Should police be allowed to stop adults from retrieving items from their flooded hom

[Guest Hyaloid]

I can see both sides. The time to fight these sorts of things is before a disaster, or after one has been resolved. I personally think once it is verified that the person lives there, if they accept responsibility for the danger, then they should be allowed to return to their homes.

One of the unintended consequences can be found in hurricane states. Now, many folks WON'T seek shelter or safety because they are afraid that they won't be allowed to return to their homes after the storm, so they decide to 'wait it out'.

Surely there is a happy medium.

[Guest bkelm18]

Well, now that we know the story, the officer was justified in pulling his weapon.

[Punisher84]

I changed my mind after, ahem, actually reading the associated story. Imagine basing your opinion on what actually happened!

The story is here. This part describes the picture sequence above:

If the guy actually 'struck' the trooper with his truck, he's lucky he's not dead...

OH MY GOD! You mean someone posted a story without getting all the facts? You mean they saw a picture and started a cop bashing thread without posting the full story?! I don't believe you! LIES ALL LIES!

Damn police for doing their jobs. I say we let them all retire and fend for ourselves! I bet everyone here can do a much better job anyhow. Noone will ever second guess you!

This crap is starting to get pathetic.

[Guest nraforlife]

You can see why people don't want to evacuate areas anymore.

[Guest bkelm18]

OH MY GOD! You mean someone posted a story without getting all the facts? You mean they saw a picture and started a cop bashing thread without posting the full story?! I don't believe you! LIES ALL LIES!

Damn police for doing their jobs. I say we let them all retire and fend for ourselves! I bet everyone here can do a much better job anyhow. Noone will ever second guess you!

This crap is starting to get pathetic.

[Punisher84]

Roll 'em all you want. It's the truth.

[TGO David]

Roll 'em all you want. It's the truth.

Yes, it is the truth and you're not the only one to notice it. I've been noticing this disturbing trend more and more lately but haven't really been able to put together a coherent thought about it that wouldn't come across as a disciplinary rant.

For some reason it seems to me that there is an unusually large percentage of RTKBA folks who really have a chip on their shoulder about the police. I think it has to do with the fact that a lot of RTKBA people are Libertarian to some degree and that they see cops as being "The Man" or at least henchmen of "The Man". Reference Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc. for the fuel to their fire.

The problem is, most cops aren't that way at all. I had the extreme pleasure of getting to shoot with and cut up with a few of them this weekend. GREAT guys, each of them. None of them wore jackboots and none of them wiped their muddy shoes off with my Constitutional rights. Unfortunately many citizens only get to interact with the police on the occasion that someone did something wrong and the cop had to do something about it in his or her professional capacity. Like getting pulled over for speeding.

Sure there are some bad cops out there, but there are some bad doctors, bad dentists, bad school teachers, bad construction workers, bad priests, bad preachers, etc. We typically don't vilify those professions just because somewhere someone decided to be a jackass on the job.

Walk a mile in a man's shoes and your opinion of that man might change. Some of our members would probably do well to remember that when they start in on the cop bashing.

[KahrMan]

Yes, it is the truth and you're not the only one to notice it. I've been noticing this disturbing trend more and more lately but haven't really been able to put together a coherent thought about it that wouldn't come across as a disciplinary rant.

For some reason it seems to me that there is an unusually large percentage of RTKBA folks who really have a chip on their shoulder about the police. I think it has to do with the fact that a lot of RTKBA people are Libertarian to some degree and that they see cops as being "The Man" or at least henchmen of "The Man". Reference Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc. for the fuel to their fire.

The problem is, most cops aren't that way at all. I had the extreme pleasure of getting to shoot with and cut up with a few of them this weekend. GREAT guys, each of them. None of them wore jackboots and none of them wiped their muddy shoes off with my Constitutional rights. Unfortunately many citizens only get to interact with the police on the occasion that someone did something wrong and the cop had to do something about it in his or her professional capacity. Like getting pulled over for speeding.

Sure there are some bad cops out there, but there are some bad doctors, bad dentists, bad school teachers, bad construction workers, bad priests, bad preachers, etc. We typically don't vilify those professions just because somewhere someone decided to be a jackass on the job.

Walk a mile in a man's shoes and your opinion of that man might change. Some of our members would probably do well to remember that when they start in on the cop bashing.

+1 Well said!

[G27]

Yes, it is the truth and you're not the only one to notice it. I've been noticing this disturbing trend more and more lately but haven't really been able to put together a coherent thought about it that wouldn't come across as a disciplinary rant.

For some reason it seems to me that there is an unusually large percentage of RTKBA folks who really have a chip on their shoulder about the police. I think it has to do with the fact that a lot of RTKBA people are Libertarian to some degree and that they see cops as being "The Man" or at least henchmen of "The Man". Reference Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc. for the fuel to their fire.

The problem is, most cops aren't that way at all. I had the extreme pleasure of getting to shoot with and cut up with a few of them this weekend. GREAT guys, each of them. None of them wore jackboots and none of them wiped their muddy shoes off with my Constitutional rights. Unfortunately many citizens only get to interact with the police on the occasion that someone did something wrong and the cop had to do something about it in his or her professional capacity. Like getting pulled over for speeding.

Sure there are some bad cops out there, but there are some bad doctors, bad dentists, bad school teachers, bad construction workers, bad priests, bad preachers, etc. We typically don't vilify those professions just because somewhere someone decided to be a jackass on the job.

Walk a mile in a man's shoes and your opinion of that man might change. Some of our members would probably do well to remember that when they start in on the cop bashing.

Excellent post, thank you.

[Punisher84]

Yes, it is the truth and you're not the only one to notice it. I've been noticing this disturbing trend more and more lately but haven't really been able to put together a coherent thought about it that wouldn't come across as a disciplinary rant.

For some reason it seems to me that there is an unusually large percentage of RTKBA folks who really have a chip on their shoulder about the police. I think it has to do with the fact that a lot of RTKBA people are Libertarian to some degree and that they see cops as being "The Man" or at least henchmen of "The Man". Reference Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc. for the fuel to their fire.

The problem is, most cops aren't that way at all. I had the extreme pleasure of getting to shoot with and cut up with a few of them this weekend. GREAT guys, each of them. None of them wore jackboots and none of them wiped their muddy shoes off with my Constitutional rights. Unfortunately many citizens only get to interact with the police on the occasion that someone did something wrong and the cop had to do something about it in his or her professional capacity. Like getting pulled over for speeding.

Sure there are some bad cops out there, but there are some bad doctors, bad dentists, bad school teachers, bad construction workers, bad priests, bad preachers, etc. We typically don't vilify those professions just because somewhere someone decided to be a jackass on the job.

Walk a mile in a man's shoes and your opinion of that man might change. Some of our members would probably do well to remember that when they start in on the cop bashing.

Thank you Tungsten.

[saintsfanbrian]

Now, the gestappo tactics of the State Troopers? Unless his car was originally pointed at an individual they have no business pulling guns on him and damaging his property to get him to stop.

Okay, so he was using his car as a weapon (I still don't like gestappo tactics but it appears that they were justified.)

I don't have a problem with Police officers - only @$$4073$.

Go on about your business.

[The Rabbi]

Yes, it is the truth and you're not the only one to notice it. I've been noticing this disturbing trend more and more lately but haven't really been able to put together a coherent thought about it that wouldn't come across as a disciplinary rant.

For some reason it seems to me that there is an unusually large percentage of RTKBA folks who really have a chip on their shoulder about the police. I think it has to do with the fact that a lot of RTKBA people are Libertarian to some degree and that they see cops as being "The Man" or at least henchmen of "The Man". Reference Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc. for the fuel to their fire.

The problem is, most cops aren't that way at all. I had the extreme pleasure of getting to shoot with and cut up with a few of them this weekend. GREAT guys, each of them. None of them wore jackboots and none of them wiped their muddy shoes off with my Constitutional rights. Unfortunately many citizens only get to interact with the police on the occasion that someone did something wrong and the cop had to do something about it in his or her professional capacity. Like getting pulled over for speeding.

Sure there are some bad cops out there, but there are some bad doctors, bad dentists, bad school teachers, bad construction workers, bad priests, bad preachers, etc. We typically don't vilify those professions just because somewhere someone decided to be a jackass on the job.

Walk a mile in a man's shoes and your opinion of that man might change. Some of our members would probably do well to remember that when they start in on the cop bashing.

I have personal friends who are cops. I've never personally had a bad experience. That is irrelevant to the issue of police abusing their powers. You can't deny it doesn't happen. It does. And when it does it creates a serious problem not just for the poor sap involved but for society in general.

And when a teacher is bad it does not create the issues that a bad cop does, because the officer on the side of the dark highway at night with the motorist is essentially god. This is why it is crucial.

It is unfortunate that legitimate criticism of police tactics that overstep their boundaries is perceived as "cop bashing." No doubt in some cases it is. But in other cases it is bringing an important issue up. I'd prefer to think of the other side as "Constitution bashing."

As for this scenario for the record I think LE acted exactly right. It was a declared disaster and normal rules don't really apply.

[Punisher84]

I have personal friends who are cops. I've never personally had a bad experience. That is irrelevant to the issue of police abusing their powers. You can't deny it doesn't happen. It does. And when it does it creates a serious problem not just for the poor sap involved but for society in general.

And when a teacher is bad it does not create the issues that a bad cop does, because the officer on the side of the dark highway at night with the motorist is essentially god. This is why it is crucial.

It is unfortunate that legitimate criticism of police tactics that overstep their boundaries is perceived as "cop bashing." No doubt in some cases it is. But in other cases it is bringing an important issue up. I'd prefer to think of the other side as "Constitution bashing."

As for this scenario for the record I think LE acted exactly right. It was a declared disaster and normal rules don't really apply.

I agree with that Rabbi. My problem is when people who don't know the whole story or know a guy who's cousin ate pizza with a guy who says a cop treated him poorly, then start bashing ALL cops. There are bad apples everywhere, granted a bad apple in law enforcement is a bad apple with a ton of power. I just wish people here would take a second to consider things before they post. There are a lot of "monday morning quarterbacks" on the internet and it seems like TGO has a higher than normal rate of them when it comes to what they think they know about policing.

I also think this is why some officers have mixed feeling about concealed carry. They have come across one to many people with the "Us vs. Them" attitude. That seems to be the problem on both sides of the fence.

[TGO David]

It is unfortunate that legitimate criticism of police tactics that overstep their boundaries is perceived as "cop bashing." No doubt in some cases it is. But in other cases it is bringing an important issue up. I'd prefer to think of the other side as "Constitution bashing."

I agree and would like to emphasize that this sentiment is exactly why we insist that members of TGO debate issues rather than attack individuals (or professions).

A lot of "cop bashing" would be averted if people would just state facts, leave out emotion and avoid brash generalizations. It's one thing to say that a particular police officer was a complete dick when he pulled you over for a burned out headlight, beat you with his Maglite, kicked your dog and insulted your preference in whiskeys.

It's another to say that all cops are dicks because of what that one guy did. And how DARE he insult your preference in whiskeys. How DARE he.

[TGO David]

There are a lot of "monday morning quarterbacks" on the internet and it seems like TGO has a higher than normal rate of them when it comes to what they think they know about policing.

It's not just here. It's on a lot of forums. But like one cop told me a while back... if he had wanted to be popular and have everyone love him, he would have become a fireman.

I also think this is why some officers have mixed feeling about concealed carry. They have come across one to many people with the "Us vs. Them" attitude. That seems to be the problem on both sides of the fence.

It's probably also why a lot of officers don't feel very welcome on civilian oriented forums. Which is a real shame if you think about the mutual advantages that exist when civilians and police officers have a common understanding of things.

My goal for TGO is for it to be a place that you can come and discuss firearms ownership issues regardless of which side of the badge you are on. That's why this latest rash of "cop bashing" really has me concerned.

[strickj]

Umm, the US Supreme Court has stated the police have ZERO responsibility to protect individuals, ergo, the lawsuit would have zero merit.

An interesting law suit would be holding the police and administrators responsible for any property stolen/lost because the person wasn't able to reach his property. That would be a fun one to follow.

That wouldn't be protecting,it would be rescuing a life!

I'm pretty sure thats what the EMS,Coastguard,and fireman are there for!

On the lost property,Umm you mean that useless couch floating down the river

[Guest slothful1]

It's another to say that all cops are dicks because of what that one guy did.

Since you seem to perceive this as a trend, can you point out instances where anyone on TGO has recently said this, or the equivalent?

[strickj]

Since you seem to perceive this as a trend, can you point out instances where anyone on TGO has recently said this, or the equivalent?

Just look around!

You will find one!

[Guest darkstar]

It doesn't seem to me that there has been a lot of cop bashing going on. By that I mean there isn't a bunch of "pigs suck" or "down with the man" crap going on. Have people been getting irate and testy when discussing the issues regarding LE? Yes.... thats pretty much how it goes in the real world. I have been on record as stating I support LE 100%. I'm thankful they are there to do their jobs. I am completely un-supporting of cops or other LE that abuse their positions, be it gross negligence, "fixing" tickets for their buddies, abusing their authority, or just being a dick. Sorry but LE professionals are (fairly or not) judged to a higher standard. Just because someone may not have a problem with a perception that LE is acting improperly doesn't mean that people who do question their methods are bashing cops. As far as I know no one in here has taken to the streets calling for "the man" to be strung up or any such thing. I don't see how members here disagreeing with or questioning statements made by our LE members is cop bashing. Sure some exchanges have gotten testy but in the long run no one was pulling a kwi......uh, asked to leave, or got booted, or censored.

Hey, if we can overcome he who shall not be named we can deal with anything in here.

[G27]

Well, I'm a relative newbie here, and while I'm one to stand up for my rights, I also respect those who serve and protect. That being said, while I'm too lazy to do the research for you, there have been few threads in the few months I've been here that have shown a few people to be decidedly anti-cop.

Sometimes I agree with their sentiments as I've had a few cops in the past that obviously relished their authoritative role, but a vast majority of the cops I've ever met were basically normal guys who put themselves on the line each and every day for us.

[Guest killemducks]

I have been here a little while and I don't think I have witnessed any cop bashing. I am not a cop. I don't like getting a ticket either.

I think both sides need to chill.

Cops, understand folks ain't gonna like the fact that you give them a ticket for 40 in a 35, or doing your duty to protect and serve by keeping people from putting their own stupid selves in harms way. Either way, you are doing something that some folks don't like and there are negative feelings that sometimes flow from that. Just the way it is. Sorry, get over it.

Private Citizens, Cops are just doing their job the best way they know how, yes they know that some of their counterparts are less than desirable and shouldn't be L'd-nothing, but some of your counterparts in the private citizen world shouldn't be L'd for nothing either!! And remember that 40 in a 35 is breaking the law and if you get a ticket, well, ya broke the law. And if a LE tells you to keep out because it is unsafe, keep the hell out for a while, dang. There ain't no conspiracy. Sheesh, for all the LEs know, you are a looter. Show some respect for your fellow man and his job. If you have a complaint, file it, don't come here and complain to us first.

We have to live together.....show some respect.

Oh yeah, the guy got what he deserved.

Bill

[towerclimber37]

Well, I'm a relative newbie here, and while I'm one to stand up for my rights, I also respect those who serve and protect. That being said, while I'm too lazy to do the research for you, there have been few threads in the few months I've been here that have shown a few people to be decidedly anti-cop.

Sometimes I agree with their sentiments as I've had a few cops in the past that obviously relished their authoritative role, but a vast majority of the cops I've ever met were basically normal guys who put themselves on the line each and every day for us.

well said!

it's the same with many folks here on the board.

I haven't met any officers here on the board, but a few have come to shoots with us in NE Tn, they were great folks!

Still, I've met some real buttholes that had no business in Law enforcement..

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

Personally, I think that the perception of cop-bashing, et al., is mostly a product of misunderstanding by both sides. It seems that some people want to misconstrue statements by police as supporting any and all actions of the folks in blue. It seems that other folks want to construe any questioning of police actions as bashing the entire nationwide police force.

This is not to say that there aren't folks who really do occupy those positions, but I think they're few and far between.

In the end, I think that the us vs. them mentality ends up feeding on itself. If I'm a cop, and I've grown weary of the real cop-bashers out there, then I'll probably get to a point where I start expecting people to feel that way. I'll start seeing it where maybe it doesn't exist. Maybe I'll start getting defensive where I don't need to. In turn, the guy on the other side of the fence perceives that I'm getting defensive, which just proves his view that the damn cops are circling the wagons.

We start seeing what we expect to see in our perceived enemy, and it just feeds our misperceptions, while the misunderstanding grows. It's a downward spiral.

[dariks]

I think there has been too much cop bashing here as of late, but I will say, that I do not believe they have a right to stop me from going to my own home.

Can someone clearly define what cop bashing is? Is it questioning police actions? Is it bad mouthing cops in general because of one particular cops actions? Is it bad mouthing a particular cop because of the treatment you received (deservedly or not)? Is it <fill in the blank>?

To be clear, I am most definitely not trying to sound like a jerk here. I am just trying to understand what is and is not considered cop bashing.

[dariks]

I don't think the police have any right to keep them off their own property, BUT they are only following the orders. I see the problem as being one of the local government deciding that it's "not safe" for anybody to be in the area.

I think this is why a lot of times people don't want to leave their homes. They are afraid they won't be let back in to save what they can (possessions, pets, home, etc). I neither need nor want to be protected from my own stupidity. If I make a mistake or endanger myself, then the responsibility rests solely on my own shoulders and I should not reasonably expect someone else to rescue me if I go into a dangerous area like that.