U.S.C.
section 921(a)(4)) is identical to that in the NFA.

ATF has previously held that devices designed for expelling
tear gas or pyrotechnic signals are not weapons and are exempt from
the destructive device definition. However, ammunition designed to
be used against individuals is available for these 37/38 mm
devices. This "anti-personnel" ammunition consists of cartridges
containing wood pellets, rubber pellets or balls, and bean bags.

When a gas/flare gun is possessed with "anti-personnel" type
ammunition, it clearly becomes an instrument of offensive or
defensive combat and is capable of use as a weapon. Since these
gas/flare guns have a bore diameter of greater than one-half inch,
fire a projectile by the means of an explosive, and, when possessed
with "anti-personnel" ammunition, are capable of use as weapons,
the combination of the gas/flare gun and "anti-personnel"
ammunition is a destructive device as defined in the GCA and NFA.
As a result, registration as a destructive device is required. Any
person possessing a gas/flare gun with which "anti-personnel"
ammunition will be used must register the making of a destructive
device prior to the acquisition of any "anti-personnel" ammunition.
In addition, the gas/flare guns are classified as firearms as
defined by the GCA when possessed with "anti-personnel" type
ammunition.

Each gas/flare gun possessed with anti-personnel ammunition
will be required to be identified as required by law and
regulations (27 C.F.R. section 178.92 and 179.102), including a
serial number. Any person manufacturing the gas/flare gun and the
"anti-personnel" ammunition must, if selling them in combination,
have the appropriate Federal firearms license as a manufacturer of
destructive devices and must have paid the special (occupational)
tax as a manufacturer of National Firearms Act firearms. Any person
importing the gas/flare gun and the "anti-personnel" ammunition
must, if importing them in combination, have the appropriate
Federal firearms license as an importer of destructive devices and
must have paid the special (occupational) tax as an importer of
National Firearms Act firearms.

Further, the "anti-personnel" ammunition to be used in the
gas/flare launchers is ammunition for destructive devices for
purposes of the GCA. Any person manufacturing the "anti-personnel"
ammunition must have the appropriate Federal firearms license as a
manufacturer of ammunition for destructive devices. Any person
importing the "anti-personnel" ammunition must have the appropriate
Federal firearms license as an importer of ammunition for
destructive devices.

HELD: 37/38 mm gas/flare guns possessed with "anti-personnel"
ammunition, consisting of cartridges containing wood pellets,
rubber pellets or balls, or bean bags, are destructive devices as
that term is used in 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(4) and 26 U.S.C.
section 5845(f)(2).

[Guest Schwarzgebrannt]

I'm sorry our public schools failed you.

 

37 is 3 less than 40. 40 is 3 more than 37. This is important, we'll get back to that later.

 

37mm launchers are dressed up flareguns for cheeto eating buffoons. They look cool, and you can own them easily,as long as all you plan to do is shoot flares out of them, or just keep it on your AR15 so you can make your gun heavier just to shoot flares at dirt and impress babes. (The impress babes part never happens)

 

I bought a 40mm launcher. It is a DD. I paid $200 in NFA taxes. I could launch puppies out of it and it would be legal. I can buy HEDP, and pay out the butt for it, and legally shoot it out of the launcher. I can dance around with it in my kitchen at night, nude, while playing Goodbye Horses as performed by Q Lazzarus. 

 

You are thinking of 37mm launchers, where if you use ammunition in it that can be used against people, it is being used as a firearm and not a "flare gun," which then turns it into an unregistered DD. For example, putting my wang into the barrel of a 37mm launcher would probably turn it into a DD, if it would even fit, which I doubt.

 

Even in that case, if someone made a 37mm offensive-use round, it would just be a big round with no legal complications as long as there was no explosive in it. The problem would be when someone used it in a non-DD 37mm launcher. The only issue remotely like what your inarticulate ramblings warn of would be if some "poor, hapless machine shop" made someone a pile of explosive rounds. Not only that, but if I were the kind of cheesecrotch who would own a 37mm launcher, and I papered it as a DD, then I could still shoot whatever I wanted out of it. 

 

TL;DR if the round doesn't go boom, then there's no problems with it. We aren't even talking about a goddamn complete round but a solid projectile. At least that's what I'm talking about, you seem to be having some kind of improvised form of madlibs you're playing in your head against me.

 

Someone could make a pile of 37mm beehive rounds, load them up into complete projectiles with powder and primer, and then you could just pour those all over the floor and swim in them like so many dildos and suppositories and the only legal problems would arise when someone shoots it out of a 37mm launcher that isn't a DD.

 

It is generally a good idea not to give out advice when you have no idea what you are talking about. Until this thread, I never saw someone so ignorant that they thought 37mm over the counter flareguns were the same as a 40mm NFA DD, or that a solid projectile that isn't even loaded into a case (assuming we WERE talking about 37mm, which we were not) is somehow anything other than a paperweight. I bet you also believe owning NFA means the ATF can kick my door down and search my safe at any time, and that filing down the firing pin makes that welfare SKS full auto, and that the first M16s were made by Mattel.

 

I will mail you a complimentary copy of Hooked on Phonics and Learning to Count if you'll provide me with an address. :)

Edited January 27, 2013 by Schwarzgebrannt

[gjohnsoniv]

To be fair, MY understanding of the 37mm thing was that as long as you didn't fire something designed to be used as a anti-personal (not flare) role then it had to be registered as a DD. AKA chalk rounds, baton rounds, ferret rounds, cs/tear/whatever. If you were firing those then your 37mm would be have to registered as a DD.

 

But what do I know? I'm just one of those cheeto eating buffoons dancing around my kitchen at 2:00 A.M. with my AR and taccrap.  :cool:

[Chucktshoes]

I'm sorry our public schools failed you.
 
37 is 3 less than 40. 40 is 3 more than 37. This is important, we'll get back to that later.
 
37mm launchers are dressed up flareguns for cheeto eating buffoons. They look cool, and you can own them easily,as long as all you plan to do is shoot flares out of them, or just keep it on your AR15 so you can make your gun heavier just to shoot flares at dirt and impress babes. (The impress babes part never happens)
 
I bought a 40mm launcher. It is a DD. I paid $200 in NFA taxes. I could launch puppies out of it and it would be legal. I can buy HEDP, and pay out the butt for it, and legally shoot it out of the launcher. I can dance around with it in my kitchen at night, nude, while playing Goodbye Horses as performed by Q Lazzarus. 
 
You are thinking of 37mm launchers, where if you use ammunition in it that can be used against people, it is being used as a firearm and not a "flare gun," which then turns it into an unregistered DD. For example, putting my wang into the barrel of a 37mm launcher would probably turn it into a DD, if it would even fit, which I doubt.
 
Even in that case, if someone made a 37mm offensive-use round, it would just be a big round with no legal complications as long as there was no explosive in it. The problem would be when someone used it in a non-DD 37mm launcher. The only issue remotely like what your inarticulate ramblings warn of would be if some "poor, hapless machine shop" made someone a pile of explosive rounds. Not only that, but if I were the kind of cheesecrotch who would own a 37mm launcher, and I papered it as a DD, then I could still shoot whatever I wanted out of it. 
 
TL;DR if the round doesn't go boom, then there's no problems with it. We aren't even talking about a goddamn complete round but a solid projectile. At least that's what I'm talking about, you seem to be having some kind of improvised form of madlibs you're playing in your head against me.
 
Someone could make a pile of 37mm beehive rounds, load them up into complete projectiles with powder and primer, and then you could just pour those all over the floor and swim in them like so many dildos and suppositories and the only legal problems would arise when someone shoots it out of a 37mm launcher that isn't a DD.
 
It is generally a good idea not to give out advice when you have no idea what you are talking about. Until this thread, I never saw someone so ignorant that they thought 37mm over the counter flareguns were the same as a 40mm NFA DD, or that a solid projectile that isn't even loaded into a case (assuming we WERE talking about 37mm, which we were not) is somehow anything other than a paperweight. I bet you also believe owning NFA means the ATF can kick my door down and search my safe at any time, and that filing down the firing pin makes that welfare SKS full auto, and that the first M16s were made by Mattel.
 
I will mail you a complimentary copy of Hooked on Phonics and Learning to Count if you'll provide me with an address. :)

[RED333]

WOW, this went in the wrong direction I think, was not the OP asking about .40 HP bullets?

Edited January 27, 2013 by RED333

[Chucktshoes]

WOW, this went in the wrong direction I think, was not the OP asking about .40 HP bullets?

Nope. He was asking about 40 millimeter HP bullets.

[TMF]

I bought a 40mm launcher. It is a DD. I paid $200 in NFA taxes. I could launch puppies out of it and it would be legal.

I'll have to check the NFA on that.

Seriously, this is the funniest post I've read in a while. Edited January 27, 2013 by TMF

[gjohnsoniv]

I'll have to check the NFA on that.

Seriously, this is the funniest post I've read in a while.

 

 

I'll have to check the NFA on that.

Seriously, this is the funniest post I've read in a while.

Did you not know that you could own a 40mm?

[TMF]

[quote name="gjohnsoniv" post="897177" timestamp="1359273581"]Did you not know that you could own a 40mm?[/quote] I was referring to the use of puppy jacketed ammo. Even if it was legal, not very aerodynamic. Maybe spotted owls would be a better choice.

[gjohnsoniv]

I was referring to the use of puppy jacketed ammo. Even if it was legal, not very aerodynamic. Maybe spotted owls would be a better choice.

 

 

I was referring to the use of puppy jacketed ammo. Even if it was legal, not very aerodynamic. Maybe spotted owls would be a better choice.

What about cats? I mean you get a nice thump plus the chance of a good clawing, though the owls might be long range?

 

Least with any of the above you get a nice double tap. You make both PETA AND Feinstein/Obama. 'Cause those grenade and rocket launchers just get them all up in a knot.

[TMF]

[quote name="gjohnsoniv" post="897180" timestamp="1359275656"]   Least with any of the above you get a nice double tap. You make both PETA AND Feinstein/Obama. 'Cause those grenade and rocket launchers just get them all up in a knot.[/quote] I'm the type of guy who would drive a Hummer that ran on baby seals and included twin mini-14s in the front grill, a la the A-Team van. I feel bad for the thread drift, but I don't think we're gonna find 40mm hollow point manufacturers here at this point, and once you make the claim your penis won't fit down the barrel of a 40mm launcher.... well, let's say all bets are off. Here I thought I was the only one hung like a PBR tall boy can.

[Guest Schwarzgebrannt]

I'm the type of guy who would drive a Hummer that ran on baby seals and included twin mini-14s in the front grill, a la the A-Team van. I feel bad for the thread drift, but I don't think we're gonna find 40mm hollow point manufacturers here at this point, and once you make the claim your penis won't fit down the barrel of a 40mm launcher.... well, let's say all bets are off. Here I thought I was the only one hung like a PBR tall boy can.

 

I would NEVER make such a grandiose claim such as that I can't fit in a 40mm launcher.

 

37mm, though, sure.

[Guest Schwarzgebrannt]

To be fair, MY understanding of the 37mm thing was that as long as you didn't fire something designed to be used as a anti-personal (not flare) role then it had to be registered as a DD. AKA chalk rounds, baton rounds, ferret rounds, cs/tear/whatever. If you were firing those then your 37mm would be have to registered as a DD.

 

But what do I know? I'm just one of those cheeto eating buffoons dancing around my kitchen at 2:00 A.M. with my AR and taccrap.  :cool:

 

I think if you actually use the 37mm to shoot someone, you get an honorary pass on owning a 37mm.