unarmed assault?

[robbiev]

I would say that you could win a losing battle without deadly force. Even if you had to use a stick, or a 2x4!

If you beat somebody up with a 2x4, that would be deadly force.

[Guest Tommy Ferguson Jr.]

My 2c...

One thing to consider is disparity of force. One poster said he thought he could win any fight with his two fists (or something like that). Are we talking about a fight or self-defense? If you willingly engage in a fistfight/MMA match and start to lose, can you then pull your smokewagon and claim "self defense!"? (Probably not) If someone is assaulting with their fists, feet, knees and elbows, and you've tried to avoid the situation, can you use deadly force to defend yourself? (Maybe)

Can you articulate a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury? If he/she knocks you out, will they stop then? What if they find your gun on your unconscious body? Can you fight three people? These will be the things the police/DA/jury will have weeks and months to decide. Remember the Nike Tactical retreat as an option (running away).

[Marswolf]

Remember the Nike Tactical retreat as an option (running away).

That's always a useful consideration. I seem to do better talking my way out of confrontations than running.

[towerclimber37]

Current health situation would make hand to hand combat a death sentence for me. Heart rate goes way up defibrillator starts firing(took 6 hits about a year ago from this thing) motor control is gone after hit one. So For me the gun would be one of my only options. Want my lawyer, was in fear of my life, think you better get me to the hospital. Hope it works out in my favor in court. 4 or 5 years ago broken knee cap, ruptured spleen, crushed larynx, but this could also end up with me at trail, due to past military history. Avoidance of bad situations is your best defense when and if possible.

This is an excellent topic to discuss

Jackdog, You sure you wouldn't want the forum name "Lucky"?

[Guest JCE]

Here's a case that was discussed in the class when I took the CCW course

http://www.haroldfishdefense.org/

[Marswolf]

The Harold Fish case was pretty ridiculous. OTOH, that web page is pretty far out. A judge is never going to let you talk about jury nullification.

That doesn't mean it isn't done. I once sat as foreman on a jury that essentially did that.

[towerclimber37]

I have been in various fisticuffs since I was in the army as a young man...for some reason I look like that "dumb redneck" that everyone thinks they can whip.

Usually I blocked all their blows with my face or with my ribs.

I'm older now though, and I look more like one of those fellas thats "been over the mountain to get the coon"...so now guys really don't bother me unless they're just stupid or looking for trouble...easily avoided.

I can honestly say that the last time I had to defend myself was 2 years ago when I was quartered with a ground hand..(thats a non climbing tower worker) who decided to go get drunk one night...he's a mean drunk...and at 1:30 in the morning he came in the hotel and woke me up with a rant about how nobody puts their hands on him..and then he pushed me and SLAPPED me in the face...

Dotsun..If I understand your avatar correctly you're a woman?

well..being slapped by a woman is one thing..but for one man to slap another...thats about as bad an insult as one fella can give another.

Being NOT DRUNK, and being very angry..I punched him in the throat and then put my elbow into his cheekbone and opened a cut that went from his orbital rim all the way down past his cheek. He didn't want to fight after that..he was too busy trying to stop the blood and to put his face back together.

The next day I told my boss that if He didn't fire him, he was happy to give me a bus ticket..(we were working in west palm beach florida).

that guy was fired and sent home.

gentlemen and ladies, if you have to punch someone in the head...aim for the neck..either the sides (which will disorient them and take their equilibrium) or in the throat which will cause their windpipe to "seize" and constrict..once you take their air..there will be NO more fight in them.

dont punch them in the mouth...I learned that the hard way (the above advice was from my family doctor btw...and came out in a conversation when he asked me what damnfoolway did I get my hand swollen up to the size of a cantaloupe???"..it was from an infection when the guys' tooth cut my knuckle..

if you're really strong...punch them in the shortribs and try to break one to collapse a lung.

or if you're like Jackdog...shootem!

I myself don't LIKE to fight...even if I win I lose because it hurts so dang much the next day...I'd rather give in, let them feel good about themselves and go about my business.

but if you absolutely HAVE to fight..learn techniques that will end the fight quickly...for someone who is trained against an untrained opponent....the fight will end in seconds.

the REAL fight is when you get 2 trained opponents..or two untrained opponents.

Just like with pistols and rifles...training counts!!!!!!

[towerclimber37]

case in point?

http://www.filecabi.net/v/file/pimpslap/wmv

[Guest dotsun]

Dotsun..If I understand your avatar correctly you're a woman?

Ok, I guess I need to change my avatar. LOL I'm of the male persuasion and stole the pic of the hot shooting chick from the pact website.

I agree completely about the learning to fight part, I'm a black belt in isshinryu and practice jujitsu so I'd like to think I have that covered. At the same time, I also realize that someone considerably bigger and/or stronger then me would pose a difficult fight depending on their training/background.

[Guest JCE]

I usually carry pepper spray, nice to have another level between

my fists and my Glock....

Of course like a dummy I left it in the house at the time of the pitbull incident...

[Marswolf]

I keep pepper spray in the car, but not on me. Something to grab in case the situation looks like it might warrant something less than a handgun.

For a pit bull, I'd use the gun.

[molonlabetn]

Yeah... pepper-spray would just give your leg a spicy taste, from the pit-bull's perspective.

[Guest jackdog]

Lucky? Da I don't think so. But I have been in court twice for fighting, both times were self defense situations, and both times the assailant and assailants in case # 2 went to the local Hospital for treatment. Incident #2 was me against three guys, and I evened my odds with a car radio antenna, and that gents makes a very handy weapon on short notice. I was found not guilty both times but still had to contend with the legal BS and expense. In both cases my military record was brought into play by the prosecutors. Let's see serve your country and then defend your training, gosh I love America. It does appear to me that legislators and the courts are starting to lean more to-wards the attacked party rather than the scum bags, but hey you never know. Pit bull, he catches a couple of rounds period.

[saintsfanbrian]

I agree completely about the learning to fight part, I'm a black belt in isshinryu and practice jujitsu so I'd like to think I have that covered. At the same time, I also realize that someone considerably bigger and/or stronger then me would pose a difficult fight depending on their training/background.

With this knowledge, a prosecuting attorney could whip the jury into a frenzy that you had many other options other than firing a bullet. I am not saying that you would go to jail, BUT if you are hands on with another person and have this type of training, I would think it would be better to leave the pistol alone until an absolute LAST option.