Rob Pincus at Coal Creek

[hso]

Looks like Coal Creek Armory has worked it out for Rob Pincus to come and conduct a three day handgun course in August.

[Guest jwp]

Very true and very exciting.

[Guest Grout]

He is actually coming to Tennessee to collect all those DVDs he sent out that were not returned when people didn't subscribe to his series.

[BIG ROB]

I am going to try and make this. Rob is a great guy and a very good instructor. Don't miss this opportunity to get some great training.

[Guest bkelm18]

Edit: OT.

Edited August 4, 2008 by bkelm18

[Guest jwp]

Here is a link to more info:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9066

[VERO1]

Meh. I have issues with Coal Creek.

+1

[hso]

If Pincus is just using CCA's facilities to conduct the training then why would CCA be the controlling factor in taking or not taking the course if Pincus's training is considered valid and valuable?

[Guest unreconstructed1]

Meh. I have issues with Coal Creek.

not to try to hijack a thread already, but since I will be going there for my HCP class, is there something that I should know about?

[Marswolf]

I have to admit that I'd never heard of Ron Pincus until this topic. Is he really anything special?

What little I could find on the net looked just another puffed up media hound, like Yeager (but without the obvious failure).

He's Reserve or NG, but apparently doesn't have combat experience? He did LE for a while. Now he's the civilian combat guru?

He looks like another "trainer" hypemeister, as unfortunately a lot of the so-called trainers are. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't see the real-world credentials.

His I.C.E training crap looks really hokey. I know what ICE means and have worked with them. It isn't Integrity, Consistency and Efficiency. Clearly a juvenile ploy to associate himself with folks who work in danger just about every day.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Wow Mars, tell us how you really feel about people who teach civillians to use weapons to defend themselves....

I've met Pincus. Seemed to be a nice guy. Pincus teaches what he calls "Combat Focus Shooting". Essentially it is looking over the gun up close (like I use) shooting as fast as you can keep 'em in a 4-8 " circle. He tries to incorporate the body's natural flinch response into what he does, kinda like Tony Blauer's SPEAR system of hand to hand skills.

You shoot fast up close and as you get farther from the target you have same accuracy standard as you had up close. Obviously farther away you will have to slow down and use the sights to make the hits. Most people shoot too slow up close and too fast far out or don't use the sights appropriately at different distances. He works to correct that.

Is he a "combat guru" ? A "Hypemeister"? You be the judge, but he has written a book and a bunch of articles in magazines. He gets invited to present at training events (but then again so have I so what does that tell you? ) There is also a FINE line between marketing and hype. If no one knows you exist then you can be the best instructor ever but no one will come. On the other hand some instructors' advertising is the best thing about their classes. As with anything in life, buyer beware. Do I agree with everything he teaches? No. But no one agrees with everything ANYONE teaches. Take a little from different sources to find what works for you and do not worship one instructor and you'll be fine.

I might have even considered going-just to say I had, but I'm going to be hosting Tom Sotis for some knife work here that weekend. Does Pincus teach anything really groundbreaking? You'll have to be the judge, but there are a lot of people teaching a lot less useful stuff than Pincus in my opinion. I look forward to seeing a review.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Cruel Hand Luke

[Marswolf]

Well, as I said, I've just never heard of the guy but looking at his stuff on the Internet makes him look over the top. He may be a great guy and a very good instructor but the hype turns me off. I'd much rather hear someone say that they have been to his classes and learned x,y, and z that they never heard another trainer talk about.

I know training is a business and you have to advertise yourself.. But it's sort of like in the field of wound ballistics. Who would you believe if your life is on the line. Marty Fackler or Marshall & Sanow? Dedicated science or hype? Marshall & Sanow wrote a book, but it's pretty much useless. It has padded data and the "analysis" is a joke. They crossed that fine line to sell their book but a lot of people still quote their data and conclusions.

And yes, I'd rather train with someone who has been shot at and acquitted themselves well. Real experience is a plus. That doesn't mean lack of that experience disqualifies someone as a good teacher. But most of the students won't have had that experience either and have no way of knowing if they are being given good advice or if it's just a good show.

I've given lectures on the use of DNA in forensics and also as a tool for tracing ancestry, but I don't have hands-on experience in the field. I'm sure what I told people was correct, but if I wanted real training in its use, I'd want someone who had actually been doing that work for years.

[DMark]

..... I'd rather train with someone who has been shot at and acquitted themselves well.....

That folks is a very key point!

[bubbiesdad]

not to try to hijack a thread already, but since I will be going there for my HCP class, is there something that I should know about?

I took my HCP class there, no problems. The instructor told us of the laws that were stated in the video that had been changed. Bought my handgun there, although the clerk I dealt with is no longer there.

[Guest Rob Pincus]

Hey guys.... I am looking forward to the course at CCA. We started to set one up earlier in the year, but it took a while to work out the details, everything seems very on track at this point. Teaching at a new venue is always a bit of a "roll of the dice", but we've always managed to get a good course out of the various situations! I've already taught a couple of times in TN this year, in Memphis at the Rangemaster Tactical Conference and in Brighton at Brighton Arms' great new indoor shooting range.

Thanks for the comments from those of you who are familiar with my programs.

To answer the question about "I.C.E.", "Integrity, Consistency and Efficiency" were the expressed principles of my training programs before the federal branch existed.... When it came time to split the training programs from the recreational stuff at Valhalla Shooting Club, I.C.E. Training Company was the natural company name choice, as I already had a parent company, I.C.E., LLC established for various projects. There is no expressed or intended relationship with the gov't body.

For those of you unfamiliar with my programs or interested in attending the course at CCA, here are some links to recent course feedback:

MN Gun Talk

and

LMS Forum

and there are other bits of student feedback and thoughts in the newsletter archives and on my LinkedIn profile....

If I can answer any questions feel free to email.

-RJP

[Cruel Hand Luke]

I expect to see a lengthy review of this class when it is over!

Tom Sotis is in town this weekend doing a knife seminar that I'm hosting other wise I would have been in Knoxville.

[Guest jwp]

So far everyone taking the course looks like kids on Christmas morning.

Rob is really giving them their money's worth!

[Guest Rob Pincus]

I'm looking forward to the reviews as well, Randy!

This is a small class, so people are getting plenty of reps and we're covering a lot of ground.... today at 5pm they looked like tired kids after a long day of playing with new christmas presents. .

FWIW, the CCA range is good to go and the staff has been very accommodating. They basically have given us the run of the range for the weekend. No issues what-so-ever!

Edited August 3, 2008 by Rob Pincus

[Guest jwp]

The ICE course wrapped up yesterday and was an overwhelming success, so much so that we are planning on scheduling more in the future, the next course possibly in February '09.

Also we have Rob's books and DVDs in stock for those of you who couldn't make it and would like to put some of his tactics to use before he comes this way again.

[Guest Steelharp]

Rob was my "down the road" neighbor here in Gallatin. Nice guy, knows his stuff...

[Guest jwp]

Rob was my "down the road" neighbor here in Gallatin. Nice guy, knows his stuff...

I heard he used to be a Tennessee resident.

Edited August 4, 2008 by jwp

[Guest Rob Pincus]

I did.... I lived near Nashville for a number of years in the 90's.....

AS for the class, from my point of view, the course was great. The students represented a varied background, so the questions were good and there were plenty of them. All of our courses strive to be student (not content) driven, so it is really good when we have students who are self motivated and interested in learning. With the variety of abilities and backgrounds, some things were easier than others for each student, which meant that we went to a good detail level on almost everything. Overall, the small class size and good attitudes meant that we covered a few extra things over the course of the three days.

As I said earlier, CCA was a great host facility and I'm looking forward to going back. I don't think that any of the class members were TGO members, so I'm not sure about a thorough student AAR here, but CCA has copies of the course comment sheets for interested students to look at and one of the students is a staff writer with Harris Publications, so there will be some press on the class in a few months.

-RJP

[Guest Rob Pincus]

duplicate....

Edited August 5, 2008 by Rob Pincus
duplicate...