FAL, M1As, or another Garand?

[Guest TNSovereignty]

Hard for me to phrase the question I have but I'll try.  In the market to get a few more guns while I can ... I'm really looking on behalf of my 2 sons, aged 8 & 6.  Looking to the future with hopes they'll have farms/homesteads of their own one day.  

 

Been shopping for the DSA SA58, maybe an M1A, or the trusty old M1.  I have one of the latter & love it.  Never shot either of the other 2 options.  I have nothing else in the safe in .308 or 30-06, so I'm not hankering to get into another caliber.  Just want to have good, longer-range homestead defense weapons.  My particular situation doesn't really demand hi-capacity mags either ... I think I'd do fine with 8-rd enbloc clips.  

 

A Garand just doesn't look/handle right with a scope so that limits my range considerably ... limited by my eyes, not the round.  But I'm also constrained by my wallet ... a couple of FALs with optics will easily set me back $3K each.  

 

So, should I get 2 Garands at the cheaper price, then work on training my boys to be 200 yard riflemen without all the fancy/expensive optics?  If I go the FAL or M1A route then I'll be able to afford 1 rifle, with hopes they'll remain legal long enough for me to get a second in the future.  

 

Need to hear from riflemen more experienced than I who have shot these different weapons & know their capabilities/limitations.  Understand AR-10 & other options, just not terribly interested in anything else except maybe the HK91.

[1gewehr]

Those who can shoot without a scope will be equally adept with a scope-mounted rifle.  The reverse is not true. 

 

If it were me, I would buy one finished rifle of my choice, as well as a receiver for the second rifle.  The receiver is the controlled part which is liable to be banned or have reduced availability in the future.  With the receiver in hand, you can then build the rest of the rifle as funds permit.

 

Also, scopes and mounts can be added to any of those rifles at a later date.  So, you might buy two rifles and get the scopes as finances permit.

 

As for which rifle to choose, hopefully someone down towards the southern part of the state will answer.  As for me, if you want to meet at the Stones River range some Saturday next year, I'll bring a FAL, Garand, and M1A so that you can try them all.  None of my rifles have scopes, though.

[Troutburger]

I have an M1 and an M1A. 

 

I would consider a household with 3 garands and plenty of clips well armed. Its hard to argue with the success of the M1. 

 

That said 20 round M1A or FAL magazines are going to get scarce.

 

Could you buy the M1's and some M1A mags?

I doubt the M1A in its 5-10 round configuration will be going anywhere. 

[peejman]

Hard for me to phrase the question I have but I'll try.  In the market to get a few more guns while I can ... I'm really looking on behalf of my 2 sons, aged 8 & 6.  Looking to the future with hopes they'll have farms/homesteads of their own one day.  

 

Been shopping for the DSA SA58, maybe an M1A, or the trusty old M1.  I have one of the latter & love it.  Never shot either of the other 2 options.  I have nothing else in the safe in .308 or 30-06, so I'm not hankering to get into another caliber.  Just want to have good, longer-range homestead defense weapons.  My particular situation doesn't really demand hi-capacity mags either ... I think I'd do fine with 8-rd enbloc clips.  

 

A Garand just doesn't look/handle right with a scope so that limits my range considerably ... limited by my eyes, not the round.  But I'm also constrained by my wallet ... a couple of FALs with optics will easily set me back $3K each.  

 

So, should I get 2 Garands at the cheaper price, then work on training my boys to be 200 yard riflemen without all the fancy/expensive optics?  If I go the FAL or M1A route then I'll be able to afford 1 rifle, with hopes they'll remain legal long enough for me to get a second in the future.  

 

Need to hear from riflemen more experienced than I who have shot these different weapons & know their capabilities/limitations.  Understand AR-10 & other options, just not terribly interested in anything else except maybe the HK91.

 

This.  Assuming the kids have good eyes, 300 yds with irons should be doable with a bit of practice. 

 

While DSA likes to claim 0.5 MOA from their FAL's, I remain unconvinced.  A typical FAL is a 2-3 MOA gun.  While a 6" group at 200 yds won't impress a national match shooter, it's still adequate for the purpose you mentioned.  And they're fun because most people have no idea what they are.

 

The M1A is an excellent, choice as well.  Lots of options for them.

 

Bang-for-your-buck (pun intended), the Garand is hard to beat. 

[DMark]

JMHO......,

 

You already have a Garand so getting either a FAL or M1A opens up new and different firearm experiences for your sons.  You may find in the future that one son takes to the Garand while the other does better with the FAL or M1A.

 

The M1A is easier to scope if that is what you wish to do.

 

The FAL is the better Battle Rifle (again JMHO).

 

Mark

CMP Master Instructor

[Mike]

FAL, any day of the week.

[Guest TNSovereignty]

Thanks for the quick response from everyone; I like what I'm hearing.  Having read Boston T. Party's 'Gun Bible' (+ similar input from DMark) I'm leaning toward getting an FAL.  Have no idea how successful this next gun-control blitz will be so I could end up with a great new battle rifle with no ability to legally obtain magazines.  And when I buy a semi-auto I usually budget for a LOT of magazines.  

 

Good advice on developing rifleman skills in my sons.  Knocked around scopes & battery-powered devices are potential vulnerabilities that I need to train the boys for. 

 

Those who can shoot without a scope will be equally adept with a scope-mounted rifle.  The reverse is not true. 

Great point!

 

Never know what the young ones might want to do but I'm not interested in matches or 1/2" MOA.  I want to hit dinner plates at 300 yards, and further out if I end up with good optics.  Will post pics when I eventually get what I'm after.  

[tnhawk]

Can't go wrong with a M1A and several mags.

[GoneBallistic]

Since you already have an M1, I would go with a couple more of the same. This way you can buy extra parts, ammunition, etc. to fit all three guns. If one goes down, you can always use it for parts.

 

This is in light of the recent gun control surge.

Edited December 19, 2012 by GoneBallistic

[Guest TNSovereignty]

Just found these on the CMP site ... any advantages to going to .308 on the Garand?  My existing M1 is in ought-six so I'm inclined to stick with and reload only one caliber unless I'm missing something spectacular in the .308.  Read my reloading books & have looked at ballistic tables/data but will still like to check w/ all the knowledge that's here.  

 

If I do end up getting an FAL then this might be a dandy .308 companion:

 

M1 Garand, CMP Special (.308) ... $995
M1 Garand Springfield Armory receiver. This is a completely refurbished rifle consisting of an original M1 Garand Springfield receiver, new production Criterion barrel, new production American Walnut stock and handguards, and new web sling. Receiver and most other parts are refinished USGI, but some parts may be new manufacture. A .308 spacer block is installed to prevent the loading of a .30-06 round into the chamber.

[Guest TNSovereignty]

Since you already have an M1, I would go with a couple more of the same. This way you can buy extra parts, ammunition, etc. to fit all three guns. If one goes down, you can always use it for parts.

 

This is in light of the recent gun control surge.

Yep - I do appreciate that ... wise counsel.

[DMark]

Just found these on the CMP site ... any advantages to going to .308 on the Garand?

 

Some folks are taking these .308 Garands and making them into what is called "Unlimited M1 Garand Rifles" for CMP matches. 

 

These .308 (I'd rather call them 7.62) Garands can be build up with National Match modifications that would otherwise make them illegal in a CMP Garand match.  Common NM accurizing mods include glass bedding, match sights, modified upper hand guards, etc., etc.  These M1s only shoot in their Unlimited category and not against the as-issued Garands.  Even without any NM mods these .308 Garands would still be an unlimited rifle when shooting in a CMP match since the as-issued Garand requires a 30.06 cartridge.

 

If you don't plan to shoot CMP matches, the advantage would be that it would share the same round as a FAL, M14, G3, M240, etc., etc.

 

Mark

CMP Master Instructor

[1gewehr]

In stock, GI-issue form, all three rifles are normally about 2-3moa out of the box.  The M1A and M1 can be tuned to get under 1moa.  The FAL was not designed for that.  While folks have and can build a 1moa FAL, it's neither cheap, nor easy.  My favorite FAL shoots reliably at 1.5moa with Australian surplus ammo.  I bought a boat-load back when it was available.  It shoots just over 3moa with the more common Portuguese surplus.  Go figure.  Other folks have said their rifles like the Portuguese, British, South African, German, or other ammo better.  My rifle shoots it all.  It's just most accurate with Aussie.

 

I prefer the FAL for it's ergonomics, reliability, quick cleaning, and ability to use ANY .308 ammo out there.  The M1A does not have an adjustable gas system, and you must tune the rifle if you use heavier or lighter loads than normal GI-spec ammo.  The Garand should ONLY be fired with ammo spec'd for the Garand.  Heavy bullets are notorious for bending expensive operating rods.

 

If you decide you must use glass, the FAL and M1A are the best platforms.  Simply because they both have excellent quality easy-to-install mounts available.  Scoping a Garand is best done by making it an M1D clone.  That involves machine work (or buying a new barrel), and modifying the stock and handguard.

 

All three are proven combat designs.  Keep in mind that the more you modify it, the more you will likely affect reliability or durability.  There are some amazingly accurate M1As out there.  But, those rifles are kept scrupulously clean and never see rainy, muddy, or sandy conditions.

[Guest TNSovereignty]

The Garand should ONLY be fired with ammo spec'd for the Garand.  Heavy bullets are notorious for bending expensive operating rods.

I've read about the Schuster DCM adjustable gas plug so the Garand can be fed commercial 30-06 ammo ... but I don't have experience with this.  My reloading manual has data for M1 ammo which has been reliable & accurate ... I haven't ventured beyond that.

 

More great advice - thanks DMark & 1gewehr.  Like the look of the LRB M14s - quality is expensive, eh? 

 

Another thought beyond performance - maybe the non-gunnery statists will never see the Garand as an 'assault rifle' ... maybe even the M1A in walnut will pass muster!  But I definitely want to get an FAL while there's still a chance.  I started shopping for this before BHO started this latest round of gun-control chatter ... judging by the clogged phonelines & filled answering machines at DSA I may be too late for a new FAL.

[Tempest455]

The Grand is a mighty good rifle. I have a SA restored with a Kreiger match barrel and a nice Winchester CMP w/ stock SA barrel.

 

Even the stock SA barrel shoots well enough with surplus HXP ammo I can put all 8 on a silhoutte at 400 yards.

[Guest TNSovereignty]

Thanks for everyone's advice. Just to follow up, my son & I drove down to CMP yesterday & bought 2 'new' Springfield Garand specials ... new walnut stock with 'nearly new' condition barrel/receiver, all USGI. CMP is running low on their stock; the only rack or service grade rifles were H&Rs. I'll get another service grade Springfield when they come back in ... that will cover my 3 sons ... if they want another MBR in the future they're on their own ;)

Also picked up a bunch of new en bloc clips, some of the surplus Greek ammo, along with a couple of slings & bayonets for good measure. Handed over $2.2K & walked out with change - couldn't do that w/ the other options I was looking at. We'll shoot this weekend & see what kind of MOA we get ... I'm expecting 2-3 MOA, and may work on accurizing from there. We're not interested in CMP-sponsored competitions, just want to be good riflemen. Edited January 4, 2013 by TNSovereignty