So what? The fiscal cliff...

[gregintenn]

I can't wait to see the looks on the faces of all the mind numb Obama voters when they see their January paycheck stubs! :rofl:

[E4 No More]

Dolomite: I don't dispute what you say above; I agree with it, and I was just commenting on the church's ability to help folks. Many people like to fuss about churches constantly asking for contributions, but they also don't consider that, for most churches, they have no income other than from contributions. When the economy sucks as it has for years the contributions are down as a result. Churches have OpEx just as we do at home or a business does, and those don't change. When they must slash the budget then all non-essential items go first. Unfortunately, helping out folks in financial need for necessities gets cut too. I am a deacon in my church, and I know for a fact that many churches are struggling just to keep their doors open right now. Normally, the deacon's benevolence fund gets a budgeted fund from the church, but this year we aren't, and must rely on special offerings to fund us. It stinks when you see someone that is in true need but cannot help them.

[npgunner]

Dolomite, you could not have said it better. Here's an interesting story ... I work in Atlanta GA (maintain my residence in TN) at the major inner city county hospital. One day on my way into work, I was approached by a bum who had a "deal" he wanted to offer me. He suggested that I purchase his EBT card from him with cash. The "deal" part of it for me was that he only wanted 50% of the cards value in $. I could use the card to purchase my groceries (since I would need groceries, he said) and he would use the money "purchase things the EBT couldn't." I kindly, and later more forcefully when he persisted, refused to make the purchase and told him to put his seemingly entrepreneurial spirit to better uses by finding or creating a job. He didn't like the idea, saying "why would I work and pay taxes, when the cash I get this way is tax free?" I'm sure many others have stories like this, and there are plenty of other instances of abuse, but the ID requirement would help THIS problem a lot (selling for cash to get 'whatever'). Anyways, was my first run-in like this so I thought I would share.

[mcurrier]

But you are missing something about that old cliff. All it is going to do is raise our taxes because they'll just go on

kicking that proverbial can right on down the road until it is finally broken.

[E4 No More]

Dolomite, you could not have said it better. Here's an interesting story ... I work in Atlanta GA (maintain my residence in TN) at the major inner city county hospital. One day on my way into work, I was approached by a bum who had a "deal" he wanted to offer me. He suggested that I purchase his EBT card from him with cash. The "deal" part of it for me was that he only wanted 50% of the cards value in $. I could use the card to purchase my groceries (since I would need groceries, he said) and he would use the money "purchase things the EBT couldn't." I kindly, and later more forcefully when he persisted, refused to make the purchase and told him to put his seemingly entrepreneurial spirit to better uses by finding or creating a job. He didn't like the idea, saying "why would I work and pay taxes, when the cash I get this way is tax free?"I'm sure many others have stories like this, and there are plenty of other instances of abuse, but the ID requirement would help THIS problem a lot (selling for cash to get 'whatever'). Anyways, was my first run-in like this so I thought I would share.

This is a good example of why I give through the church. When I lived in Kansas City many years ago the local investigative reporter did an expose` on the bums that were well known in the city. They followed one guy to discover that he climbed into a relatively new Cadillac Seville and drove home to a pretty good house. When confronted the guy admitted to pulling down around $60k tax free every year.

[RobertNashville]

I'm not going to worry about or lose one moment of sleep over this stupid "fiscal cliff".

All the talk of "cuts" are nothing but hogwash anyway. There hasn't been an actual "cut" in spending in WDC in decades. All they ever "cut" is reduction of what they WANTED to spend but they still keep spending more than the year before and then more than the year before.  Besides, we all know that Speaker Boehner and the other Republicrats are going to fold and feed us bull shit while patting themselves on the back about how they held the line on spending and taxes.

It is all going to come crashing down; it's just "when" that is the unknown...maybe it will be no longer pricing oil in dollars...maybe it will be interest rates rising to normal levels...maybe it will be something else but the house of cards that have been building since at least the early 60s and the frantic building of the last four years IS going to come crashing down on our heads.

 

I'm sorry that this is going to hurt some good people...real people who do necessary and even vital work for the federal government but it's going to hurt everyone no matter who they work for or if they work at all (likely in ways that most people haven't even imagined yet) but these seeds were sown many years ago and the crop is about to come in.

Edited December 27, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Links2k]

Dolomite, you could not have said it better.

He suggested that I purchase his EBT card from him with cash. The "deal" part of it for me was that he only wanted 50% of the cards value in $. I could use the card to purchase my groceries (since I would need groceries, he said) and he would use the money "purchase things the EBT couldn't".

I'll assume that this occurs quite frequently. I'll bet a lot of the people that you see filling their bimmers and suvs with groceries have taken advantage of this "opportunity" with no guilt. I buy into this theory more so than the actual receipiant of the ebt funds being the owners of the nice vehicles that some like to whine about.

[East_TN_Patriot]

I wasn't trying to insult anyone when I started this thread. I'm just tired of the government doing what it damned

well pleases and so many expecting a handout, that I wish to see it jump and get it over.

It's not you or the thread that bugged me.  It was the comments that basically said that all federal employees are "lazy" and "useless" and suggested that all federal employees live life high-on-the-hog with no worries about where their "next meal is coming from." 

I think this goes without saying that we are talking about military service members, law enforcement, Veteran's affairs, doctors, teachers, researchers, and Border Patrol (seems that would be a useful job since most people think all those darn illegals are the source of most of our nation's problems), and other people in jobs that many Americans rely on.  My point here is not so much whether these are legitimate functions of the federal government, which is a reasonable discussion to have, but that it seems many here see no problem at all yanking the rug out from under honest people without so much as a "sorry" for their trouble.  It's simply shameful that our society has declined to such a degree that there seem to be no decent caring folks left who have some genuine sympathy for fellow human beings and seem to be so willing to cut another person's throat for what they think is best for them.  I don't care for the federal bureaucracy either, but I'm not so shallow and heartless to say that I don't feel sympathy for any of these workers who may end up out of a job, or can't pay their bills next month when these greedy and corrupt politicians can't get their $hit straight.  We will manage because even though I have a full-time career and a PhD, I still work side jobs to help pay bills, something I have done since I was in policing.  And my wife will always wait tables again as a side job if necessary, as she did for many years while working her allegedly high-paying entry level federal job.  Somehow this amazing federal salary didn't help us when we nearly had to file for bankruptcy after we lost almost 50% of the value on our home in Florida when we moved to Tennessee - FOR HER FEDERAL JOB.  Her amazing salary didn't keep us from racking up thousands in student loan debt while I finished graduate school. 

With that, my "lazy" and "useless" "idiot" wife is at her evil federal job today, pregnant and with a fever, working extra - again - for no overtime, because work needs to be done and due to cutting employees, there's nobody else to do it.

Do I think that any of these insults were directed specifically at me? Certainly not, but when people paint with such a wide brush, they never know who they are going to include in their remarks. 

Edited December 27, 2012 by East_TN_Patriot

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That's fair and I agree. The problem is the encroachment of and excessive growth of government, not the individual

employee. You said she is at work, pregnant and with a fever. I trust she and the baby are okay.

 

When I criticize the government I think you already know I mean the entity, not the individual employees. Of course,

it will be the employees who will bear the brunt of the problem.

[E4 No More]

It's not you or the thread that bugged me.  It was the comments that basically said that all federal employees are "lazy" and "useless" and suggested that all federal employees live life high-on-the-hog with no worries about where their "next meal is coming from." 

I think this goes without saying that we are talking about military service members, law enforcement, Veteran's affairs, doctors, teachers, researchers, and Border Patrol (seems that would be a useful job since most people think all those darn illegals are the source of most of our nation's problems), and other people in jobs that many Americans rely on.  My point here is not so much whether these are legitimate functions of the federal government, which is a reasonable discussion to have, but that it seems many here see no problem at all yanking the rug out from under honest people without so much as a "sorry" for their trouble.  It's simply shameful that our society has declined to such a degree that there seem to be no decent caring folks left who have some genuine sympathy for fellow human beings and seem to be so willing to cut another person's throat for what they think is best for them.  I don't care for the federal bureaucracy either, but I'm not so shallow and heartless to say that I don't feel sympathy for any of these workers who may end up out of a job, or can't pay their bills next month when these greedy and corrupt politicians can't get their $hit straight.  We will manage because even though I have a full-time career and a PhD, I still work side jobs to help pay bills, something I have done since I was in policing.  And my wife will always wait tables again as a side job if necessary, as she did for many years while working her allegedly high-paying entry level federal job.  Somehow this amazing federal salary didn't help us when we nearly had to file for bankruptcy after we lost almost 50% of the value on our home in Florida when we moved to Tennessee - FOR HER FEDERAL JOB.  Her amazing salary didn't keep us from racking up thousands in student loan debt while I finished graduate school. 

With that, my "lazy" and "useless" "idiot" wife is at her evil federal job today, pregnant and with a fever, working extra - again - for no overtime, because work needs to be done and due to cutting employees, there's nobody else to do it.

Do I think that any of these insults were directed specifically at me? Certainly not, but when people paint with such a wide brush, they never know who they are going to include in their remarks. 

Fair enough, but also to be fair I know of these stories coming from federal employees themselves. My best friend works at the VA in Murfreesboro, and he's full of examples that he sees causing the stereotypes. This friend has a great work ethic, and loves doing whatever he can for vets, but he tells me of frequent conflicts that he causes with co-workers because by doing his job at the best of his ability it "makes them look bad." HHe talks of people who do not handle a fourth of the calls that he does continuing to be employed.

To me, it's like the 10% of police officer that give all police officers a bad rap, except it's far greater than 10%.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

And like Jewell says, it may not necessarily be the employee, but t he regulations those employees have to work

around to do their jobs. I suspect that is a huge part of the problem.

Edited December 27, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[Links2k]

And like Jewell says, it may not necessarily be the employee, but t he regulations those employees have to work
around to do their jobs. I suspect that is a huge part of the problem.

I agree. Then you throw in the double edged sword of the unions. Whew! Unions are a necessary evil.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Yeh, let's not go there today. :D

[nightrunner]

I completely fail to see how unions are "necessary"? Please explain

[sigmtnman]

If we go off the cliff can I OC at the turkey creek CFA?

[Oh Shoot]

Another real consequence going back to pre-Bush tax  cuts is the inheritance tax.

 

Exemption goes from 5mil back to 1 mil, and the rate back to 50% or so, I forget.

 

Which simply means that much inherited property must be sold just to pay the taxes. Bad enough for urban and rural residential properties, which are selling for a fraction of former market value, but the real hit is that these include various small businesses with employees. Which of course means lost jobs.

 

The ever increasing loss of small family working farms was one of the reasons used for raising the exemption and lowering the tax rate to begin with.

 

- OS

[oldmustangjunkie]

Another real consequence going back to pre-Bush tax  cuts is the inheritance tax.

 

Exemption goes from 5mil back to 1 mil, and the rate back to 50% or so, I forget.

 

Which simply means that much inherited property must be sold just to pay the taxes. Bad enough for urban and rural residential properties, which are selling for a fraction of former market value, but the real hit is that these include various small businesses with employees. Which of course means lost jobs.

 

The ever increasing loss of small family working farms was one of the reasons used for raising the exemption and lowering the tax rate to begin with.

 

- OS

 

It's a non-issue.  If you shell out around $500 for a trust/estate lawyer, you'll bypass probate and the inheritance tax.  We have all our land/possessions secured in this way.

[npgunner]

It's a non-issue.  If you shell out around $500 for a trust/estate lawyer, you'll bypass probate and the inheritance tax.  We have all our land/possessions secured in this way.

my understanding is that you can only entrust a certain amount of value to protect it this way (although i believe it may be a somewhat sizeable value, at least to what my checkin account is used to seeing). i'm not sure of what the amount is, but i know you can't protect an infinite amount of funds this way.

 

they want it all, and they will legislate themself a way to get what they want

[vaiger]

It's a non-issue.  If you shell out around $500 for a trust/estate lawyer, you'll bypass probate and the inheritance tax.  We have all our land/possessions secured in this way.

Actually avoiding probate and avoiding the Federal and State death taxes are two separate issues. You can transfer all assets to an inter vivos trust (such as a revocable living trust) and avoid probate at your death. All assets in that trust are still included in your estate for death tax purposes. Going over the cliff is a real issue for folks with estates in excess of $1.0M or $2.0M for a married couple. Keep in mind that those numbers typically include life insurance, the value of your home, investment accounts, retirement accounts, family farms, businesses, rental properties, etc.

I have actually spent quite a bit of my December helping clients plan for or hedge against the comming changes. Edited December 28, 2012 by vaiger

[Oh Shoot]

Actually avoiding probate and avoiding the Federal and State death taxes are two separate issues. You can transfer all assets to an inter vivos trust (such as a revocable living trust) and avoid probate at your death. All assets in that trust are still included in your estate for death tax purposes. ...

 

That was my understanding, that it has no effect on federal taxation.

 

Maybe it affects TN inheritance tax, dunno?

 

- OS

[vaiger]

 
Maybe it affects TN inheritance tax, dunno?
 
- OS

It does not help with the TN inheritance tax either. The tn law and fed law are very similar in structure as far as what gets taxed.....TN inheritance tax is scheduled to be phased out by 2016 though.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[RobertNashville]

No matter how you slice it, almost everyone is going to get screwed;  higher taxes, smaller paychecks, and higher prices for just about everything we buy and the Republicans will get the majority of the blame for it pretty much regardless of what they do or don't do thanks in no small part to a media that refuses to tell the truth.

 

If the media would simply report the truth about our "recovery" and the higher prices we already pay for food and other essentials people would be on the Capitol steps and the gates to the White House right now demanding the head of every one in office.

 

I'm expecting the worse...a "deal" that is far worse than the "fiscal cliff" could ever be followed by the real fiscal meltdown that everyone in office hopes doesn't happen until they have retired with enough real assets to live well.

[smopoim86]

If they don't patch the AMT April is gonna hurt a lot of people. Look it up. Around 100 million people will be paying an additional 10% in taxes. Prepare for a real depression if they don't fix it. 

[mcurrier]

If they don't patch the AMT April is gonna hurt a lot of people. Look it up. Around 100 million people will be paying an additional 10% in taxes. Prepare for a real depression if they don't fix it. 

From what I've read, because of all the monkeying around, MANY people may not even be able to file until late-March/early-April at the earliest as it is due to IRS having to reprogram their computers.  So even if you were expecting to get a "refund", you might have to wait until April, May or June for it.

 

I'll try and locate the articles that I've read concerning that and post the link(s) here.  Heading out to lunch now.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I doubt they fix anything. Part of me hopes they do and the other doesn't. If they don't, the middle class

may actually wake up and vote like decent people and clean out the Senate. Then an impeachment could

begin.With that hanging over his head we could see just how narcissistic he is, or whether he turns "Clintonian"

on his cause.

 

I stopped caring what this guy does a while back, anyway. He is just on a collision course.