Report from "DHS Insider"

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Wow. I dont know where to begin. Is it really that hard for people to accept that people in power really are that corrupt? How many of you would call the bullshit card on Fast n Furious if it wasnt out in the open or on fox news for the brief time it was? Most of you guys prolly would. A rogue administration has no boundaries. Hows that hard to see? I cant prove this article to be truth, but what I can do is base my thoughts on the article on past, recent events that involves our corrupt government, and make a somewhat accurate judgement on how they are willing to go. I see too many people putting their faith in a failed system and seem to think that nothing like Soviet Russia could happen here. I disagree. Our congress has done nothing when Panetta committed treason and told them that they dont need congressional approval for using military action. Congress has done nothing to hold anyone accountable for FnF. Our supreme court upheld obama care, even after more than half the country was against it. DHS buys over a billion rounds and nobody questions it. Thats more than the military has used in the past few years while at war, outside the US. I feel that the people should be questioning what they are doing, on every level since its our money they are using. If Im a nut for showing concern for our current crash course, and questioning our governments ability to govern, then so be it. The saying history repeats itself is a known saying for a reason. It usually does. But whatever...

 

I don't have opinion on the factuality of this story. There is "chicken little the sky is falling" credulity on one hand, versus a Baghdad Bob normalcy bias/denial on the other. Both extremes can get you into trouble.

 

Two Baghdad Bob arguments which seem weak, perhaps weak enough to be mere wishful thinking--

1. Americans would never follow tyrannical orders.

2. Though our leaders tend to be sociopathic scumbags, luckily our sociopathic scumbags are REAL SMART. Fearless Leader has good enough judgement to avoid giving tyrannical orders because he knows such action would ultimately put at risk Fearless Leader's own precious skin.

 

Regarding argument two-- Hopefully our sociopathic scumbag leaders have judgement equally limitless as their own self-esteem. On the other hand, I don't know if our politicians are especially wise or cunning. In fact they rarely show evidence of good judgement.

 

Regarding argument one-- I would not wager money against the majority of officials following tyrannical orders, regardless whether officials agree with the orders. I would hope people would refuse tyrannical orders but wouldn't bet on it. Ferinstance, modern paranoics often mention the Milgram Experiments. But that doesn't mean the Milgram Experiments were dumb. When I took social psychology back about 1971, it was generally estimated that the Milgrim Authority Experiments were about the bestest social psych experimental psychology ever. They are to this day held in high regard, though they also triggered changes in "ethical rules" for psych experiments and it is not considered ethical to do that kind of experiment any more.

 

One must be careful to avoid generalizing psych experiments (or any other kind of scientific experiment). Especially in psych, there are so many variables that it is unsafe to assume that an experiment can predict what might happen in changed circumstances. You would have to change the circumstances and run a new changed experiment to find out. Many people succumb to over-generalization of experimental findings, with inadequate evidence to support such generalization.

 

That said, Milgram repeated his work in various settings and on various populations and his work was also replicated by others before it was judged too unethical to continue. It is fair evidence that ordinary people will do horrible acts if an authority figure asks them to do it "in just the right way."

 

This is a 1 hour documentary about various social psych experiments re authoritarianism, and Milgram's work is covered in the first 10 minutes. Some of the perfessors in this documentary are guilty of over-generalization, but if you never heard about this, the topic deserves a bit of study, to have a better more realistic assessment of what ordinary people are capable of, if requested to do it in just the right way by an authority figure. "I don't really want to seize your guns, but boss Janet Napolitano said I have to, and she said she would assume all responsibility for the action so it is not my call."

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YUMxsj6rl4

[GlockSpock]

Articles such as that to which the OP linked to are between a rock and a hard place. Just because they cannot be proven true doe not mean that they aren't true, but just because they cannot be proven false does not mean that they aren't false. I feel that many articles such as this are based some on facts, some on what is believed by the author to be facts, and some on fiction. 

 

Many years ago, it is my understanding that one (possibly more) men tried to warn the world about what the Nazis were up to. I believe one such man was Jan Karski. If someone in a modern day country tried to warn others of something that was going to happen, it'd be near impossible to get anyone to truly believe them. Some things you just have to wait and see I suppose. Since we cannot verify a single thing about the "Insider", the next best thing we can do is take a look at Douglas Hagmann. This article wasn't originally on that Canadian site. Hagmann has his own website here.

 

If it were to turn out that Hagmann was generally a very trustworthy reporter/writer, then that adds + to the linked to article. If he generally isn't trustworthy, that adds - to the linked to article. But even if he is the ++++iest person in the world, he is assuming that the alleged "Insider" is who he claims to be and that he even has a clue what is going on.

 

Sorta like how every gunshop owner has met hundreds of special forces snipers.

 

My main comment on the story is this: I really hope that there is no credibility at all to the story, but for all I know it could be true or it could be false. That is all I know.

[Guest Sysvr4]

The good news is, based on the timeline in the article, we need only wait until spring 2013 to find out who's right.  I'll lay 100 rounds of .45 ACP against 100 rounds of 9mm that by that time the tinfoilery evident in this article is thoroughly debunked...

[Links2k]

Wait, there are Nazi concentration camps on Mars? Sh**!

That's old news. Where the hell have you been?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Wait, there are Nazi concentration camps on Mars? Sh**!

Not too much of a stretch. Heinlein had a Nazi base camp on the moon in one of his novels. :D

[strickj]

Why do you think Pluto is no longer a planet?

 

That's where they stick the dead bodies from the Mars concentration camps.

 

And if you think that's mind blowing....

Just like how Superman obtained his powers from Krypton, Obama get's it's powers from Uranus.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Would that be the five year plan from the 60's, or about 50 years ago?

I don't doubt that there's people thinking this way in government; I just believe it would have an ice cube's chance in hell of ever working.

Yep!

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Why do you think Pluto is no longer a planet?

 

That's where they stick the dead bodies from the Mars concentration camps.

 

And if you think that's mind blowing....

Just like how Superman obtained his powers from Krypton, Obama get's it's powers from Uranus.

Not my anus. :D