Does Gov't know what firearms you have?

[ohbehave]

I was wondering if the local or national government keeps track of what we buy.

 

Now, I know we do the paperwork when we buy a firearm, but I was told that all record of the affair is purged within 24 hours.

 

So, according to that, does the government have no idea about who owns what?

 

Thanks

Ohbehave  

[c.a.willard]

In TN the answer would be No.   The state and Fed do not keep a record.  The 4473 is kept on file at the FFL until they close then they are sent to the ATF.  AFAIK once there the 4473's are simply filed away and not put into a database.  The only thing that would be on a registry would be NFA items that are on the ATF's registry. 

[ohbehave]

Interesting, but if they are "filed away", they are still accessible.

 

I'm asking because I am wondering how they might enforce gun controls on specific types of weapons.   On the one hand, if they do not know what you have.... not knowing if you've got a revolver or a cache of AK-47's... it seems that they'd need people to voluntarily register their naughty firearms along with some sort of legal threat if a person fails to do so.

[monkeylizard]

With an army of paper pushers they could know what you bought through an FFL. They can't know if you still have it or not as private sales don't require a paper trail. They'd also not know what you bought from private sales.

If the fed or a state did a registration requirement, there would be penalties for non compliance. They couldn't find the one you burie...."sold" but you couldn't do much with it. Similar to having a known stolen or banned gun today.

[Ramjo]

All I know is, there are people around here who will shoot any man who tries to take their guns away. 

[seez52]

There was some controversy a few years back about the instant check system not being purged 24 hours after a check was done. I think this was the fed. check system. Not sure where that stands today.

[ohbehave]

Unfortunately, if someone tried to "shoot any man who take their guns away".... that would be all our government needs to invoke even more draconian anti-gun, anti-self defense controls.

 

Just one or two of those shootings, and the public would support such additional regulations, too!

 

I fear that our nation is populated by a totally new demographic.... dependent upon government and happy with that.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Those records that have been purged still existed at one time. I'll bet there's a record of those scattered

electrons, or whatever, hiding around. There is a record of everything on the internet, I hear.

[ohbehave]

Honestly, I've never noticed what is included on the FFL records.   Does it actually ask for the specific type of weapon?

[Commando68]

The govts garden is the Internet. I as well as all of you are guilty of feeding leviathan data. Look no further than every post you make. However, learn your protections under the bill of rights while we still have them. Speak out against tyranny. It is sad. It is truly sad how ill informed, stupid, apathetic, lazy and dependent the majority of the sheeple are. Very few are familiar with the bill of rights. Some that are do not care. Some that are that we're educated in socialist, income redistribution, indoctrination camps that were graciously educated and fed at taxpayers expense call you the enemy. Amerika is growing weaker. Ignorant. Entitled. Pacified. Stupid. It is really pathetic.

[Guest bkelm18]

Honestly, I've never noticed what is included on the FFL records.   Does it actually ask for the specific type of weapon?

 

The weapon and serial are listed on the 4473 as well as in the dealer's bound book.

[m16ty]

If the govenrment wanted to find out what you had, they could. The main problem is the government is incompetent. The NFA registry the BATF keeps is a mess. I have firsthand knowlege of a owner of a NFA item that contacted the BATF about his paperwork. That was several years ago and to this day they have been unable to produce a copy of his form 4. Evendently, they can't find it.

[AdotOdot4]

I doubt they know specifically what I own, but I'm sure they know I own some from past 4473s/HCP/etc

[billyscott]

I know, a local LEO can find what firearms you have bought for at least the last year. 

[RobertNashville]

As I was just discussing with a fellow TGOer this afternoon, and something worth keeping in mind, if you buy a new firearm and the transaction is done through an FFL/background check for whatever reason (purchasing directly from the FFL or interstate transaction or whatever) then there is a record of that transaction. However whether and how and for how long that record is preserved and  how accessible it is likely varies.  I'd say that given the number of transactions over the decades that records have been kept by anyone, finding out who bought what when would be a pretty monumental task.

 

More importantly, as far as I know, no one is required to keep a record of a firearm transaction between private parties so any weapons you bought that way or sold that way is likely not recorded by anyone. I keep a record of what I buy and sell for my own purposes but no one but me knows where those records are or has access to them.

Even if someday, a firearm I bought 30 years ago and sold 20 years ago is ever used in a crime, I seriously doubt anybody is going to show up on my doorstep asking about the gun as I think that original transaction, though a record "exists" somewhere, has been lost to obscurity.

[Moped]

Actually, that is not true, Robert.  Local LE is required to trace every firearm used in a crime and they will try and trace that firearm as far as they possibly can. I believe they go through the BATFE for the trace.  BATFE will contact the manufacturer, then the distributor and finally the Dealer or if that Dealer is no longer dealing, then the Dealer's records, that have to be turned in to BATFE, when the dealer surrenders their FFL.  I'm 99.99999% sure those dealer records are in a BATFE database.  They then pass that on to Local LE, who start asking questions and try and trace that weapon to a suspect.

 

While BATFE, may not keep a database for firearms transactions, there is a computer trail of sorts to what a person might have and the potential is there for them to find out what we all have.  Heck a good search of this site here, could turn up a list of what a lot of us have, since most of us get on here and broadcast what we have to the whole planet.

[RobertNashville]

I never said they wouldn't try or that they aren't required to try, but I think you are giving the federal government and local law enforcement credit for more competency than they deserve. ;)

 

Right now, the federal forms can only tie a weapon to the original buyer. Once a weapon has been sold by private parties once or twice or three or more times, even if some of those transactions have records, finding the people and finding the records, assuming any exist, is not going to be that easy. :)

 

There are ways for them to fine out of course...if people freely give information about specific weapons (some even list SNs) on forums like this then data mining can find that and eventually find "you"....likewise, such as in my case, I'm sure that if LE got a warrant for it my insurance would have to provide a list of everything I've insured;  however, they would already have to be looking my way before they would even be able to formulate that question!

 

Of course, if they outlaw all PP sales or even re-class all or most semi-automatic weapons under the NFA then things are going to be much different!

Edited December 22, 2012 by RobertNashville

[nightrunner]

If you bought a firearm from a ffl, yes there is record of it. But there is nothing requiring you to have a paper trail for private sales and i have a horrible memory. And if you buy from an individual in a private sale, there is no record of that either.

[seez52]

My question has always been what happens when a gun you purchased from a dealer but subsequently sold privately shows up at a crime scene? The paper trail stops at your door, what happens then? Has anyone had this happen to them?

[nightrunner]

I think you would probably need an alibi for that time period of crime but i dunno. Very rare circumstance

[RobertNashville]

My question has always been what happens when a gun you purchased from a dealer but subsequently sold privately shows up at a crime scene? The paper trail stops at your door, what happens then? Has anyone had this happen to them?

I'm sure it's happened but I'd suspect it's fairly rare. Even when it does, I really don't think they are going to give you a lot of trouble unless there is something more substantial to connect you to the crime.  Obviously, if you ever have a firearm stolen, report it...other than that the simple fact that a weapon you once owned, maybe years ago, turns up at a crime scene I don't think is enough to get worried about...it would be a scary situation to be sure but I am not going to lose sleep over something that could happen some day that I can't do anything about anyway.

 

Then again, I'm and old fart so all that bad stuff that could happen is running out of time to make its move. ;)

[Guest 6.8 AR]

With all the Google sniffing, I'll bet they have a good idea of what you typically have, if not exactly.

[DaveTN]

My question has always been what happens when a gun you purchased from a dealer but subsequently sold privately shows up at a crime scene? The paper trail stops at your door, what happens then? Has anyone had this happen to them?

Unless you have committed a crime in the transfer of that weapon; it is simply a gun a crime scene. Are you going to be charged with the crime that took place? Probably not on the weapon trace alone.

Are you going to be charged if the weapon sale was illegal? Probably, if it can be proven in court. The man who sold the gun to McNairs girlfriend made a plea deal for 30 months in prison.

[Il Duce]

They know of my SBR

[Guest 6.8 AR]

What a price to pay for a shorter barrel, huh?