Long Guns in Parks?

[Paladin132]

I was reading up some on backpacking as I am planning some trips in the new year and I came across some folks that think you can carry a long gun in the park - and out west this does indeed seem to be allowed iaw local laws. I have never seen it, and in fact I am still wrestling with the best way to carry my sidearm as I am just not comfortable with open carrying (to many antigun folks I suspect would cause me not to enjoy my hike without a discussion with park rangers. But it did make me curious. What is the law for TN, and for NC for that matter. Anyone familiar with it? State parks v national parks v forests?

[Oh Shoot]

I was reading up some on backpacking as I am planning some trips in the new year and I came across some folks that think you can carry a long gun in the park - and out west this does indeed seem to be allowed iaw local laws. I have never seen it, and in fact I am still wrestling with the best way to carry my sidearm as I am just not comfortable with open carrying (to many antigun folks I suspect would cause me not to enjoy my hike without a discussion with park rangers. But it did make me curious. What is the law for TN, and for NC for that matter. Anyone familiar with it? State parks v national parks v forests?

I'll do National Park part, it's fairly easy :)

 

The federal statute is quite terse, and only says:

 

"Protecting the Right of Individuals To Bear arms in Units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System- The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if--

(1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm; and

(2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located."

 

(there is probably a CFR part that goes along with this USC, that may have more specific info, but I've not run across it yet).

 

---------------

 

So in a nutshell as I understand it, and having never found anything to the contrary, you may carry according to the laws of the state in which the Park resides, and the statute only says "firearm"

 

In TN that means a loaded handgun only, open or concealed, with a TN HCP or a permit that TN honors (which is all of them). No loaded long gun on your person. Which is to say, no long gun period for any practical purpose,  as an unloaded long gun with ammo on your for it is still a loaded gun under the definitions. May have loaded long gun in vehicle with HCP, sans one in chamber.

 

In NC, that means a concealed loaded handgun with NC permit or a permit NC honors (which includes TN), or a loaded handgun carried openly with no permit. However, don't know NC laws regarding long guns, or what is considered a "loaded" one.

 

Note as you walk parts of the Appy Trail, it may be quite unclear which state you are actually in!

 

Note also that most buildings inside National Parks are federal facilities, and still no carry in them by federal law. They are supposed to be posted. Note also, that at least a couple of parks are apparently ruled as almost entirely "federal facility" and marked no carry (Carlsbad Caverns, Mammoth Cave) maybe more.

 

 

- OS

Edited December 20, 2012 by Oh Shoot

[Paladin132]

Ok, that is how I understood it, but wanted a second opinion. Without getting into the silliness of it all, laws are a pain to dig through sometimes (and I am overly educated in the department)!

[Guest drifter]

Why would you need a long gun while backpacking anyways?  Seems pretty unnecessary.

Also, open carrying is just gonna invite unwanted attention.  If you open carry here in TN, State Rangers are obligated to take your firearm, unload it, and verify with dispatch that your permit is valid.  If you're in the middle of the woods, that could take a while.  If there are children present, you may also be asked to leave.

 

Also, other than dedicated areas such as skeet, trap, and range, or an organized by the state hunt, discharging a firearm on park property is an offense.  So for example, you see a scary snake and decide to shoot it, you would be breaking 2 laws, as all snakes are protected in TN.

 

If you're gonna conceal and carry, shouldn't be any issues.  Also I know a lot of guys will camp at state parks and hunt in the state forest.  As long as their long guns were unloaded, secured, and out of sight in the park they never got hassled.  People might complain about field dressing a deer in the campground, but there's no law against it :P

 

So in TN, conceal ok, open carry ok but stupid, long guns no.

Edited December 20, 2012 by drifter

[DaveTN]

Why would you need a long gun while backpacking anyways?  Seems pretty unnecessary.

Because there is stuff in the woods that will kill you and eat you?

[Guest bkelm18]

Why would you need a long gun while backpacking anyways? Seems pretty unnecessary.

Also, open carrying is just gonna invite unwanted attention. If you open carry here in TN, State Rangers are obligated to take your firearm, unload it, and verify with dispatch that your permit is valid. If you're in the middle of the woods, that could take a while. If there are children present, you may also be asked to leave.

Also, other than dedicated areas such as skeet, trap, and range, or an organized by the state hunt, discharging a firearm on park property is an offense. So for example, you see a scary snake and decide to shoot it, you would be breaking 2 laws, as all snakes are protected in TN.

If you're gonna conceal and carry, shouldn't be any issues. Also I know a lot of guys will camp at state parks and hunt in the state forest. As long as their long guns were unloaded, secured, and out of sight in the park they never got hassled. People might complain about field dressing a deer in the campground, but there's no law against it :P

So in TN, conceal ok, open carry ok but stupid, long guns no.

Oh please. Rangers are not obligated to do any of that. I've open carried plenty on the trails in state parks. Never had an issue. A ranger asked if I had a carry permit once. I said I did and showed it to him. He said "Enjoy your hike". Other hikers have never said a word either. Secondly you are allowed to shoot an animal if you perceive it to be an immediate threat of bodily harm. Edited December 20, 2012 by bkelm18

[Paladin132]

This was simply a thread asking about the law. I am not asking for opinions on it.

That said. Do you own an AR? How about a weapon with more than six rounds in it? A semi automatic of any kind? Why would you need that kind of firepower? The argument makes the antigunners argument for them.

I ask because drug dealers grow weed on public land, a side effect of confiscation laws is an increase in it. I ask because of large animals that I enjoy but which may take it in their head to have me for lunch. I ask because I was curious. I ask because it is my right. I ask because I have been in situations where I could not annoy you fine folks on the boards had I not the ability to defend myself with lethal force and in the woods there could be a larger standoff distance if engaged by a hostile human. I ask because I cannot dial 911 from many day hikes much less a campsite two days hike in the woods.

I do not appreciate OC being referred to as stupid. We are all gun owners and we should be respectful. I do not and have not OC'd although I consider it for the backcountry. It is their right to do so. Agree or disagree, please be respectful.

[DaveTN]

Oh please. Rangers are not obligated to do any of that. I've open carried plenty on the trails in state parks. Never had an issue. A ranger asked if I had a carry permit once. I said I did and showed it to him. He said "Enjoy your hike". Other hikers have never said a word either. Secondly you are allowed to shoot an animal if you perceive it to be an immediate threat of bodily harm.

It’s from another thread. A ranger disarmed an HCP holder during a traffic stop. Now we are going to get out that wide brush and start painting.

[Guest bkelm18]

It’s from another thread. A ranger disarmed an HCP holder during a traffic stop. Now we are going to get out that wide brush and start painting.

 

 

Oh silly me. I forgot that this was the internet. :)

[Guest bkelm18]

This was simply a thread asking about the law. I am not asking for opinions on it.

That said. Do you own an AR? How about a weapon with more than six rounds in it? A semi automatic of any kind? Why would you need that kind of firepower? The argument makes the antigunners argument for them.

I ask because drug dealers grow weed on public land, a side effect of confiscation laws is an increase in it. I ask because of large animals that I enjoy but which may take it in their head to have me for lunch. I ask because I was curious. I ask because it is my right. I ask because I have been in situations where I could not annoy you fine folks on the boards had I not the ability to defend myself with lethal force and in the woods there could be a larger standoff distance if engaged by a hostile human. I ask because I cannot dial 911 from many day hikes much less a campsite two days hike in the woods.

I do not appreciate OC being referred to as stupid. We are all gun owners and we should be respectful. I do not and have not OC'd although I consider it for the backcountry. It is their right to do so. Agree or disagree, please be respectful.

 

I wouldn't worry a whole lot about animals. Get a can a bear spray. I'd stake my life on that over a handgun for bears. As for drug growers, I've honestly not heard much of anything like that in the Federal or State parks around here. Not saying it doesn't happen, but probably rare.

Edited December 20, 2012 by bkelm18

[Guest ochretoe]

This was simply a thread asking about the law. I am not asking for opinions on it.

That said. Do you own an AR? How about a weapon with more than six rounds in it? A semi automatic of any kind? Why would you need that kind of firepower? The argument makes the antigunners argument for them.

I ask because drug dealers grow weed on public land, a side effect of confiscation laws is an increase in it. I ask because of large animals that I enjoy but which may take it in their head to have me for lunch. I ask because I was curious. I ask because it is my right. I ask because I have been in situations where I could not annoy you fine folks on the boards had I not the ability to defend myself with lethal force and in the woods there could be a larger standoff distance if engaged by a hostile human. I ask because I cannot dial 911 from many day hikes much less a campsite two days hike in the woods.

I do not appreciate OC being referred to as stupid. We are all gun owners and we should be respectful. I do not and have not OC'd although I consider it for the backcountry. It is their right to do so. Agree or disagree, please be respectful.

As a Park Ranger I thank you for asking.  You have the correct answer so I will not wade in.  It does make a differance to me that you ask first instead of just doing what you want.  I hope you enjoy your hike.  It has been a great winter so far for hiking and camping. 

 

Just as a side not, I worry about Drug growers and cookers in the state parks also.  I can't give details, but it happens.  If you have a permit please carry.

[JReedEsq]

I've done lot of hiking in both State Parks and the GSMNP in the last few years. I rarely open carry, but I have on occasion and I'm definitely less concerned about concealment when in the forest.  I've never had a bad interaction with a Ranger or other hikers.  I would carry in whatever way is comfortable for you and just drape a shirt or jacket over it if you can.  Being polite and respectful to others goes a long way.  I'm constantly surprised by people who aren't gun people are more accepting about carry if the concern is wild animals with four legs.  Don't get me wrong, I'd definitely protect myself and my wife and my family from a wild animal, but the primary way we do that is sealing our food in plastic bags and making lots of noise.  Personally, I think a good reason to carry when hiking is that it's one of the only places we go with little chance of cell phone service and little chance of LEO availability on short notice.  

 

I recently had a discussion with a lawyer who formerly worked in a Federal Government Agency in a western state.  He said drug growers and labs on public lands are a very real danger that is not often publicized.    

Edited December 21, 2012 by JReedEsq

[Paladin132]

Ochretoe: Any suggested hikes / things to see in E Tn? Thanks for the posts folks. Just thought I would ask is all, was not planning on toting my M4 (although it would not hurt my feelings at all to carry a long gun). There is more research comming on the academic side talking about the problem of growers. Its a sad thing, but then again it is no surprise. Sorry for the delay and short response - the silly season is upon us after all. I hope you all had a Merry Christmas.

[Guest ochretoe]

The Cumberland Trail is a very new linear park that runs from Jacksboro to Chattanooga.  I really like the North section starting very near Cove Lake State Park to Black mountain.

[10-Ring]

Can't speak as much for state parks but I've done a lot of OC in GSMNP and never had a single issue.  I have spoken with Rangers who have commented that I would be stupid not to be carrying out there.  Even the tree hugger types that may not approve of carrying a gun anywhere else seem to understand why someone would carry one in a remote location such as deep in the park.

[Paladin132]

That is interesting to know 10 ring. I have not OC anywhere and am not all that interested in doing so, but in the park back country it is an option that keeps coming to mind.

[monkeylizard]

 Also I know a lot of guys will camp at state parks and hunt in the state forest.  As long as their long guns were unloaded, secured, and out of sight in the park they never got hassled.  People might complain about field dressing a deer in the campground, but there's no law against it :P

 

I don't know if it's a policy in all parks or just specific ones, but I know I saw a sign at either Chickasaw or Frozen Head stating that camping in the park for use as a base camp for hunting nearby non-park land was prohibited.