Tennessee Considers Training and Arming School Teachers to Protect Against Shootings

[Guest TNSovereignty]

Gee guys ... I'm personally wary of this proposal.  I'm very careful about who I let my kids get in the car with, let alone putting them in a classroom with someone I'm barely acquainted with who is also armed.  I know I'm swimming against the tide on this one.  Just a humble opinion that I wouldn't demand others follow, but I think a great option that hasn't been mentioned is to bring the kids home for homeschooling.  I've got 2 graduates & 4 still in the home program, and while I know it's not for everyone, I can't think of a better way to both defend and educate them.  And it doesn't cost the state a dime of money or a nickel of government effort - they actually thwart me at every turn, but that's the education establishment for you.  I know I'm not offering a nationwide solution but I leave it open for those of you who might consider it for your own families. 

[dralarms]

Well, I'm one the other side of the fence, I'm for removing ALL restrictions and making them post if they don't want anyone carrying.

 

Just a side note, I was told by someone in a school system that they would not mind me carrying my gun in the school and that they do gun deals in the parking lot (in full view of their cameras) all the time.

 

It's not rocket science. Let each school district decide if they want armed teachers in their schools.

[gregintenn]

What would be the downside of completely eliminating the gunbuster signs and the legal weight they carry? I belive that would solve several problems, and not be an extra burden on the taxpayer.

[dunndw]

As a HCP instructor, I'd really like to see additional training requirements past the "standard" state HCP course. We ALL know it's not all that. They need to be trained in drawing from the holster, strong and weak side one handed shooting...etc. Something along the lines of Personal Protection Outside the Home.

I don't have kids, I'm not a big fan of other peoples kids, but I'd sign up to patrol a school for free one day a week in a New York Minute

[R_Bert]

Stacey Campfield reported that CCA and another trainer in Nashville offered free permit classes to educators if the legislation passed.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I would think that firearms related companies would get behind something like this. Ask them to donate products or services and the taxpayers cost might disappear completely. Great PR program for them.

Also allow carry by all HCP holders.

To those that think SRO's are the solution I offer the wisdom of Ronald Reagan. "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." January 20, 1981

SRO's are the governments solution. I prefer smaller government and using private solutions whenever possible. I realize that teachers work for the government but allowing them to volunteer for a program like this doesn't increase the bureaucracy.

This action would do more good than just one thing. It would be solving a genuine problem, and, since it is "for the children",

it would make the politicians look in another direction to continue their anti-gun fight.

 

Another example of Reagan always being timely and accurate. :D

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Gee guys ... I'm personally wary of this proposal.  I'm very careful about who I let my kids get in the car with, let alone putting them in a classroom with someone I'm barely acquainted with who is also armed.  I know I'm swimming against the tide on this one.  Just a humble opinion that I wouldn't demand others follow, but I think a great option that hasn't been mentioned is to bring the kids home for homeschooling.  I've got 2 graduates & 4 still in the home program, and while I know it's not for everyone, I can't think of a better way to both defend and educate them.  And it doesn't cost the state a dime of money or a nickel of government effort - they actually thwart me at every turn, but that's the education establishment for you.  I know I'm not offering a nationwide solution but I leave it open for those of you who might consider it for your own families. 

But how many permit holders or armed guards have shot up places? Homeschooling I'm sure is great, but it

isn't for everyone. And, realistically speaking, how can a working married couple with three kids home school

them while breadwinning if they are having barely making ends meet? I will never knock a homeshooler, but

it is an option, not everyone's solution.

Edited December 22, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[Guest TnRebel]

I fully support this.

 

In fact I was thinking earlier today they should considering hiring Vets as armed guards at schools.

 

I mean there would have be serious background and mental evaluation checks done. Make sure they are not suffering from any PTSD.

 

Plus I would not want to see the position likened to a mall cop.  Make it a position of respect, maybe even have the vet lead Plead of pledge of allegiance. 

sorry to burst your bubble .... but there is no such thing as a veteran who has seen combat that does not have some form of PTSD some are just more sever as others . .... this from a Vietnam Vet

[Guest TNSovereignty]

But how many permit holders or armed guards have shot up places? Homeschooling I'm sure is great, but it

isn't for everyone. And, realistically speaking, how can a working married couple with three kids home school

them while breadwinning if they are having barely making ends meet? I will never knock a homeshooler, but

it is an option, not everyone's solution.

Not going to get into an argument with anyone over this - I tried to make the exact point that homeschooling isn't for everyone.  But for those who are exceptionally concerned about their child's welfare - i.e. they're losing sleep over school safety - there ARE options that can provide for education and security in the comfort of one's home.

 

I make less than the median income, my wife stays at home, and we're out of debt.  Married with 6 kids - we own our farm free & clear because we worked & saved.  Still plenty leftover to buy guns & ammo.  We shop at thrift stores, have a lot of second-hand stuff.  People make choices - my choices allow me to live free.  Anyone tries to invade my "school" is invading my home, and they meet up with me & Mr. Garand.  

 

Other people choose to be constrained by debt, massive mortgages, and an unsustainable lifestyle.  Problem is too many then then expect me to subsidize their lifestyle via increased taxes, legislation, licensing, and regulation.  I already subsidize other children's public education through taxes - well & good.  Glad you're not knocking homeschoolers, but I DO knock anyone who proposes ideas - even nominally good ones - that may require further confiscation of my meager income.  When I hear about arming teachers - especially ones currently unfamiliar with weapons - I see a potentially large & ongoing expense for training, range time, and ammo.  I see property taxes going up & new bonds floated, all in the name of our childrens' security.  So I'm OK with existing ccw-holders carrying their weapons into the classroom ... but I'm surprised any gun owning parent would get excited about it.  We gun owners know how challenging it is to stay proficient with a weapon.  I've been trained over the course of thousands of rounds of ammo and thousands of hours of practice to hit perps & avoid bystanders ... and in training scenarios I still occasionally spray a couple of rounds.  Just think parents should think twice about delegating the tremendous responsibility of protecting one's child ... its not as simple as giving Susie the kindergarten teacher a practical pistol course.  (No offense to anyone named Susie ;))

 

So I'm not hounding anyone to follow my lead - although I'd welcome the company of other countercultural nuts. 

Edited December 24, 2012 by TNSovereignty

[jb980]

The idea is to allow all the teachers to exercise their right to protect themselves, and in doing so eliminate that one big gun free zone that all these "misunderstood" statement makers all flock too. I think that arming at, tax payer expense, a few "chosen protectors" is only slightly better than it is now and isn't really dealing with the root cause behind schools being made targets for these "mistreated" people.

By allowing the teachers to protect themselves they would in turn be protecting the students because the students and teachers would no longer be completely unarmed, and the man planning the attack would more than likely choose a softer target where he could inflict maximum damage before being stopped.

And if, god forbid, they(the armed teachers) accidentally harm one of the students while trying to stop the maniac from shooting ALL of the students, I believe I can live with that, because until someone puts a bullet into those sickos, they will continue to harm innocent people.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Not going to get into an argument with anyone over this - I tried to make the exact point that homeschooling isn't for everyone.  But for those who are exceptionally concerned about their child's welfare - i.e. they're losing sleep over school safety - there ARE options that can provide for education and security in the comfort of one's home.

 

I make less than the median income, my wife stays at home, and we're out of debt.  Married with 6 kids - we own our farm free & clear because we worked & saved.  Still plenty leftover to buy guns & ammo.  We shop at thrift stores, have a lot of second-hand stuff.  People make choices - my choices allow me to live free.  Anyone tries to invade my "school" is invading my home, and they meet up with me & Mr. Garand.  

 

Other people choose to be constrained by debt, massive mortgages, and an unsustainable lifestyle.  Problem is too many then then expect me to subsidize their lifestyle via increased taxes, legislation, licensing, and regulation.  I already subsidize other children's public education through taxes - well & good.  Glad you're not knocking homeschoolers, but I DO knock anyone who proposes ideas - even nominally good ones - that may require further confiscation of my meager income.  When I hear about arming teachers - especially ones currently unfamiliar with weapons - I see a potentially large & ongoing expense for training, range time, and ammo.  I see property taxes going up & new bonds floated, all in the name of our childrens' security.  So I'm OK with existing ccw-holders carrying their weapons into the classroom ... but I'm surprised any gun owning parent would get excited about it.  We gun owners know how challenging it is to stay proficient with a weapon.  I've been trained over the course of thousands of rounds of ammo and thousands of hours of practice to hit perps & avoid bystanders ... and in training scenarios I still occasionally spray a couple of rounds.  Just think parents should think twice about delegating the tremendous responsibility of protecting one's child ... its not as simple as giving Susie the kindergarten teacher a practical pistol course.  (No offense to anyone named Susie ;))

 

So I'm not hounding anyone to follow my lead - although I'd welcome the company of other countercultural nuts. 

No, I'm all for homeschooling for anyone who cares to do it. Please don't misunderstand me. It's just that some people are

incapable of doing it, for a variety of reasons. I would have much rather taken that course, also, instead of putting my two

in private schools, because the public schools were totally inadequate after considering and trying them for a year.

 

We relied on both incomes to pay the bills at the time our kids came around. It just wasn't a choice for us. The folks around

Clarksville we met who did home school were exceptional parents and the kids were coming up just fine. They had group

support from other home schooling families and were much better prepared than any school I had ever been exposed to.

 

If anything, you should be proud to say you did it.

[E4 No More]

And you think teachers will be better? I'm married to a teacher and have been around them for the last 20 years. Most of them don't have it in them.

We have a resource officer here in Sullivan County that shot and killed a guy trying to enter a local HS with a gun last year. Teachers are currently working so many hours they do not have time to be trained appropriately.

I think that a teacher has the right to protect their self just as you and I do. Cops have no duty to protect, so why would we expect different from a cop in a school?

[Rightwinger]

Do you guys know many teachers? We'd be better served by a progam to increase our school resource officers.

 

 

I know many, and the closest one resides with me.  She has been CERT trained so she is already expected to save lifes so why not let her defend them as well?  Make the rules simple again.  Come to a school or someone's home with intent to harm and get your butt shot.  You nor your family have any recourse beyond visiting in the hospital or the graveyard.  Even the mentally imbalanced seek the gun free zones to do their evil.  Make it known that those zones are few and far between.

[Pat]

This would be a great thing, for Tennessee and for America...

[JWKilgore]

And you think teachers will be better? I'm married to a teacher and have been around them for the last 20 years. Most of them don't have it in them.

We have a resource officer here in Sullivan County that shot and killed a guy trying to enter a local HS with a gun last year. Teachers are currently working so many hours they do not have time to be trained appropriately.

I agree that most teachers "don't have it in them". But it doesn't take "most", it only takes a few trained dogs to guard a flock of sheep.

 

I know many of the teachers at my son's school. At least two of them (both women) posted Facebook Christmas pictures of their new weapons... one a hunting rifle and one a pretty pink handgun. I know several others who who hunt or shoot for sport. Many of them have kids in the same school. All of these normally nice women turn into mama bears when their cubs are in danger. All would WELCOME the opportunity for self-defence training (similar to what might be required for an Enhanced HCP) with the ability to have a handgun hidden in a locked box in their room.

 

I also agree with the statement above about accidentally hurting one or two children in the process of saving dozens. Which has a higher liability... one child getting hurt in a crossfire between a madman and an armed teacher, or 20 children getting slaughtered because the only thing the teacher could do is run or stand there and die?

[leftyk82]

Got an email back from my congressman today after i voiced my position and he is "against the new bill requiring all teachers to carry."

He either misspoke or doesn't know the bill very well.

[Worriedman]

Got an email back from my congressman today after i voiced my position and he is "against the new bill requiring all teachers to carry."

He either misspoke or doesn't know the bill very well.

Most Congresspeople have no clue whether they are washing or hanging out.

[jgradyc]

Here is a possible solution. Feel free to take it and modify it as you like.

 

Place gun safe(s) in all schools. Stock them with visibly distinct rifles (perhaps hunter orange stock), laser sights, a 2x scope, and frangible ammo. Solicit multiple teacher volunteers for training at each school. (Many teachers already have CCW, so they would be logical choices.)  Program the safe by fingerprint scanner to only open when scanned by one of those fingerprints. Automatically contact law enforcement electronically when the safe is opened or tampered with.

 

A scoped rifle would reduce the risk of hitting innocent bystanders and reduce risk to the volunteer who could engage from a distance. Frangible ammo would reduce the risk of penetrating a wall. A laser "print" on the chest would probably cause most of these cowards to stop shooting and surrender without a shot being fired. The fingerprint scanner would reduce the risk of unauthorized access. The presence of armed, trained personnel would greatly reduce the risk of shootings at schools.

 

Today, schools are crime-friendly zones.  Ask your liberal friends if they would put up a yard sign "This is a gun free house" at their own home. Why would you do it at your kids' schools?

[shortround]

Never underestimate the maternal instinct to defend children. I doubt any person on Earth is more dangerous than an armed woman protecting a child.

[E4 No More]

Never underestimate the maternal instinct to defend children. I doubt any person on Earth is more dangerous than an armed woman protecting a child.

You got that right! If there's no escape they will be tenacious in their fight to protect the young.

[mcurrier]

“From what I know of almost all of the active shooter events in the U.S., almost all of them conclude with the shooter taking his own life the moment he is challenged by the first officer on the scene,” Zwerling said. “Why not challenge him earlier?”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/12/27/armed-teachers-guards-key-to-school-security-in-israel/#ixzz2GI4oGPdo

[mcurrier]

Sheriff Arpaio sending armed posse to protect schools

 

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Sheriff-Arpaio-is-sending-posse-to-protect-schools-185012341.html