Buy a GM???

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Ford avoided the bailouts by lots of dumb luck. they restructured their long term debt just before the credit markets dried up. Having more favorable labor relations than GM helped, but had their debt restructuring been delayed it would have been much more expensive and possibly resulted in needing bailout money.


The BMW jab was just a joke, but I think you BMW drivers knew that ;)

Yeh, just messin wichya. But Ford's dunb luck changed when they got Alan Mullaly (sp?) away from Boeing. That Ford

guy was in over his head and knew it, or so the gossip went.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I am right winger, maybe far right, but when this was annoucned in 2009 about the bailout, I was not that sore.  Now at the time I understood the bailout was a loan, so it softened my view.  Now I understand that GM and Chrysler may never fully pay it back.  It burns me somewhat.  I am from the camp that I would have preferred for GM and Chrysler to have filed chapter 13 on their own, and restructured without the taxpayer money.  However, looking back that was a very slick move by the newly elected president and team, knowing that GM & Chrysler was flushed with likely democrate voters and its union was rewarded.  It burns me, but I have deeper concerns about our government than this, and as a individual, I can do nothing.  Just my single vote, and that didn't work last month. 

It's not like we had any choice in the matter, but the union bailout and the essentially "grants" made to GM were slick

and blatant. I see a lot of Chevy police cars around, now. There was a deal with the devil. Just more to the debt to

let us taxpayers. I'll never own one of those crony cars. Wouldn't have, anyway. GM has been pushing for grants for

everything for decades for everything on their cars. They have been living up to the name Government Motors since

before that election. I remember the Daylight Running Lights GM wanted a bailout for to put them on their cars. I don't

think Ford was into that one, either.

It's this stuff, plus a lot more, that's wrong with this country.

[RobertNashville]

I do not understand "The government did force comment", Honda built its first manufacturing plant in the U.S. in 1982 in Marysville, OH, as a business decision, not forced by anyone, and Toyota built its first plant in the U.S. in and around 1986 or 1987 in Georgetown, KY, again not forced by anyone.  The second comment, though I truly understand your sediment, but what is the difference of GM selling out to China, and a U.S. consumer selling out to buy product from China.   

The Federal Government, mostly at the behest of the auto unions, placed such large tariffs on foreign cars that it became much less expensive to build plants here; Honda was first followed by almost every major manufacturer.  And...they mostly came to right-to-work states meaning their labor was less expensive than the (former) "Big Three".

 

So...to protect the domestic auto industry (and the UAW); the government effectively drove a stake through their heart...a fine example of unintended consequences.

[RobertNashville]

My first car was a brand new 1973 Pontiac Formula 400 Firebird...my next three new vehicles was a '75 Olds Cutlas, a '76 Trans Am and a '79 Trans Am plus a few other trucks and cars, all GM in the mix...my last GM product was a '00 Z28.

 

I came from a "GM family"...that was all we drove, Chevy, Pontiac, Olds, and Cadillac...but I'll never, NEVER buy another GM product again...I'll walk or use my bicycle before I'll spend another dime with Government Motors and feel almost as strongly about Chrysler as well (but then I've never been a big Chrysler fan).

[RobertNashville]

Yeh, just messin wichya. But Ford's dunb luck changed when they got Alan Mullaly (sp?) away from Boeing. That Ford

guy was in over his head and knew it, or so the gossip went.

As a retiree of a major manufacturer (corporate finance); I can attest that it was not "luck".  I was paying attention then because it was my job to do so...Ford made some wise business decisions based on data that everyone could see but that Ford acted on.  GM's problem was that they were so far down the road to insolvency; after decades of poor financial and product decisions, that it was almost certainly too late for them even if they wanted to do what Ford did.

[willis68]

Bullshit they didn't, they still owe the govt billions.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2012/08/29/automakers-report-card-who-still-owes-taxpayers-money-the-answer-might-surprise-you/

Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk 2

Perhaps you should have read your link before calling BS, this has nothing to do with the bailout and bankruptcies


The Obama Administration, dreaming of a million electric cars on the road by 2015, loaned Ford the money to help it pay for development of hybrids and EVs, and to retool its factories to produce smaller, cleaner vehicles. While not characterized as a “bailout” by any means, let’s be honest: Ford’s loan – received at a critical time when other sources of financing weren’t available to automakers or their suppliers – no doubt helped the carmaker survive the industry crisis and contributed to its strong market position today, especially after the Obama Administration finalized tougher fuel economy rules this week.

[tnhawk]

My last GM products were Saturns.

[RobertNashville]

Perhaps you should have read your link before calling BS, this has nothing to do with the bailout and bankruptcies


The Obama Administration, dreaming of a million electric cars on the road by 2015, loaned Ford the money to help it pay for development of hybrids and EVs, and to retool its factories to produce smaller, cleaner vehicles. While not characterized as a “bailout” by any means, let’s be honest: Ford’s loan – received at a critical time when other sources of financing weren’t available to automakers or their suppliers – no doubt helped the carmaker survive the industry crisis and contributed to its strong market position today, especially after the Obama Administration finalized tougher fuel economy rules this week.

My company also received a loan for EV development and for building a brand new plant and re-tooling of a production line in Tennessee.  My company's loan has to be paid back with real money as I'm sure Ford's loans must be too.

My problem with GM goes far beyond the "bailout" money which may or may not be repaid (in whole or in part); it has a lot more to do with the so-called "bankruptcy" (which wasn't one) and the extremely favorable treatment for the UAW at the detriment to GM's shareholders and bondholders plus the Federal Government buying stock which it will not sell at a loss.  Of course, the fact that the stock is cheep should surprise no one given that the pretend bankruptcy solved NONE of GM's underlying problems that still exist today...I suspect it's only a matter of time before GM is back at the government feeding trough.
 

[Oh Shoot]

My mom's 2007 Buick LaCrosse has 16,000 miles on it (she drives a whopping 3K miles per year), power steering pump crapped out, trunk open receiver for remote has flaked out, air control buttons have surface flaked off, has irritating belt line whine right through the firewall, and some steering bushing or something in column makes an irritating zipper sound. Those off top of my head.

 

Also had several things fixed while it was still in warranty, forget what all.

 

Has a "big car" nice ride, though. :)

 

- OS

[Rightwinger]

I am right winger, maybe far right, but when this was annoucned in 2009 about the bailout, I was not that sore.  Now at the time I understood the bailout was a loan, so it softened my view.  Now I understand that GM and Chrysler may never fully pay it back.  It burns me somewhat.  I am from the camp that I would have preferred for GM and Chrysler to have filed chapter 13 on their own, and restructured without the taxpayer money.  However, looking back that was a very slick move by the newly elected president and team, knowing that GM & Chrysler was flushed with likely democrate voters and its union was rewarded.  It burns me, but I have deeper concerns about our government than this, and as a individual, I can do nothing.  Just my single vote, and that didn't work last month. 

 

No, you are A right winger, I am Rightwinger !  

 

I also work in a 3PL supporting both GM and Chrysler.  I can tell you now, even with the bailouts, they are crying cost cutting and savings to everyone in their supply streams and it's going to start resulting in more layoffs as companies like mine see the bottom of what GM is willing to pay vs what our costs are to support them.  Soon we will have to press them for rate increases or let the contracts expire.   I was always a GM/Chevy guy.  Still have my 03 Silverado in the driveway but when the wife needed a new car last year, we got a Ford.  Will probably be my next truck as well.

[runco]

No, you are A right winger, I am Rightwinger !  

 

So are you saying I will not win the spelling Bee?  That hurts my feelings

http://

[Rightwinger]

Keep crying.  You posted you were "right winger" and I corrected you that you are "a" right winger but I am this boards Rightwinger.  No spelling was called out, was pointing out you missed on what you were by stating who you were.  All clear as mud now? 

 

I am not Runco.

[runco]

Keep crying.  You posted you were "right winger" and I corrected you that you are "a" right winger but I am this boards Rightwinger.  No spelling was called out, was pointing out you missed on what you were by stating who you were.  All clear as mud now? 

 

I am not Runco.

I know your screen name is rightwinger, but any reference that I made to that word had nothing to do with you. Otherwise, I am confused as all get out.

[willis68]

I also drive a Ford, and this one will probably be my last. Seems Ford can't make paint that will stick to a  roof or hood. I've been a big Ford fan my entire adult life, However, I'm tired of driving around in a vehicle (that I have taken great care of) that's a big rust bucket. I can't wash the roof or hood because the paint just blows off.
 
Ford also bought and sold Volvo. Paid around 6 and sold it for under 2 bil. They raped the company for their R&D work while holding back advertising funds. I understand why people are upset with GM but I don't understand putting Ford on a pedistal. And very seldom does anyone say a word about Dodge. Chrysler has been bailed out twice I believe, correct? If there is a Dodge in my driveway...I have company! 

What model of Ford are you talking about the paint blowing off? Just out of curiousity I ask this because I have never had that problem or heard of it before.

I own both an SVT and a Lincoln so perhaps I am biased as I feel I have two of their best models. I do have several friends with regular model Fords that have nothing but praise for them.

I will say this, I just bought my wife a new loaded 4x4 Lincoln Navigator, traded her Expedition in on it before I did I test drove a fully loaded Escalade, that GM model cost nearly $20k more than our Navigator, there is absolutely no way I would pay that , it is severely overpriced, I think GM is the one putting themselves on a pedestal

[JPR1959]

" what is the difference of GM selling out to China, and a U.S. consumer selling out to buy product from China."

 

 Well said Runco!  So all you haters keep shopping @ Walmart and feel good about supporting China

 

 

It's not like the American consumer has a choice it it?  Try finding an American made coffee maker, clothes, sheets, etc.  You probably know it's vitually impossible, so if you're going to have to buy a foreign made product, why over pay?  I hate Wal-Mart, but they are far cheaper than other retailers.  Wal-Mart started the trend and the other retailers followed suit.  Either way, we're being screwed. 

[Howler]

What model of Ford are you talking about the paint blowing off? Just out of curiousity I ask this because I have never had that problem or heard of it before.

I own both an SVT and a Lincoln so perhaps I am biased as I feel I have two of their best models. I do have several friends with regular model Fords that have nothing but praise for them.

I will say this, I just bought my wife a new loaded 4x4 Lincoln Navigator, traded her Expedition in on it before I did I test drove a fully loaded Escalade, that GM model cost nearly $20k more than our Navigator, there is absolutely no way I would pay that , it is severely overpriced, I think GM is the one putting themselves on a pedestal

 

The first one was an 88 F150. The truck was a solid vehicle but the paint was terrible. The truck I drive now is a 2000 F150 that I bought new. Paint started coming off in 06 and has never stopped. Its never had body damage or paint work. The paint is good all over the truck except the top and hood (just like the old truck). Do a google search an you'll find it.