Tennessee Considers Training and Arming School Teachers to Protect Against Shootings

[LI0NSFAN]

I love  this idea of teachers or more officers being armed at schools. I visited an inner city school that had a great idea that seems to work. It was put in place because gang members would come in the school and shoot rival gang members. They had those buzzer locks put on all classroom doors with bullet proof glass on the door. You had to be buzzed in and out of ALL doors in the school. the only time doors were unlocked was when classes were changing. All of the doors also had alarms on them if they did not close after 2mins so noone could prop a door open. They also had an override in the office so they could unlock all doors at one time for fire or emergencies, they could also lock all doors to help control any threat. It sounds drastic but they had 5 incidents after implementing this and all the threats stoped after the word got out that the school goes on lockdown at first sign of a threat. Plus they saw tardiness and general misconduct go down 75%.

[mikegideon]

School RSOs are expensive.

Tax payers are stingy.

Armed staff is free.

 

See where this is going? :)

Well, it's hard to increase budgets. Personally, I would pay the extra tax to cover it.

[Paladin132]

Wow. Guess you guys would not want a legally armed instructor with two deployments in five years of active duty in the classroom with their weapon.

Guess I really do need to find another line of work... Edited December 19, 2012 by Paladin132

[JayC]

Well, it's hard to increase budgets. Personally, I would pay the extra tax to cover it.

 

I wouldn't, a single SRO per school costs more and provides less security than virtually any other option other than doing nothing.

 

The best solution is to allow all HCP holders to carry on school and college campuses, this provides a lot of security in each school at no cost.

 

The second best solution (which would not require any changes to current law) is to have departments start a reserve deputy program to provide plain clothed parents and HCP permit holders as reserve deputy/officers having at least 1 per 250 students.  This should not cost more than $1k-$2k per school a year.

 

Finally, allowing all teachers with a carry permit to carry on school grounds, and provide them a little extra training in active shooter situations, probably would cost $4-6k a year per school.

 

All of these choice are less expensive, and would result in a better protected school.

 

As far as this proposed bill, where a single person whether it be an SRO or a randomly selected teacher is a bad bill, it provides very little security over what we have today.

[Guest Razz]

Ask for a parent to volunteer providing they meet the criteria AND have a child in the same school. They volunteer once a month for an 8 hour shift and in return they get to deduct 1% of their property taxes for each day they volunteer within a calendar year.
 
If teachers volunteer to carry then give them a 10% pay increase for the added responsibility. Provide them with a Glock and require them to keep it on their person at all times while on school grounds or during a school even.
 
Dolomite

I like the idea of parents volunteering. I would gladly volunteer but I would want some training, first. I would also be happy to pay for that training...

[mikegideon]

I wouldn't, a single SRO per school costs more and provides less security than virtually any other option other than doing nothing.

 

The best solution is to allow all HCP holders to carry on school and college campuses, this provides a lot of security in each school at no cost.

 

The second best solution (which would not require any changes to current law) is to have departments start a reserve deputy program to provide plain clothed parents and HCP permit holders as reserve deputy/officers having at least 1 per 250 students.  This should not cost more than $1k-$2k per school a year.

 

Finally, allowing all teachers with a carry permit to carry on school grounds, and provide them a little extra training in active shooter situations, probably would cost $4-6k a year per school.

 

All of these choice are less expensive, and would result in a better protected school.

 

As far as this proposed bill, where a single person whether it be an SRO or a randomly selected teacher is a bad bill, it provides very little security over what we have today.

I agree with you. But, it may be the only way to get it through. A hysterical parent is a loud thing.

[Paladin132]

Thanks Dolomite. Posting from a phone it always tries to "help" and usually chews it up instead!

[Guest bkelm18]

Quite honestly surprised to see so many here against this. The fact that any state is considering pro-gun legislation at this time should be viewed very positively. TN is likely never going to allow HCP carry on school grounds, but this is a very positive step in the right direction. They are recognizing the deficiencies in the current system and are taking steps to address it. How this is a bad thing I can't fathom. :shrug:

[mikegideon]

Quite honestly surprised to see so many here against this. The fact that any state is considering pro-gun legislation at this time should be viewed very positively. TN is likely never going to allow HCP carry on school grounds, but this is a very positive step in the right direction. They are recognizing the deficiencies in the current system and are taking steps to address it. How this is a bad thing I can't fathom. :shrug:

I'm in. The killer is gun free zones. Any way to eliminate that is a great start. They can tweak it later.

Edited December 19, 2012 by mikegideon

[JayC]

I agree with you. But, it may be the only way to get it through. A hysterical parent is a loud thing.

Passing bad ideas, is worse than doing nothing...  I refuse to support bad ideas, just because they may advance a cause I believe in....  Increase the cost of government by adding a single SRO to schools is just about the worse option to protect students.  Why should we supposed bad choices?

 

Quite honestly surprised to see so many here against this. The fact that any state is considering pro-gun legislation at this time should be viewed very positively. TN is likely never going to allow HCP carry on school grounds, but this is a very positive step in the right direction. They are recognizing the deficiencies in the current system and are taking steps to address it. How this is a bad thing I can't fathom. :shrug:

How is this pro-2nd amendment legislation?  It creates yet another protected class that with the governments permission can carry a firearm where the rest of us can't?  It only provides for a single person per school (what happens when that teacher is sick?)...  And it's about the least effective method to really protect students.

 

It's a bad plan, and doesn't increase the rights of law abiding citizens in TN, why on earth would I want to support that?

[mcurrier]

I hate it when my Spidey sense goes off and a scary idea pops into my melon...

 

How many can see them posting TSA goons in schools?  Has nothing to do with the T part, but that doesn't matter to big-Gubmnt.  Most people would relate TSA to airports, but we've already got TSA/DHS Viper program operating on TN interstate highways.  No one thought that would ever happen either.

[Guest 270win]

I think we should all be able to carry in schools, but this is better than nothing.

[Wyldk2]

If my "breaking the law" act in carrying on school grounds stops an individual before he/she can kill kids is wrong, then i'd rather live with the conciousness that i saved a life instead of following the law and not helping. If the state would allow HCP holders into gun-free zones without fear of prosecution during a potential "CT type shooting", then maybe that would help. Since we cannot know when that might happen, we as HCP holders should be allowed into gun free zones since the police and those with the authority to be in those zones cannot be everywhere at once. But i still don't think there is any sure fire solution to the problem. I oppose any form of gun confiscation or ban( as we all know those policies do not work). Maybe everyone in the country needs to have a mental evaluation( president and politicians and those in power not excluded). Even evaluate the police, returning vets from afganistan or any other "war zone" deployment.

 

Just ideas, i'm not saying we have to implement these. But somethings got to change for real. Not just talk and make promises that aren't kept. But real change for the future.

 

It's not about gun control, it's about people control. Once they control your guns, they can control you.  

Edited December 19, 2012 by Wyldk2

[JayC]

The last thing we need is to give the government more power to regulate our lives...  Evil people will do evil things, give law abiding citizens the ability to carry the most effective form of self defense available.  Oh and that is pretty much what the 2nd Amendment says :)

[chemprof]

As a college prof, I would LOVE to  be able to carry--many stories I could share.  I'll pay for any additional training and I don't need any pay raise (although I wouldn't turn it down).  Hope something can  be done!

[mav]

Not having any kids, I had no idea what a school resource officer was.  We didn't have those when I was in school.  It is amazing how things can change in a decade or two. 

 

I am all for this bill.  Allowing teachers to arm themselves is a great deterrent for the would be crazies out there.  If something like this passed, it essentially ends the gun free zone crap, so I don't see why they wouldn't take it a step further and allow all HCP holders to carry on school property.

[Guest Wildogre]

Teachers being allowed to carry is a good idea Utah as allowed it for years and they have not had a single incident of negligence by a teacher or a school shooting.

 

As for all HCP holders being allowed to carry in a school I do not think that would pass, it should but not in todays climate.

 

Now if you allowed only HCP holders who had kids in that school to carry in that school that may have more than a snowballs chance in "a small town in Wisconsin https://maps.google.com/maps?q=hell+wisconsin&ie=UTF-8&ei=mR7TULbWKJTV0gGv-ICABQ&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAA"  chance of passing.  

[LI0NSFAN]

Teachers being allowed to carry is a good idea Utah as allowed it for years and they have not had a single incident of negligence by a teacher or a school shooting.

 

As for all HCP holders being allowed to carry in a school I do not think that would pass, it should but not in todays climate.

 

Now if you allowed only HCP holders who had kids in that school to carry in that school that may have more than a snowballs chance in "a small town in Wisconsin https://maps.google.com/maps?q=hell+wisconsin&ie=UTF-8&ei=mR7TULbWKJTV0gGv-ICABQ&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAA"  chance of passing.  

I think you meant small town in Michigan. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=hell+wisconsin&ie=UTF-8&ei=mR7TULbWKJTV0gGv-ICABQ&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAA

[Guest Wildogre]

@STAHDKnoxville, you are correct. Not enough coffee, that's my excuse and I am sticking to it. 

[Worriedman]

What our House Speaker has to say...

 

http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/content/city-news/harwell-opposed-arming-teachers-unsure-mass-shootings-effect-tn-gun-bills

Edited December 20, 2012 by Worriedman

[jc102888]

So this bill sounds awesome! I have teachers in my family, as well as my wife will be working in the school as well. I as well as them are all for it! My question is, who do we write or email to help get this thing some momentum?

[Paladin132]

I wrote a rather lenglty email to State Senator Niceley and basically said I was concerned with his approach because I wanted the right to preserve my life in the event that some criminal started that in my classroom. He replied within a couple of hours and said he agreed completely. Unforunatly, and I explained it to him when I wrote him, I work in this state and so I do not vote. I was still thankfull for the short response from him though.

[JWKilgore]

I came here to see if this was being discussed, and I'm glad it is.

 

I have my TN HCP, but I rarely carry on my person. The problem is that I have two kids. I'm always going to their school/daycare, to public parks, and to other areas where carrying is illegal. My work requires that I maintain a spotless criminal record. I undergo regular background checks and drug screenings, basically every time we get a new client. I cannot risk any sort of weapons charge, so I don't carry beyond a revolver secured in my vehicle.

 

Personally, I'd like to see all "gun free zones" eliminated unless the administrator of that zone provides adequate supplemental security (i.e., lots of armed guards in courthouses and airports, so I'm OK with not being allowed to carry there). And private property trumps all; just like I can restrict who is allowed to carry in my living room, a business owner can restrict who is allowed to carry in a restaurant. But telling all law-abiding citizens that they can't protect themselves in a public area full of potential targets? Not a good thing.

 

Unfortunately, allowing anyone with a HCP to carry anywhere is not likely to happen any time soon. So now we look at this proposed law. Even if this law passes in its best form (allowing ALL teachers to voluntarily carry with additional training), it only fixes schools. What about public parks? Sporting events? Concerts in public buildings?

 

As mentioned earlier, Mississippi already has an optional "enhanced carry" permit. MS has generally lax carry permit requirements (fill out a form and submit fingerprints... no training), with many restrictions on where you can carry. Throw in some training similar to TN's regular HCP training and now you can carry in most normally restricted areas. You still can't carry in courts, police stations, or federally restricted areas, but other areas are allowed.

 

Is there any support for something similar to this in Tennessee? As a start, this would require additional class time over the basic HCP class, plus actual range/firing training with re-certification (new background checks, new training) every so many years. School systems could pay for teachers/administrators to obtain the certification, provide them a weapon and practice rounds, plus a small bump in pay to cover extra expenses. Half a dozen armed teachers would be FAR FAR cheaper and MUCH more effective than hiring a full-time security guard.

[tnhawk]

I'll support any bill to remove the "gun free zone" status from our schools. This has done nothing to protect our students from harm.

[ttocswob]

My favorite part of the article:

 

Niceley's bill would allow schools to pay for background checks and firearms training for teachers that woud allow them to be armed as well. Asked if the guns for the trained teachers would also be part of the taxpayer expense, Niceley laughed.

"Well, that's a minor detail in Tennessee," he said. "We hoped the teachers would have them already."

 

A few more comments like that and Niceley might get his "+" back!