At wits end with my dog, any suggestions?

[10-Ring]

I have a 6 1/2 year old Benchleg Fiest that I have had since he was a pup.  He has always been very well behaved sans chewing everything up as a pup which he outgrew.  He is very protective of me which has never been a problem until recently.  I recently got married and acquired a 3 year old step daughter.  The dog does not like her.  He will lay on the couch with me and if she approaches he will start growling at her and even snapping at her, though he has not yet bit her.  He has done the same if she makes loud noises in his immediate area.  The dogs overall temperament has seemed to change since the move as well.  He went from a large fenced in yard to a small kennel.  I walk him everyday and let him spend most of the day in the house with us so he is not cooped up all of the time.  Anyone have any suggestions as to how I can help him accept her before my wife kills us both?

[Caster]

I'm sure you love the dog so I understand you will NOT like my solution, but a training collar works. I had to use it on mine. I bout one with different levels to it. One through eight. I shocked myself on six and swore I'd never do that to him, and never did. I never used it above four. The collar is now junk and here's why. I used it for a few months periodically, keeping it well charged. His behavior changed fast. I mean really fast. So, I quit charging it, when he'd misbehave I'd get the collar and shake it at him using a reprimanding tone in my voice. He'd go gettin his dog house and I wouldn't see him for an hour. I stopped actually putting it on him. I can get ANY orange collar and show it to him without saying a word and he will go lay down somewhere and not show his face for a time. Now, I can't tell,you where the charger or the remote is because I have lost them. I don't need them. I don't really need the collar for that matter but I can show it to him when he gets rowdy and I can hear him saying, "you know, I got something else to do over there and I'm going to go do it, if you need me just call, bye bye!" I NEVER enjoyed making him ride the lightning but it works. If you really love the dog, use it on your arm before you use it on him and I will guarantee you will never abuse the power.

[LI0NSFAN]

I'm sure you love the dog so I understand you will NOT like my solution, but a training collar works. I had to use it on mine. I bout one with different levels to it. One through eight. I shocked myself on six and swore I'd never do that to him, and never did. I never used it above four. The collar is now junk and here's why. I used it for a few months periodically, keeping it well charged. His behavior changed fast. I mean really fast. So, I quit charging it, when he'd misbehave I'd get the collar and shake it at him using a reprimanding tone in my voice. He'd go gettin his dog house and I wouldn't see him for an hour. I stopped actually putting it on him. I can get ANY orange collar and show it to him without saying a word and he will go lay down somewhere and not show his face for a time. Now, I can't tell,you where the charger or the remote is because I have lost them. I don't need them. I don't really need the collar for that matter but I can show it to him when he gets rowdy and I can hear him saying, "you know, I got something else to do over there and I'm going to go do it, if you need me just call, bye bye!" I NEVER enjoyed making him ride the lightning but it works. If you really love the dog, use it on your arm before you use it on him and I will guarantee you will never abuse the power.

+1 I totally agree, test it on your arm to make sure you don't abuse the power. 

[GlockSpock]

 I shocked myself on six and swore I'd never do that to him, and never did.

Searching Youtube for "shock collar on human" can provide loads of entertainment!

 

So Caster...tell us which of those videos are you!

[LI0NSFAN]

Searching Youtube for "shock collar on human" can provide loads of entertainment!

 

So Caster...tell us which of those videos are you!

doing it on the arm hurts but you don't look like a fool trying it. I would NEVER put it on the neck, you could mess yourself up.

[TN-popo]

I would NEVER put it on the neck, you could mess yourself up.

 

I have.  Yes, alcohol and other cops were involved...

 

Anyway, +1 to Caster's suggestion (from personal experience).

The power level used will be dependant on the dog and don't use it on wet grass.

 

I used it on 2 of my 3 Weimaraners (smart, but hard-headed suckers) with great success.

Edited December 27, 2012 by TN-popo

[E4 No More]

I'm not familiar with the breed, but I have had years of experience with Rottweilers. There is a group of monks in upstate New York who specifically breed and train Belgian Shepards, and they have a book about understanding and training large breed dogs which I read a long time ago. As I'm sure you understand, dogs are pack animals making it important to maintain alpha status particularly with a large dog. The dog is asserting and maintaining dominance in the pack order. You, as the alpha, need to let him know that he's the lowest member of the pack. Every little sign of aggression from the dog to any other family member should be met immediately with a response from you, and that response should be to roll him on his back and then growl at him him with teeth bared until he submits. Submitting is when the dog stops struggling and somewhat relaxes. That's a lot harder to do with a fully grown Rotty, but from the Google pictures of your breed it shouldn't be too hard. I just have to glare at my dog and it gets his attention. I do other things to maintain dominance as well such as never letting him win at a tugging game, or letting him walk in front of me on a leash. The shock collar isn't a good play IMHO. As Caster said, it gets a response, but is it the response that you want? What happens when you aren't there to shock him or show the collar?

[TN-popo]

I'm not familiar with the breed, but I have had years of experience with Rottweilers. There is a group of monks in upstate New York who specifically breed and train Belgian Shepards, and they have a book about understanding and training large breed dogs which I read a long time ago. As I'm sure you understand, dogs are pack animals making it important to maintain alpha status particularly with a large dog. The dog is asserting and maintaining dominance in the pack order. You, as the alpha, need to let him know that he's the lowest member of the pack. Every little sign of aggression from the dog to any other family member should be met immediately with a response from you, and that response should be to roll him on his back and then growl at him him with teeth bared until he submits. Submitting is when the dog stops struggling and somewhat relaxes. That's a lot harder to do with a fully grown Rotty, but from the Google pictures of your breed it shouldn't be too hard. I just have to glare at my dog and it gets his attention. I do other things to maintain dominance as well such as never letting him win at a tugging game, or letting him walk in front of me on a leash. The shock collar isn't a good play IMHO. As Caster said, it gets a response, but is it the response that you want? What happens when you aren't there to shock him or show the collar?

 

Although we disagree on shock collar usage, this is also very excellent advice.

I learned about "dominance down" from my wife...the dog trainer of the family.  It works like a charm at establishing the "Alpha."

 

PS. Don't try this on said wife. 

I still have the scars...  :mellow:

 

Anyway, we use "dominance down" for hierarchy issues and the collar for other behavior issues (barking, heeling, etc).

Edited December 27, 2012 by TN-popo

[gnmwilliams]

I have.  Yes, alcohol and other cops were involved...

 

Anyway, +1 to Caster's suggestion (from personal experience).

The power level used will be dependant on the dog and don't use it on wet grass.

 

I used it on 2 of my 3 Weimaraners (smart, but hard-headed suckers) with great success.

Man, Ain't that the truth. Mine acts like a crackhead sometimes but I still love him. He actually settled down when we brought the baby home so I guess every dog's different. I am now going to search youtube for shock collars on humans. Bye!

Edited December 27, 2012 by gnmwilliams

[Chris]

I'm not familiar with the breed, but I have had years of experience with Rottweilers. There is a group of monks in upstate New York who specifically breed and train Belgian Shepards, and they have a book about understanding and training large breed dogs which I read a long time ago. As I'm sure you understand, dogs are pack animals making it important to maintain alpha status particularly with a large dog. The dog is asserting and maintaining dominance in the pack order. You, as the alpha, need to let him know that he's the lowest member of the pack. Every little sign of aggression from the dog to any other family member should be met immediately with a response from you, and that response should be to roll him on his back and then growl at him him with teeth bared until he submits. Submitting is when the dog stops struggling and somewhat relaxes. That's a lot harder to do with a fully grown Rotty, but from the Google pictures of your breed it shouldn't be too hard. I just have to glare at my dog and it gets his attention. I do other things to maintain dominance as well such as never letting him win at a tugging game, or letting him walk in front of me on a leash. The shock collar isn't a good play IMHO. As Caster said, it gets a response, but is it the response that you want? What happens when you aren't there to shock him or show the collar?

This is exactly right in my experience. Once the dog learns his place in relation to the new pack member things should settle down.

[jgradyc]

I suggest you call your vet and ask for recommendations or the name of a good trainer. The little dog is just being protective or possessive, but a three year old isn't going to understand that and will most likely eventually get bit. Since little kids tend to get into dogs' faces, she could be hurt badly or scarred for life. This is serious stuff. Ask a professional trainer, seriously.

I'm not sure about the shock collar advice. My shock collar manual says don't use it on a dog that is being defensive or aggressive. I use it when my dog doesn't heel properly when we are walking.

Most shock collars come with two options: a shock and a beep. You beep the dog first and then shock only if the dog continues the behavior. After a couple of shocks, the beep is enough to get him to come to me immediately. I also tested it in my hand before putting it on the dog. A "3" elicited a buzzing sensation, a "4" was a nasty shock, and a "5" was very painful. I haven't had to actually shock him in a couple of years. The beep gets his attention and an immediate reaction. I primarily use it to make sure he doesn't chase a rabbit onto the nearby road when we're out together.

Edited December 27, 2012 by jgradyc

[10-Ring]

I'm not familiar with the breed, but I have had years of experience with Rottweilers. There is a group of monks in upstate New York who specifically breed and train Belgian Shepards, and they have a book about understanding and training large breed dogs which I read a long time ago. As I'm sure you understand, dogs are pack animals making it important to maintain alpha status particularly with a large dog. The dog is asserting and maintaining dominance in the pack order. You, as the alpha, need to let him know that he's the lowest member of the pack. Every little sign of aggression from the dog to any other family member should be met immediately with a response from you, and that response should be to roll him on his back and then growl at him him with teeth bared until he submits. Submitting is when the dog stops struggling and somewhat relaxes. That's a lot harder to do with a fully grown Rotty, but from the Google pictures of your breed it shouldn't be too hard. I just have to glare at my dog and it gets his attention. I do other things to maintain dominance as well such as never letting him win at a tugging game, or letting him walk in front of me on a leash. The shock collar isn't a good play IMHO. As Caster said, it gets a response, but is it the response that you want? What happens when you aren't there to shock him or show the collar?

 

 

I like this a lot.  I will be trying it.  Hopefully this will work, if not it might be time to get a shock collar.  I have no qualms using a shock collar properly as a last resort. 

[Guest FiddleDog]

Consider checking out Cesar Milan. He has a number of episodes in while pack order establishment with children are the focus. You should be able to find the dog whisperer DVDs at the local library. I used a lot of the principals on both my dogs when raising them and I swear by them.

[wewoapsiak]

The "alpha dog theory" was thought up in the 40s and is highly debatable / mostly debunked. Most animal experts contend that positive reinforcement and leading by example gain quicker and better results, and a lot of alpha training is just downright cruel. A lot of millan's methods are based on getting the owners mindset right, ie this is a dog and not a child, and positive reinforcement; his rolls and "pssts" are not. That being said, I use mostly positive reinforcement with the occasional "psst" to break up her concentration because my ridgeback is a bit dense sometimes. And for the record I've read two of millan's books, I own his (5?) DVD set, and I watched him religiously for a good two years. So I am very familiar with his work. If you can afford it, enroll your dog in a training class at Petsmart and take your daughter with you. If not, do some training at home to exercise his mind along with the walks. Hell, give the dog a treat if she is around and he doesn't growl. If he does turn and ignore him and have fun with her. It sounds like he's went through some changes and is stressed. Just my long winded 2¢ Sent from my SPH-L710 using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2

[Jonnin]

there are pet shrinks too, mkay?  The little guy has been through a lot of stress: new people, new home, excitement and confusion and such.  For a few hundred bucks an hour, someone can talk to him about these issues.   It probably won't work but you can feel good about yourself for trying or something :)

 

Kidding aside, he has been through a lot of stress, has it been long enough that he should start to settle in?  My totally unexpert opinion is if he needs time, shocks and such might make it worse.  If he has had a few weeks,  it may be time to try those sorts of things.

[E4 No More]

The "alpha dog theory" was thought up in the 40s and is highly debatable / mostly debunked. Most animal experts contend that positive reinforcement and leading by example gain quicker and better results, and a lot of alpha training is just downright cruel. A lot of millan's methods are based on getting the owners mindset right, ie this is a dog and not a child, and positive reinforcement; his rolls and "pssts" are not. That being said, I use mostly positive reinforcement with the occasional "psst" to break up her concentration because my ridgeback is a bit dense sometimes. And for the record I've read two of millan's books, I own his (5?) DVD set, and I watched him religiously for a good two years. So I am very familiar with his work.If you can afford it, enroll your dog in a training class at Petsmart and take your daughter with you. If not, do some training at home to exercise his mind along with the walks. Hell, give the dog a treat if she is around and he doesn't growl. If he does turn and ignore him and have fun with her. It sounds like he's went through some changes and is stressed.Just my long winded 2¢Sent from my SPH-L710 using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2

Ok, I'd like to know how what I described is cruel, because I take offense to the statement. I'd also like you to show me how something that I've successfully used for many years is debunked. I've also known a few PROFESSIONAL trainers that say Petsmart trainers are nothing but a bunch of kids that have been trained to be full of crap. I am in no stretch of the imagination a professional dog trainer, but I do know what's worked for me.

[wewoapsiak]

Ok, I'd like to know how what I described is cruel, because I take offense to the statement. I'd also like you to show me how something that I've successfully used for many years is debunked. I've also known a few PROFESSIONAL trainers that say Petsmart trainers are nothing but a bunch of kids that have been trained to be full of crap. I am in no stretch of the imagination a professional dog trainer, but I do know what's worked for me.

I'd like to know where I referred to you at all, let alone saying what you said was cruel.  If I didn't say anything about the correction collars, do you really think I care about what you said?  Honestly I didn't even read your post before I responded to the OP, I stopped at the monks part because it was a bit tl:dr.  I never once said anything about the quality petsmart trainers, you have to do your own research prior to choosing what to do and who to go to.  The OP is obviously having a hard time, so I can assume even the "kids that have been trained to be full of crap" couldn't hurt.  I'm sorry my post disagreed with your post, but why be offended when someone disagrees with your thoughts?  It's not like I called you a stupid meany poo poo head who beats your dogs, our opinions differ and that's it. 

 

For your reading pleasure, here is some information in regards to my statement that "The alpha dog theory was thought up in the 40s and is highly debatable / mostly debunked."  Note, I didn't say that the arcane methods would not work, I stated that the theory was debunked and "Most animal experts contend that positive reinforcement and leading by example gain quicker and better results, and a lot of alpha training is just downright cruel."

Dominance in domestic dogsduseful construct or bad habit? (Journal of Veterinary Behavior 2009)

AVSAB Position Statement (American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior 2007)

AVSAB Position Statement (American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior 2009)

And they go on, and on.

 

tl:dr

I didn't read your post, don't get offended by what I say.  Just keep on keeping on.

Edited December 27, 2012 by wewoapsiak

[TMF]

Don't use an ecollar for this... at least not as a primary corrective tool. That is for aversion training and obedience. I have an ecollar for my dog for emergency uses, but dogs have different titration levels, so zapping them for offenses (especially when they're being defensive) may not give you the results you're looking for. Not saying it wouldn't work, but there is the potential there to make the behavior toward your child worse. Dogs and kids are unpredictable. You have to train them both by getting them to understand what is acceptable and what isn't.

The correction should come from you, and it should come as a dominant. The Caesar Milan approach makes sense, but you might need to be more aggressive in your response of aggression toward your child in regard to holding the neck and exposing the belly.

Also, get your dog use to the kid petting it in a safe scenario. Have the dog positioned to where it can't nip the kid without you intervening. Not laying down though or in your lap. With mine, I have her standing up as I talk to her and stroke her as my daughter pets her sides and grabs on her. You have to make the dog comfortable with the kid. I have two dogs that are jungle gyms for my 3 and 1 year old. The third I'm working on as she has shown defensive behavior toward them. You just got to get the dog to a level of comfort, but do it safely and don't associate pain with interaction with the kids. It will take a long time. I'm still working on it, but my dog has come leaps and bounds in the past few months we've been doing this.

[pcrc11]

I had an issue with my dog over the summer and was forced to go to some obedience classes with her. After owning dogs my entire I scoffed at it and said no way I need obedience classes. Ended up being the best thing I ever did. Try to find a trainer that does the AKC Good Citizen Program. Also try a good pinch collar. Not a choke chain but a pinch collar. They look mid-evil but they work. My wife was dead set against it just by the way it looks, now she is the biggest proponent of them.

[TN-popo]

I had an issue with my dog over the summer and was forced to go to some obedience classes with her. After owning dogs my entire I scoffed at it and said no way I need obedience classes. Ended up being the best thing I ever did. Try to find a trainer that does the AKC Good Citizen Program. Also try a good pinch collar. Not a choke chain but a pinch collar. They look mid-evil but they work. My wife was dead set against it just by the way it looks, now she is the biggest proponent of them.

 

We call our pinch collars "powersteering."  :)

[Slpeod]

I'm not familiar with the breed, but I have had years of experience with Rottweilers. There is a group of monks in upstate New York who specifically breed and train Belgian Shepards, and they have a book about understanding and training large breed dogs which I read a long time ago. As I'm sure you understand, dogs are pack animals making it important to maintain alpha status particularly with a large dog. The dog is asserting and maintaining dominance in the pack order. You, as the alpha, need to let him know that he's the lowest member of the pack. Every little sign of aggression from the dog to any other family member should be met immediately with a response from you, and that response should be to roll him on his back and then growl at him him with teeth bared until he submits. Submitting is when the dog stops struggling and somewhat relaxes. That's a lot harder to do with a fully grown Rotty, but from the Google pictures of your breed it shouldn't be too hard. I just have to glare at my dog and it gets his attention. I do other things to maintain dominance as well such as never letting him win at a tugging game, or letting him walk in front of me on a leash. The shock collar isn't a good play IMHO. As Caster said, it gets a response, but is it the response that you want? What happens when you aren't there to shock him or show the collar?


I like this a lot. I will be trying it. Hopefully this will work, if not it might be time to get a shock collar. I have no qualms using a shock collar properly as a last resort.

If you are interested I have one you can borrow, I also no longer use it. My dogs ceased their activities in less than 1 month.

Pm me if you haven't already made the investment.

[xRUSTYx]

Associating a corrective shock collar and your step daughter is not the best approach in my opinion.

 

I don't necessarily believe the "Alpha Dog" theory, but you can definitely show/prove dominance.  We had to with my 160 lb Saint Bernard.  Within a week, he was the sweetest dog to everyone he knew.  I literally grappled with this dog on the floor over & over & over again for several days before he finally went submissive.  You need to get the dog in a submissive position/thinking prior to real corrective training.  The dog - albeit showing aggression towards your step daughter -- is simply showing dominance.  Proving/Showing that HE dominates YOU, and should the child get near, he will protect whats his -- which in this case, is you, his master.

 

Put the dog in his place.  Take him to the ground in a 100% submissive manner, and have your step daughter come and pet him with you literally straddling him upside down on the floor.  Its pretty amazing if done correctly.

Edited December 27, 2012 by xRUSTYx

[E4 No More]

I'd like to know where I referred to you at all, let alone saying what you said was cruel.  If I didn't say anything about the correction collars, do you really think I care about what you said?  Honestly I didn't even read your post before I responded to the OP, I stopped at the monks part because it was a bit tl:dr.  I never once said anything about the quality petsmart trainers, you have to do your own research prior to choosing what to do and who to go to.  The OP is obviously having a hard time, so I can assume even the "kids that have been trained to be full of crap" couldn't hurt.  I'm sorry my post disagreed with your post, but why be offended when someone disagrees with your thoughts?  It's not like I called you a stupid meany poo poo head who beats your dogs, our opinions differ and that's it. 
 
For your reading pleasure, here is some information in regards to my statement that "The alpha dog theory was thought up in the 40s and is highly debatable / mostly debunked."  Note, I didn't say that the arcane methods would not work, I stated that the theory was debunked and "Most animal experts contend that positive reinforcement and leading by example gain quicker and better results, and a lot of alpha training is just downright cruel."
Dominance in domestic dogsduseful construct or bad habit? (Journal of Veterinary Behavior 2009)
AVSAB Position Statement (American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior 2007)
AVSAB Position Statement (American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior 2009)
And they go on, and on.
 
tl:dr
I didn't read your post, don't get offended by what I say.  Just keep on keeping on.

I thought that you were referring to me because I was the one who brought up the alpha dog theory that I have used successfully, so when you started with, "The 'alpha dog theory' was thought up...is highly debatable / mostly debunked," and "...a lot of alpha training is just downright cruel" I saw that as an attack on me. :shrug: I've seen cruel, and it ain't me with dogs. Edited December 27, 2012 by SWJewellTN

[c.a.willard]

Feists can be extreamly stubborn dogs.  I own an american treeing feist and i love the little turd.  Alot of your dogs behavior may be more related to the move than to the 3 year old.  This breed can be very slow to grow accustomed to change, that does not mean that they cant deal with it it just takes some time.  As long as you have time to i suggest simpler means than pain based training.  Forced interaction with treats is a good way to start also a squirt bottle works as a good pain free method of coreective training.  The biggest thing is rewarding the good behavior.    I also would recommend avoiding small kennels as most terriors do not do well without room to move around.  Try switching him out into a large breed kennel.

[Guest CCI]

It's been "you and him", for six and a half years! "He's gone from his yard, to a small kennel", a new house and two new occupants (your wife and stepdaughter). Did you introduce him to the child? Did they interact prior to the move? His world has been turned upside down and he is confused as to what is going on. Plus he is probably being corrected for behavior he doesn't realize is wrong as it was you two for so long. You can go on line and look up his breed, contact them for any guidance or classes to "help" him with his confusion. Or you can contact rescue groups, they are on line also and they at times will provide the training for free so you will not have to give up a member of your family. Doing a "shock collar" isn't the answer. It will further confuse him, plus hurt him. People seem to have the misconception that a dog will readily accept any changes or people brought into their lives and should behave accordingly. Give him and your family a chance to adapt.