Friendlies?

[~48_South~]

 So I have meant to ask this question for a while now and it keeps slipping my mind, however a conversation about shtf with some family last night made it pop back up in my head. If a situation were to come about to where you could not bug out via a vehicle and you had to hoof it out,what would you do or what sign would you use to try and let others know you are only passing through and mean no harm to anyone? For example I am 80 miles away from my go to hold up for shtf, if I have to bug out on foot I can travel the 80 miles on foot via the interstate having to go through heavy populated areas putting myself at a great risk, or I can just go off the roadways cut roughly 30 miles or so off my journey. Now the problem lies in when I run into a fellow traveler or property owner who see's some random heavily armed guy on their land or simply in somewhat close proximity to them. Im not a fan of getting shot nor a fan of shooting someone else I just want to get from A to B with as little conflict as possible so what would you guys recommend as sign to show you mean no harm,flag/symbol?

[TMF]

I would say that if things have gotten that bad that you must move that amount of distance on foot cross country instead of using roadways, things are bad enough that folks will be shooting trespassers quite regularly.

[Dolomite_supafly]

There are no friendlies, assume they all want to hurt you and take your stuff because they do. It is best to sneak, hide or move at night or you WILL become a victim. The highways are going to draw all the wolves because it will be easy pickings. Forget about a bug out by highway because it will be clogged within 30 minutes. And unless you are already completely packed and your BOV is full of gas you are not going to make it out.

 

The average person is not going to make it ouf of a population center before the other 50% of the other people leaving the cities clog the roadways. What is going to happen is the highways are going to clog like Rita/ Katrina leaving leaving them stranded and with the option of walking to the "hills" or walking back to the cities. And when you start walking you are going to be able to carry far less than what you left with or even left behind.

Bugging in has some real advantages and if I lived in a city I would, without a doubt, stay put. First is you already have everything you are going to have without the need to transport it to a new location. You can call for help from those around you while in a remote location you cannot call for help. Another big advantage is you know the area. You also know who friend and who foe is or at least have a good idea. Travelling exposes you to more dangers. It is also easier to defend a building or high rise than a tent in the woods.Those buildings are going to protect you from the elements and be easier to keep warm in and survive in for the average person especially those used to living in the city. Food, at least initially, will be easier to come by in the cities as well as potable water. There are literally a few weeks worth of potable water in your water heater and toilet bowls and that is if you don't ration. With rain gutters, collecting water is much easier too. And as disgusting as it might sound cities have tons of rodents that can be harvested for food. If any type of relief or supplies is handed out it is going to be in the population centers first.

 

You need to also realize that there are going to be a lot more people than just you heading to a bug out location. This is going to clog the roadways like we saw during Rita/Katrina. The only way you might get a head start is if you are in a position to get some notice, like LE, emergency services or the government would get to prepare. Otherwise it is going to be a race to get out and if you are not in the lead you will find yourself stuck in the rear. And once you are stuck you and your stuff become vulnerable to roaming bands of thugs set on taking your stuff for themselves. And honestly it would be easy pickings.

 

Dolomite
 

[Guest dmarcin]

IMHO, there will be friendlys at the beginning and may be farther on. Not every one will be out to shoot you if they are left alone. just the sight of some one traveling will not produce a negative response. Although anyone that looks like they are heavily armed will produce more of a negative response than someone that appears less of a threat. Also a large group will appear to be more of a threat than a small family group or an individual. I don't think there is a common sign that will be accepted as a friend or foe unless it is not to appear as a threat or trouble. My idea would be to be well armed but, don't appear to be, don't bother anyone and travel in a small family group or alone. My main goal will be to reach my destination and not to associate with anyone. Now that being said, traveling through heavily populated areas completely changes everything I have said. We all know the problems that a populated area in a shtf situation produces. So I would stay away from these areas if possible.

[Guest dmarcin]

IMHO, there will be friendlys at the beginning and may be farther on. Not every one will be out to shoot you if they are left alone. just the sight of some one traveling will not produce a negative response. Although anyone that looks like they are heavily armed will produce more of a negative response than someone that appears less of a threat. Also a large group will appear to be more of a threat than a small family group or an individual. I don't think there is a common sign that will be accepted as a friend or foe unless it is not to appear as a threat or trouble. My idea would be to be well armed but, don't appear to be, don't bother anyone and travel in a small family group or alone. My main goal will be to reach my destination and not to associate with anyone. Now that being said, traveling through heavily populated areas completely changes everything I have said. We all know the problems that a populated area in a shtf situation produces. So I would stay away from these areas if possible.

[Moped]

I plan on "Bugging In" for as long as possible.  I keep a "Get Home Bag" in my car, just so I can get home.  I live 19 miles from my work place, so I figure that it would be a day to a Day and a half to walk home from there. I carry all I need for 3 days, including high calorie food.  Once I get home, I this will be my home base.  If my neighbors stay, then I will attempt to organize them, since there is strength in numbers and diverse knowledge.  If they "Bug Out", then what they leave will be "assets" for the future.

[~48_South~]

 Great input everyone much appreciated, I live in a somewhat rural area and own roughly 30 acres of land that connects to my neighbors who own a couple hundred acres. My problem with bugging in,is that I do not have a good water source  anywhere near my house or food source for that matter and my relatives place that I would go to if I bugged out is good to go with a food supply,water supply and actual water sources and food sources(they also prep). Problem lies in bugging out I will no doubt end up having to pass through more populated areas, my pack is pretty light as I keep majority of my gear at my bug out destination and only have my pack loaded with the essentials I see fit to get me to that destination. I figure if something were to ever happen to where I had to bug out and roadways were not driveable it would be better to get on the move immediately rather than wait it out for any amount of time, reason being in my mind as soon as such an event occurs I would figure most people would still be in shock in the beginning and less likely to harm someone else at that point in time as they would say a week after such an event.

[East_TN_Patriot]

To the original question, I think the traditional symbols and gestures will be sufficient.  I am not one who believes that the majority of society's members will immediately turn aggressive and predatory.  Most will be like most of us: nice, honest, and fair.  We'll be scared and not looking for trouble, but cautious.  If someone verbalizes that they mean no harm and/or use common hand gestures like hands in the air, I will deal with them appropriately.  Ultimately it will be their actions that drive my response.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I'm not imaginative to think how it would be, or to think like a criminal. Was the other day reading a fairly good post-nuke-war SF story, written in the 1950's. There were lots of them. In that story, if a bad guy wanted to get close to a stranger and do violence, the standard approach method was to come up with submissive, supplicating gestures, with a line like, "Help me mister! My wife is real sick a mile down thataway!" and keep edging forward "submissive begging" until close enough to attack. So if real criminals are smart enough to think thataway, how do you tell the diff between a hijacker and somebody really in trouble?

Edited January 5, 2013 by Lester Weevils

[war4peace]

In the event of a SHTF situation, it would be most beneficial to assume that people are NOT your friends. Keep in mind that there is a high probability that they feel the same way that you do. That is, they are more concerned with their own well being as opposed to yours. They, too, have family members and loved ones to consider and protect. 

 

If you are unfortunate enough to be stuck in a populous city when SHTF, it would be best to stay put for the immediate time following such an event. Like others have pointed out above, the roads and streets will most likely be congested with other people trying to escape the city. This could be a hazard in itself. You could be exposing yourself and your family to whatever pandemonium might exist on the road. This may include but is not limited to riots, stampedes, pillaging, etc. 

 

It might be wise to "bug in" and plan your 'bug out' exit strategy accordingly. If you do plan on leaving the city, it's best to travel on paths less taken by others. It would be wise to get a map of the area that you are located in and plan out different exit routes. These routes may include sewage lines, creeks, ditches, canals, railroad, etc. A good place to obtain these maps would be the local libraries. During the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, the libraries in the cities were one of the FEW places left UNLOOTED. There's a wealth of information to be found there. 

 

As you are displacing, its best to travel during the night. Always assume that you are being under observations and try to leave as small a footprint as possible -that is don't make too much noise, try not to have your flashlight on too often (this may give your location to others), and try to avoid contact with others unless you haven't any other options. 

 

If you are unfortunate enough to encounter other people, always stay on your guard. Be wary of those asking for help(as this may very well be an ambush), be wary of helping others (this may strain your resources), and if you encroach upon others as you are passing and they spot you first before you spot them, try not to be provocative and use your best judgement for the situation. Perhaps gesture that you mean harm and communicate that you aren't looking for any problems and are just trying to pass through.

Edited January 8, 2013 by war4peace

[peejman]

 Great input everyone much appreciated, I live in a somewhat rural area and own roughly 30 acres of land that connects to my neighbors who own a couple hundred acres. My problem with bugging in,is that I do not have a good water source  anywhere near my house or food source for that matter and my relatives place that I would go to if I bugged out is good to go with a food supply,water supply and actual water sources and food sources(they also prep). Problem lies in bugging out I will no doubt end up having to pass through more populated areas, my pack is pretty light as I keep majority of my gear at my bug out destination and only have my pack loaded with the essentials I see fit to get me to that destination. I figure if something were to ever happen to where I had to bug out and roadways were not driveable it would be better to get on the move immediately rather than wait it out for any amount of time, reason being in my mind as soon as such an event occurs I would figure most people would still be in shock in the beginning and less likely to harm someone else at that point in time as they would say a week after such an event.

 

 

Water - learn to build a solar still.  A couple of them will yield an adequate water supply.  Add a few rain barrels and you're golden.  Food - learn to garden and can.  Hunt (or even raise) small critters for meat.  With 30 acres, I'd say you're in good shape. 

[JAB]

Leaving my home would be my last resort in a bad situation.  Bugging in sounds a lot better, to me.  Therefore I haven't given a lot of thought/preparation to bugging out.  However, I did have a couple of thoughts on your quandry.

 

Just curious but why are you thinking that your only choices are to travel by highway or hoof it cross country?  Why not combine the two, if necessary?  I mean, most interstates and major highways have some sort of 'right of way' alongside them.  By walking along that right of way, or close to it, you'd still be able to use the road to guide your way, you'd be able to take advantage of ground that is likely more level/cleared than the surrounding countryside and you would mostly avoid traipsing across someone else's private property.  Heck, for that matter on much of the interstate you could walk right down the median.  The downside to that, of course, would be that you'd still probably have to interact with all the other folks who had gotten stuck in the traffic jam and, ultimately, keep a group of them from following you to your bug out location.

 

Another thought might be to try, ahead of time (like now) to identify secondary roads and 'back' roads that will get you to your destination.  If such a route exists, I would think it would be less likely to become clogged with traffic.  If the way does become clogged, though, you still have the option of walking along the side of the road - again letting you take advantage of more leveled/cleared ground while avoiding private property.  Stray dogs, etc. might be a little more of a concern along such a route but that shouldn't be too bad, at least at first.  There would probably be fewer two-legged strays.

Edited January 8, 2013 by JAB

[Jonnin]

hole up at home already.  Spend that first month right where you are, living off your supplies, while the sheep run around dying and the give the wolves time to get bored. 

 

As others said, avoid others at all costs, move where you can find cover. 

 

The nicest person will kill you for food after they have been without for a few days, count on it.

[RichardR]

No one will survive very long without cooperating with other "survivors".

Bandits will be bandits, but I honestly believe that the majority of folks will still be looking to scatch out an honest living, even if it is a meager one.

[Dennis1209]

That was a good question, in fact, that's why I bought this place in the country, to bug in. I can't think of to many things that would force me to bug out, radio active cloud would probably be one, my 60 year old wife telling me she's pregnant again might be another?

 

Like was suggested in previous post, you would be most likely better off to bug in and avoid the clogged highways and associated dangers of a panicked / criminal society.

 

Speaking only for myself and my attitude on a SHTF event, and it will eventually happen... I'm not a hostile person and don't want to be, I'm very charitable and friendly, however... During adverse times where you and your family are at high risk of death, injury or being plundered, you protect yourself, your family and property at all costs, period.

 

I myself would have no way of knowing you are a good guy and mean no ill. I'd have to treat every stranger as a potential and probable deadly threat and be on the offense.

 

I posted an article on here some time ago dealing with a minor two week electrical power outage, and how even your own neighbors change when you have and they have not. By helping out my neighbors I was almost out of everything myself in just a short two week period. I was prepared for myself & family, not the whole subdivision.

 

Ever heard the term "squatters"? They were not well received in the olden days nor now.

 

If I had to evacuate an urban area I'd have a good plan, such as; using a bicycle w/ tow cart, atv w/ tow cart, dune buggy w/ cart, you get the idea. Then stick to the highway easement or anyway around any traffic passing through as fast as I could. I would look for waterways and waterway easement and public land, railroad tracks, etc. to travel during dangerous times. IMO, people will not be hesitant to dispatch what they perceive as a threat on their property.

 

Like anyone else, I could be totally off base with my assumptions, but... History and human nature are some pretty powerful guides to go by.

 

My crystal ball, Tara cards and chicken bones all agree, best get prepared and have a good plan  :wave:

[Viracnis]

To answer your question - a wave and a point (in the direction I'm headed) would be my go-to.  Smiling friendly-like probably couldn't hurt either.  Just a wave to say "Hey, I'm friendly!" and a point to say "I'm going that way, not bugging you mister!" and if they look unhappy about that, I'd probably hold up both hands and go verbal - "Hey buddy, I'm just passing through.  Must have gotten turned around.  You mind if I keep heading that way?"

 

As a younger adult (late teens, early twenties) I used to do a lot of hiking and camping in the hills behind my parent's house.  If I stumbled out of the woods into a farm or somebody's back yard (met the drummer to Diamond Rio that way!) I'd employ the wave-point shrug tactic.  99% of the time they'd laugh and wave me on.  Occasionally I'd get a "Boy, you must be REAL lost." A polite reply of "Yes, I sure am.  Maybe I better backtrack!" and an about-face kept me alive this long, so it must be valid - right?

 

Worked then, I figure it'll work come SHTF.  Keeping your gun pointed at the ground or slung low with your booger hook off the bang switch will probably also help.

 

I agree with those saying to Bug-In given your situation, though.  Pack away as much food and water as you can now to Bug-In until the supplies dwindle - THEN make the 80-mile treck when there's less folks Bug-ing to compete with for resources.  I figure most of the idiots will have killed themselves inside of 3 months.

[Dennis1209]

To answer your question - a wave and a point (in the direction I'm headed) would be my go-to.  Smiling friendly-like probably couldn't hurt either.  Just a wave to say "Hey, I'm friendly!" and a point to say "I'm going that way, not bugging you mister!" and if they look unhappy about that, I'd probably hold up both hands and go verbal - "Hey buddy, I'm just passing through.  Must have gotten turned around.  You mind if I keep heading that way?"

 

As a younger adult (late teens, early twenties) I used to do a lot of hiking and camping in the hills behind my parent's house.  If I stumbled out of the woods into a farm or somebody's back yard (met the drummer to Diamond Rio that way!) I'd employ the wave-point shrug tactic.  99% of the time they'd laugh and wave me on.  Occasionally I'd get a "Boy, you must be REAL lost." A polite reply of "Yes, I sure am.  Maybe I better backtrack!" and an about-face kept me alive this long, so it must be valid - right?

 

Worked then, I figure it'll work come SHTF.  Keeping your gun pointed at the ground or slung low with your booger hook off the bang switch will probably also help.

 

I agree with those saying to Bug-In given your situation, though.  Pack away as much food and water as you can now to Bug-In until the supplies dwindle - THEN make the 80-mile treck when there's less folks Bug-ing to compete with for resources.  I figure most of the idiots will have killed themselves inside of 3 months.

 

A lot of assumptions and unknowns. Is it day or night and can the property owner even identify your pleasantries or mistake them as flouting or hostel? Did the property owner have a hostile encounter just yesterday? Are he / she / they tired of the constant urination, feces, litter, camping, cutting trees / firewood, etc. on their property and want to send a message and stop it?

 

Expect the worse and don't assume anything be my advice.

 

Next interesting question is... You suspect your on private property spending the night or what-ever, someone starts to shoot at you or maybe in your general direction. Being prepared and armed as a good prepper always is, do you shoot back, run or what?

 

So many what ifs!