So what? The fiscal cliff...

[Guest 6.8 AR]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/federal-workers-feel-unease-over-potential-layoffs-furloughs-unleashed-by-fiscal-cliff/2012/12/24/c63bc3c8-4d63-11e2-8b49-64675006147f_print.html

 

This is the least of my concerns. If this is the only concerns DC has, bring it on! Go over the damned

cliff.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Good, maybe they can see how it feels for the millions of Americans who wonder where their next meal is going to come from.

 

Dolomite

[Moped]

As I thought, business as usual for the Federal Government, when we go over the Fiscal Cliff.  Oh there will be temporary appropriate cuts in travel and technology and other things like that, but nothing meaningful. They will hold off furloughs and lay-offs as long as possible and cut in other areas.  Most likely, our vaunted Legislators on both sides will find a way to climb back up that Fiscal Cliff and no one will lose a job and nothing will be cut permanently.  No needless and duplicate programs will be gone.  The Leaders on both sides of the aisle, will make sure that nothing is cut.  There will be no downsizing in Government, because downsizing means someone loses their power and they can't have that in Washington D.C. Both sides want that power in place, when they are in control.

[guntalk]

It's just fine with me to hit the the spending limit on 12/31/2012.  Let's go right over the cliff, fine with me.  Looks like it primarily affects the Fed Gov for a shutdown, and I'm all in favor of that.  Shut it all down.

 

[xRUSTYx]

I'm hoping we do go over the fiscal cliff.  While taxes will go up for everyone, huge spending cuts happen as well.

 

We need to go over the cliff if we have any hope in an American future.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

We jumped over that damned cliff a long time ago. We are the ones who have to pay our bills. The gov

doesn't. The cliff is just another ruse.

[Caster]

I'm hoping we go over it without even pumping the brakes. Time the lazy, useless idiots of this country felt the pinch.

[ShamGlock]

Won't really bother me at all. In the business I'm in it's the uncertainty that keeps my customers from spending. At least this way we will have an answer and people can move once they realize it's not the end of the world. 

[Dolomite_supafly]

They did mention that 2 million people will lose their unemployment benefits. Not sure what to make of that but my gut feeling is if they were looking for work, rather than just sitting around, it would help the economy. Remember these are the people who have been collecting for over a year now. And along with unemployment benefits they are likely receiving food stamps, housing subsidies as well as healthcare in some states. All those benefits cost the taxpayer as well as increase our national debt.  And it is those of us that work that are going to replay that debt.

 

If someone is so hard up for food I am sure their family or their church would be glad to help them. But there are some that think having a Playstation for Christmas is a necessity.  Or thinking it is a requirement that they have a 60” television to watch their HD cable on. If you are on governemnt assistance you should have enough to eat, clothe your bodies (an not with brand names), heat your home and not much else.

 

Dolomite

[npgunner]

Two thumbs up for taking the dive AND getting all these "chronically unemployed" of the government paycheck. If we crash hard enough maybe it will shake some if these long-term power hungry politicians out of there seats and we can vote in some fresh faces with fresh ideas on how to run the place (although, not super hopeful considering November's results). Tired of the same-ol same-ol malarkey that's been tried for so long now. What Americans need to start hearing is the word "No" from Uncle Sam.

[peejman]

We jumped over that damned cliff a long time ago. We are the ones who have to pay our bills. The gov

doesn't. The cliff is just another ruse.

 

 

Agreed.  We've been in free-fall for several years.  I think we've finally cleared the clouds and can see the ground rushing up.  Its a bit late to be thinking about a parachute.

[Links2k]

I've always wanted to go over the so called fiscal cliff. I want cuts to everything. No sacred cows. Not even the military and foreign aid.

[East_TN_Patriot]

Well, I'm glad to see all the support for fellow Americans who just happen to work for the federal government.  I'll be sure to keep this in mind when my "lazy" and "useless" wife doesn't bring home a paycheck and we get to figure out how to pay our mortgage while feeding a kid and trying to get ready for another due in a few months.

It's not the fault of the workers who simply applied for a job and accepted it just like the rest of the world does when the opportunity presents itself.  It's not the workers' fault that Congress and the White House can't get their crap together.  I don't disagree that the federal government is too large and needs to be cut, but to act as if the thousands of people who rely on the paycheck are somehow less important is a load of crap.

Edited December 26, 2012 by East_TN_Patriot

[Guest 6.8 AR]

No one is picking people out, ET. I think most of us are
just tired of being lied to, and are tire of spending out
of control. Nothing personal about your wife at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[guntalk]

Well, I'm glad to see all the support for fellow Americans who just happen to work for the federal government.  I'll be sure to keep this in mind when my "lazy" and "useless" wife doesn't bring home a paycheck and we get to figure out how to pay our mortgage while feeding a kid and trying to get ready for another due in a few months.

It's not the fault of the workers who simply applied for a job and accepted it just like the rest of the world does when the opportunity presents itself.  It's not the workers' fault that Congress and the White House can't get their crap together.  I don't disagree that the federal government is too large and needs to be cut, but to act as if the thousands of people who rely on the paycheck are somehow less important is a load of crap.

 

I don't know what capacity your wife works in, but the federal government should never be used as a jobs machine to funnel money from taxpayers.  

 

There are legitimate uses of federal power, and therefore, legitimate federal jobs and employees.  And there are illegitimate uses of federal power, and therefore, illegitimate jobs and employees.  If anybody is a federal employee and serving an illegitimate role, i.e. in a job role that is a cog in the machine of abusing Constitutional powers, they should lose their jobs.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2012 by guntalk

[East_TN_Patriot]

 

I don't know what capacity your wife works in, but the federal government should never be used as a jobs machine to funnel money from taxpayers.  

 

There are legitimate uses of federal power, and therefore, legitimate federal jobs and employees.  And there are illegitimate uses of federal power, and therefore, illegitimate jobs and employees.  If anybody is a federal employee and serving an illegitimate role, i.e. in a job role that is a cog in the machine of abusing Constitutional powers, they should lose their jobs.

 

 

So you're telling me that if you were offered a job with the federal government making more money than you are now and with benefits, which was always the draw of federal employment, you'd turn it down to make a political point?  I highly doubt that.

FWIW, she works in the court system, and they have been cutting positions, not filling positions, not gotten pay raises in 2 years, had increases in the health insurance costs, and restructured their pay scales so that employees won't make as much money as in the past.  I'll admit that I don't know whether other government agencies have implemented the same cost-saving measures, but it's always problematic paint with a broad brush and stereotype all federal employees as lazy and useless because of some examples of bureaucratic waste.  They don't send their employees to fancy conferences in exotic locales.  They don't have fancy parties.  They don't get expensive cars to drive. Their offices aren't lavish or finely decorated.  Our bank account has taken a hit, but I don't complain because I know something has to be done.

These conversations are always interesting to me because many of the people who complain about federal government spending (not saying anyone here applies) also take full advantage of federal government benefits and complain if there's talk about cutting those benefits.  I would suggest that many of the more wasteful programs are in areas that most conservative leaning folks refuse to cut spending: military and defense spending.  Among the top 15 countries, the United States spends more money on military and defense that the next 14 countries combined. 

Are you all willing to take a cut to your Medicare/Medicaid or Social Security?  Most Tea Party people asked were not.  At the end of the day, most Americans aren't serious about cutting spending.  They only want to cut the things that aren't important to them personally.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

If you think our attitudes are bad, remember it later. You can't spend money you don't have for years and expect 

it to just keep on happening because your wife works for the government. My wife was in the first round of a RIF

at her job. I'm not blaming anyone, nor is she. I'm certainly not blaming anyone around here. It is what it is. If she

wants to go out and get another job, I'm sure she will find one.

 

I don't expect Medicare to survive and I certainly won't stand in line for a Percocet with Obamacare when they tell

me I'm not worth providing health care to. I'm really sorry to hear your wife works for the government. I have a feeling

soon we all will.

 

But you are missing something about that old cliff. All it is going to do is raise our taxes because they'll just go on

kicking that proverbial can right on down the road until it is finally broken.

[East_TN_Patriot]

I understand the issue and I frankly think the fiscal cliff may be the best thing that could happen to help control government spending. What bugs me is the tone of complete and utter malcontent for regular Americans who are just as much a victim of this as everyone else.  It's not as if my wife, or any other normal federal employees, actually had anything to do with this.  They punch a clock like the rest of the world and rely on their incomes like everyone else.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I understand your sentiment completely. The only difference between yours and mine is only the paycheck. It

doesn't matter about the type of job. The times we're heading into isn't going to get any better for anyone,

except maybe temporarily. This country is dying because of things out of our control.

 

I wasn't trying to insult anyone when I started this thread. I'm just tired of the government doing what it damned

well pleases and so many expecting a handout, that I wish to see it jump and get it over.

 

I really wish I was in Galt's Gulch right now. Just preparing for it in my own way.

[RED333]

The thing is, going over the edge wont "FIX" anything, STOP SENDING MY MONEY OUT OF THIS COUNTRY,

STOP GIVING FOOD STAMPS AND UNEMPLOYMENT TO DRUG USERS!!!

That will fix some of IT!!!

Sorry for yelling.

Edited December 27, 2012 by RED333

[npgunner]

I'm sorry that Uncle Sam going broke may impact you personally. For those of us who work in the private sector, if our employer goes broke, then we loose our jobs (well, with the exception of the auto and banking industry). Our employer doesn't turn a profit, or increase his revenue, we don't see a compensation increase. These concepts should apply to those working in the Government also. Any government employee can leave there job and find a private sector job just as I can change from employer to employer should the terms of my employment not suit my needs. So ... if slimming down the governments payroll means people loosing jobs, so be it. There are people out there creating jobs for hard workers, or even better, start a business and create some jobs for others! Also, trimming the abuse out of the entitlements should help also. Showing ID to see the new hit rated-R movie, but not to vote, or pick up food stamps is completely moronic.

[mikegideon]

I understand the issue and I frankly think the fiscal cliff may be the best thing that could happen to help control government spending. What bugs me is the tone of complete and utter malcontent for regular Americans who are just as much a victim of this as everyone else.  It's not as if my wife, or any other normal federal employees, actually had anything to do with this.  They punch a clock like the rest of the world and rely on their incomes like everyone else.

I don't see that you have much to worry about. All the gun grabbers are getting ready to make a whole bunch of new criminals. They can't cut the courts. It's for the children.

[E4 No More]

They did mention that 2 million people will lose their unemployment benefits. Not sure what to make of that but my gut feeling is if they were looking for work, rather than just sitting around, it would help the economy. Remember these are the people who have been collecting for over a year now. And along with unemployment benefits they are likely receiving food stamps, housing subsidies as well as healthcare in some states. All those benefits cost the taxpayer as well as increase our national debt.  And it is those of us that work that are going to replay that debt.
 
If someone is so hard up for food I am sure their family or their church would be glad to help them. But there are some that think having a Playstation for Christmas is a necessity.  Or thinking it is a requirement that they have a 60” television to watch their HD cable on. If you are on governemnt assistance you should have enough to eat, clothe your bodies (an not with brand names), heat your home and not much else.
 
Dolomite

You would be wrong to assume that the churches aren't being hit by the economy now days, and that they are able to do much for anyone. My church is currently in a huge deficit and cannot give benevolence funds at all next year. The deacons have to rely on direct contributions next year. Edited December 27, 2012 by SWJewellTN

[E4 No More]

I think some may miss the point that government will just change the laws to suit them. This fiscal cliff crap is just for show. If they don't reach an agreement they'll just pass another law modifying the previous one to postpone or remove the consequences of the first law. The government isn't going to stop spending to suit us. They are money-hungry, power brokers who simply argue about how they steal our money, period!

[Dolomite_supafly]

You would be wrong to assume that the churches aren't being hit by the economy now days, and that they are able to do much for anyone. My church is currently in a huge deficit and cannot give benevolence funds at all next year. The deacons have to rely on direct contributions next year.

 

But that is probably because they have been helping members in need. That is what church and family is for, to help those in need. If the church has done all it can then that is great. They have done all they can and no one can fault them when they run out.

 

A problem I see every day is people think they are in need when they really are not. There are people who think having an XBox is a need or going to the movies once a week is a need or going to the salon or tanning is a need. None of these are needs. All a person needs to survive is food, water and shelter and an XBox provides none of that. If you look at the Christmas trees they put up for people to write their needs on you will see how spoiled some people have become.

 

I am not saying this for sympathy or to show I am better than anyone else but I know what it is to be in need. There have been times, early in my life, where I would rip the back seat out of the car searching for change. And the money I found was for a pack of spaghetti and a bottle of ketchup. And that was what my wife and I had for our dinner, boiled spaghetti that we then fried and used ketchup for the sauce. And during that time I would have loved to have had a nice television or a game console but it was not something I needed. I have never forgetten about that and even to this day I will pick up pennies off the ground because of it. And my childhood was just as bad if not worse because my father didn't believe in handouts in any form. We qualified for free school meals but my father wouldn't allow it. The school lunch was the best meal of the day most times. And for breakfast I almost always had warm milk poured over some toast.

 

There are a lot of people in this nation who do not know what it is like to actually need something. They confuse needs with wants.

 

A lot of people have an entitlement mindset anymore. If they see someone else receiving any benefits they want those same benefits even if they do not need them. And it has gotten so bad and out of control that there is no way to reform it without a complete collapse of the system. And if you think it isn't bad go stand at Walmart on the 2nd or 3rd of each month and watch how many people use EBT cards. It is also sickening to see what people are buying with the money we put into the system by way of our taxes. I see people with EBT cards buying beer all the time. The cashier rings up EVERYTHING then the customer swipes their EBT card and the register automatically deducts all the items the EBT card can purchase leaving the other items to be paid for in cash. If a person is using a EBT card because they need them to survive then alcohol should be the fathest from their minds. I know a lady who uses her EBT card to buy packs of tuna for her cats and she brags about it. She says she will continue until they let her buy catfood with her EBT card. And we are talking about the expensive packs of tuna that I feel guilty about buying 1/2 the time.

 

Want to fix the EBT fraud problem? First drug test all recipients. Second the person using it must show an ID and it must match the card. And finally, require all recipients to perform 8 hours of community service a week.

 

Anyone who goes to work for the government is required to get a drug test it should be the same for those who receive those same government funds. I want to make sure my tax money isn't being used for something illegal. Do random drug tests and 1st offense they loose benefits for a month. 2nd offense they loose benefits for 6 months. 3rd offense they loose benefits for life. If you are so down and out that you need these funds to survive you should not be wating them on illegal drugs.

 

Right now a person who is using a EBT card does NOT have to show an ID to verify who they are. The office that manages it says it is for privacy reasons even though the name is on the card. They also say if someone else is using the card then the owner of the card gave them permission. This makes it ripe for fraud where people are selling or trading the EBT benefits for something else, likely illegal items. Make it a requirement that the person, to whom the card is issued, be present for the purchase.

 

Every person who receives a paycheck in the real world works for it. Why is it that someone can receive free money without lifting so much as a finger. Even if it is just answering the phone from home for 8 hours a week it is work they are doing to get paid. Just that 8 hours once a week would force a lot of enrollees off the welfare rolls. And for those who are abled bodied they can pick up trash alongside the road or some other thing to improve the looks or performance of the community.

 

Something else, if you are not here legally you should not receive ANY money. Well let me rephrase. The benefits you receive should be in the form of a bus or plane ticket back to your country of origin.

 

Dolomite