New silhouette size? What are the new requirements for HCP test?

[undefined]

I noticed that Guns and Leather in Hendersonville was doing a carry class and they had a new silhouette that can be used for shorter ranges. The silhouette was small (maybe 16" across?), and I heard the instructor say that you needed to hit the 7 ring for it to count. Could anyone provide further details on the new requirements? How many shots, actual size of new silhouette, shots / range, and % necessary to pass?

[Viracnis]

If it changed, it was recent.  My wife retook hers in early November (she let the certificate expire on the first one) and her target was the same size as mine from a year ago.

 

Her grouping was a lot smaller, though.  Must have been a defect in the paper on mine. :P

Edited December 17, 2012 by Viracnis

[LngRngShtr]

it is common for Highpower rifle and NRA Bullseye to use smaller targets to simulate a proper range sight picture

 

I recall someone saying that G&L Hendersonville wasn't a long enough range to hold classes but with recent developmnents in Greenbrier perhaps they got the OK to use a smaller target to simulate the proper distance required for the course thus the "7 ring to count" which might work out to the proper target size at the proper distance ( larger target further out ) so they can still hold the classes while they rebuild.

 

 I am sure when G&L Greenbrier is back up that will be normal targets and hopefully if this is the reason they will continue classes in both locations.

 

Just my thoughts,

John

[Trekbike]

I noticed that Guns and Leather in Hendersonville was doing a carry class and they had a new silhouette that can be used for shorter ranges. The silhouette was small (maybe 16" across?), and I heard the instructor say that you needed to hit the 7 ring for it to count. Could anyone provide further details on the new requirements? How many shots, actual size of new silhouette, shots / range, and % necessary to pass?

I can add a little info but I had some of the same questions since my kids are scheduled to take their class at the H'ville G&L in about a week.   I talked to Amanda and found out they are having to use the B-29 target instead of the B-27.   I measured one and here's the dimensions.

 

B-29

Overall size is 11.5" wide x 22" tall

The body torso is 9.5" wide x 14" tall

The head dimension is 3" widest part x 4" tall

7 ring is 7" wide x 10.25" tall

 

I'm very curious about the 7 ring or better comment to count even though the shooting range is shorter. I question that it factors out to the same equivalent since on the normal B-27 you are still shooting at 3 and 7 yards and are only losing the 15 yard distance at the H'ville store.  

 

When I did mine at GB G&L 4 years ago you only had to hit the "black" on the B-27 target which is huge in comparison.  

 

Old target size

Overall size is 23" wide 34.5" tall

The body torso is 20.5" wide x 22" tall

The head dimension is 7" widest point x 11" tall

7 ring 12" wide x 21.5" tall

 

I put the reduced size B-29 target on top of the normal target and the B-29 black part of the silhouette (including head) will fit inside the 7 ring of the normal target.    The 7 ring on the B-29 is about the same size as the 9 ring on the normal target.   I say all of that to question that the 7 ring requirement is fair.   Maybe it is but it doesn't appear that way at first glance.  

 

I would like to know the distances that you have to shoot at the H'ville store as well.  I assume they are keeping same 70% passing requirement.  

[EastHipster]

What is the max distance for the test there?
The Range is less than 30' long...and most people aren't sending their targets to the very end of the range there anyway (target piles up on the mulch.

The B29 is a 1/3 scale target.
I would bet they are doing the long shots at 15'

They aren't going to bring the close shots in.
You could just poke holes in it with your Barrel :)
Maybe they could add a Bayonet portion to the test

[undefined]

I should have mentioned that the instructor said the longest distance students have to shoot at the smaller target was 21 feet.

 

My curiosity was based mostly on the much smaller sized target and how many hits/misses count as passing. The impression I got, which is probably wrong, was that it was 100% or fail - which would be great in terms of students actually learning how to shoot accurately, but I know some people with HCP who couldn't hit a 7" wide x 10.25" tall target at 21ft distance reliably every shot.

[EastHipster]

Definitely not 100%

As I recall, there are more than enough easy shots where you can pass without the long shots.

[LngRngShtr]

According to the website Hendersonville is only 35 ft. ??

[JayC]

Is this just a guns and leather thing or a change from the state?

[c.a.willard]

Its just a Guns and Leather thing and is a result of the shorter range.  The hendersonville range max length is just a little over 11.5 yards.  To meet the requirements of firing at a man sized target at further distances than what the range can accomidate a scaled target is used. 

[JayC]

Its just a Guns and Leather thing and is a result of the shorter range.  The hendersonville range max length is just a little over 11.5 yards.  To meet the requirements of firing at a man sized target at further distances than what the range can accomidate a scaled target is used. 

 

I didn't think TN law required a certain length of range?  Or documented the number of rounds at a certain distance.

[Oh Shoot]

I didn't think TN law required a certain length of range?  Or documented the number of rounds at a certain distance.

 

Range requirements aren't in the statutes. They are just in the rules written by TNDOS to the vendors. They aren't published anywhere I can find either. And no, the instructor PDF on site there doesn't show them either, beyond some basic safety requirements.

 

- OS

Edited December 26, 2012 by Oh Shoot

[JayC]

Range requirements aren't in the statutes. They are just in the rules written by TNDOS to the vendors. They aren't published anywhere I can find either. And no, the instructor PDF on site there doesn't show them either, beyond some basic safety requirements.

 

- OS

 

Sounds like it's time for a drive down to TDOS and make a public records request then ;)  Maybe I can swing down there next week...  I think that is something we want available for members of the community don't you?

[Oh Shoot]

Sounds like it's time for a drive down to TDOS and make a public records request then ;)  Maybe I can swing down there next week...  I think that is something we want available for members of the community don't you?

 

Sure. But likely available in hard copy only?

 

Ask a local place that teaches the course, see if they'll make you a copy might be simpler.

 

- OS

[itchytriggerfinger]

Yes, and I think applicants should have to hit 100%.  It's a controlled range environment at what I consider to be easy distances.  If you can't do 100% in the range, you definitely can't do it in a crisis situation.  I was at the range last week shooting .22 at 25 yards and I brought my target up to find six 9mm holes in the paper.  WTF?  The guys shooting beside me were at 5 yards and all over the silhouette. 

[JayC]

Sure. But likely available in hard copy only?

 

Ask a local place that teaches the course, see if they'll make you a copy might be simpler.

 

- OS

 

I can scan a hard copy in, but I suspect they have it in a pdf or word format :)  Also for me, it's probably quicker to go hit them up for a public records request than try to find a local instructor that has a hard copy (unless somebody here in Nashville has a current copy they wouldn't mind donating so it can be scanned and posted online).

[Tri-Cities Bob]

The new firing requirements can be used by Tennessee handgun schools immediately, but it will be mandatory on April 1, 2013.  A total of 50 shots will be required.  The new target is the "B-9", which is a 50-foot reduction of the old B-7, 50 yard silhouette target we all know and love.  The B-9 target is roughly 1/2 the height and 1/2 the width of the B-7 target, which makes it about 1/4 the overall size of the B-7.  The shooting distances are:  20 shots at 3 yards, 20 shots at 5 yards, and 10 shots at 7 yards.  The minimum score required is still a 70, which is 35 hits on or inside the 7-ring of the B-9 target (not just within the silhouette, as before).  Additional revisions of the classroom curriculum have been promised, but no specifics or schedule has been announced yet.  Schools will also have to keep the targets and file them with the waiver forms, written exams and certificates.  If you want to keep your target you will have to let the instructor know and he/she can mount two targets and give you one when you finish shooting.

[Tri-Cities Bob]

Oops, sorry.  The target designations I have in the above comment section are incorrect.  The old silhouette target is the B-27 and the new target is the B-29.

[LngRngShtr]

Thanks Bob,

 

too bad no extra credit for X count... LOL

 

maybe next revision  

[Makiaveli]

Yes, and I think applicants should have to hit 100%.  It's a controlled range environment at what I consider to be easy distances.  If you can't do 100% in the range, you definitely can't do it in a crisis situation.  I was at the range last week shooting .22 at 25 yards and I brought my target up to find six 9mm holes in the paper.  WTF?  The guys shooting beside me were at 5 yards and all over the silhouette. 

Scary but at least they are at the range so hopefully getting better....