Civil war in Mich.

[Glenn]

I see where the unions are predicting civil war over the right to work laws in Mich. Hoffa is predicting spilling of blood. And not a peep from Obama, who is always calling for civil discourse. I don't think he minds at all if the union thugs commit some violence against his opponents. I guess I just have my tin foil hat on.

 

Glenn

[Oh Shoot]

I see where the unions are predicting civil war over the right to work laws in Mich. Hoffa is predicting spilling of blood. And not a peep from Obama, who is always calling for civil discourse. I don't think he minds at all if the union thugs commit some violence against his opponents. I guess I just have my tin foil hat on.

 

Glenn

 

Not a peep? Are you kidding? Or maybe, what else do you expect?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk1NMu6AY8s

 

 

- OS

Edited December 13, 2012 by Oh Shoot

[Rightwinger]

No worries, 60% of them will call out sick anyway that day.

[Just2Honor]

Rightwinger +1 Especialy true  if they schedule the start for a Monday!!

[Glenn]

What I was referring  to was that the White House has not condemned the violence and threats of violence  by the Unions. Can anybody say brownshirts?

[DaveTN]

It’s really very simple. If the majority of a business has voted the union it; you pay union dues. If the government wants to step in and say you can’t make workers’ pay union dues, that’s fine also, but they don’t get union benefits.

 

If Hoffa threatens violence; the Feds will destroy him.

 

 

[Glenn]

Hoffa has already threatened violence, and union thugs are already committing  it. Did you see them rip up the tent and beat the reporter?

[leroy]

The Nobamaites dont see "violence" as a problem when it is directed against their "enemies"; so it shouldnt be a surprize that they arent sayin anything about this "violence".  What you are seeing is a toned down "re-do" of what happened in wisconsin.  If the old boy that is governor of Michigan is smart (...and i think he is...), he will call out the state police and start roundin up this rabble to calm it down.

 

I aint sure he will even have to do anything to them other than say that he is goin to do this (...other than for a few hard case thugs that the union may have...).  I believe that once this is done, two things will happen:  the first is that things will calm down; the second is that the state of michigan will put the "in-justice" department on the spot.  I doubt they (...the "in-justice departent...) will take a side; because it goes against established law.  I think the "in-justice department" will keep quiet and Nobama will continue to keep quiet or give a nod of sympathy to the union rats pushin back on the "right to work" thing.

 

There has been a popular vote in michigan and legislation duly passed by the legislature allowing the "right to work."  Those who go against it (...individuals and organizations...) are committing criminal acts when they violently demonstrate or cause trouble. Thuggery is always against the law, no matter the aledged cause or catylist. 

 

The problem with the union thugs and the nobamaites is that they think that its 1933 and that there is some great "grievance" that is associated with the "right to work"; and that most people will back their position.  That simply aint so.  The only grevience in michigan is that both the people that want to work and the union rats are mostly out of work (...except for the teachers union...) and gettin poorer; and that the union bosses cant demand union dues from folks that dont believe in the union; much less want to pay any dues to it. Those who simply want to work are hopin that the "right to work" thing will put them back to work (...and i think it will , eventually...).

 

The fact is that the legislature would have never passed this "right to work" thing if there had been plenty of popular sentiment against it.  The legislators are elected by their individual constituent groups.  The dammed union rats lost, and they are tryin to intimidate and push back on those who have the power to pass legislation.  I doubt it will work.  What you see goin on in michigan should be a very instructive lesson about the "richeousness of the union cause" to those who are ambivalent about the unions and their bosses.  The union at it's heart and beginnings is a thug organization far more than a "protector of rights"; as they would have you believe.

 

This one will be interestin to watch; but i predict it will die in a week or two with a whimper.

 

leroy

[leroy]

Hoffa has already threatened violence, and union thugs are already committing  it. Did you see them rip up the tent and beat the reporter?

Somethin to think about.  I dont know for sure that beatin up a reporter (...no matter the agency...) should be classified a crime or misdemeanor.

 

leroy

[Caster]

It's Michigan, who cares.

[gnmwilliams]

It's Michigan, who cares.

I just shot Diet Coke up my nose! ROFL. Im reminded of this T-Shirt I almost bought once.

 

Edited December 13, 2012 by gnmwilliams

[Caster]

I care a LOT more for the good folks in Wyoming than the typical labor union communists up north.  Get some hot dogs and marshmallows and watch it burn.  The beautiful Cyrtanthus ventricosu also known as the Fire Lily only blooms after a raging forest fire and it usually comes in with just a week or two. Despite what people are afraid of, the fiscal cliff or even total economic collapse, there is a great potential for good things. First we must remove the malignant tumor that is currently sucking the life out of those of us that can support ourselves and actually live productive lives. Time to stop feeling sorry for these useless bastards.

[gnmwilliams]

I care a LOT more for the good folks in Wyoming than the typical labor union communists up north.  Get some hot dogs and marshmallows and watch it burn.  The beautiful Cyrtanthus ventricosu also known as the Fire Lily only blooms after a raging forest fire and it usually comes in with just a week or two. Despite what people are afraid of, the fiscal cliff or even total economic collapse, there is a great potential for good things. First we must remove the malignant tumor that is currently sucking the life out of those of us that can support ourselves and actually live productive lives. Time to stop feeling sorry for these useless bastards.

Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel. :)

[gjohnsoniv]

Or the feds will step in even more, Caster.

[peejman]

Interesting analysis of how it went down.  It clearly wasn't a over-night job.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/insight-republicans-engineered-blow-michigans-powerful-unions-061930181--business.html;_ylt=AvQ39Cd0jeJOXuo80I6M.wYJVux_;_ylu=X3oDMTIydWk2MTRkBG1pdANBVFQgSG9tZSBXaWRnZXRyb24gVGVzdCAxBHBvcwMzOQRzZWMDTWVkaWFBdHRXaWRnZXRyb25Bc3NlbWJseQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTFpNzk0NjhtBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3

[mcurrier]

[daddyo]

Steven Crowder is the "reporter" who was punched four times by one of the union thugs, and had his life threatened by another. He was trying to keep these goons from tearing down a tent that was occupied by women and children and got attacked for it.

 

Pretty clear from this that the union doesn't really care for freedom of choice and quickly resorts to violence if they don't get their way. Reminds me of some of the SEIU video that has circulated on the web in the past couple of years:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_F3oev06i0

 

These people are despicable.

Edited December 13, 2012 by DaddyO

[RobertNashville]

It’s really very simple. If the majority of a business has voted the union it; you pay union dues. If the government wants to step in and say you can’t make workers’ pay union dues, that’s fine also, but they don’t get union benefits.

 

If Hoffa threatens violence; the Feds will destroy him.

What benefits?

 

The single most "anti-union" people I know are former UAW workers who came to Tennessee to escape those benefits. ;)

 

I've had the unfortunate experience of being required to join a union to work...NEVER AGAIN and it's one of the reasons I moved to Tennessee.

Edited December 13, 2012 by RobertNashville

[RobertNashville]

I care a LOT more for the good folks in Wyoming than the typical labor union communists up north.  Get some hot dogs and marshmallows and watch it burn.  The beautiful Cyrtanthus ventricosu also known as the Fire Lily only blooms after a raging forest fire and it usually comes in with just a week or two. Despite what people are afraid of, the fiscal cliff or even total economic collapse, there is a great potential for good things. First we must remove the malignant tumor that is currently sucking the life out of those of us that can support ourselves and actually live productive lives. Time to stop feeling sorry for these useless bastards.

The problem is and the reason I care is that they aren't all labor union communists - in fact, if I remember correctly, the majority of people in Michigan, in last month's elections, rejected the constitutional amendment that would have made Michigan a permanent closed shop state.

 

I have several friends in Michigan, one very dear friend who is nearly 80 and still travels around the eastern half of the country driving one of his Datsun/Nissan Z cars to attend the same events I do....he lives in Detroit...has all his life (except for his Army time)...I don't worry about the communist union thugs in Michigan but I do care about the people who aren't communist union thugs and Michigan has recently proven that the communist union thugs are in the minority. ;)

 

[DaveTN]

What benefits?

 

The single most "anti-union" people I know are former UAW workers who came to Tennessee to escape those benefits. ;)

 

I've had the unfortunate experience of being required to join a union to work...NEVER AGAIN and it's one of the reasons I moved to Tennessee.

Well that's all fine and dandy, you can feel however you want about unions. But my point is that any time the majority of the workers want a union gone; its gone. Just because some people don't want to pay union dues doesn't make the union bad. You will always have some that feel they entitled to a free ride; we see it all the time anymore.

 

I didn't vote for Obama and its a sad state of affairs that he got elected. But the majority of the American people wanted him and now I have to deal with it. I could whine and cry and stomp my feet; but it wouldn't do any good.

 

If you don't want a union; vote them out. If you don't have the support to do that; either STFU and pay your union dues or go find a job somewhere else.... its really that simple.

[RobertNashville]

Well that's all fine and dandy, you can feel however you want about unions. But my point is that any time the majority of the workers want a union gone; its gone. Just because some people don't want to pay union dues doesn't make the union bad. You will always have some that feel they entitled to a free ride; we see it all the time anymore.

 

I didn't vote for Obama and its a sad state of affairs that he got elected. But the majority of the American people wanted him and now I have to deal with it. I could whine and cry and stomp my feet; but it wouldn't do any good.

 

If you don't want a union; vote them out. If you don't have the support to do that; either STFU and pay your union dues or go find a job somewhere else.... its really that simple.

I don't know if you've ever worked in a closed shop but it's not that easy to "vote a union out"...even hinting that you want to do so can result in a little "after hours home visit" so you'll see the error of you thought process (and no, I'm not joking about that).  Voting in and then trying to vote out a union is a a bit like picking up a crocodile by the tail...if you can keep the best swinging over your head you'll be okay but chances are he'll find a way to take your leg off even if you try to throw him far enough away from you so you can run the other direction.

 

I've nothing specific against unions; I've been in a couple voluntarily...I'm just against being mandated that I join one and pay dues just to have a job (not to mention seeing those dues being spent on things I may fundamentally disagree with).  All a "right to work" state really means is that I'm not required to join one...nothing in a right to work state prevents unions from being formed or being voted in or joined in any company; it only prevents mandatory conscription which really shouldn't cause anybody any heartburn.

 

Really; the violence by these union thugs due to enactment of such a simple, free-market concept as right to work pretty much says all that needs to be said about these unions, how they operate and what their real goals are.  If they truly have benefits to give that is worth the dues they collect then people will still join...so what are they afraid of if people have a right to choose? ;)

Edited December 13, 2012 by RobertNashville

[mcurrier]

Really; the violence by these union thugs due to enactment of such a simple, free-market concept as right to work pretty much says all that needs to be said about these unions, how they operate and what their real goals are.  If they truly have benefits to give that is worth the dues they collect then people will still join...so what are they afraid of if people have a right to choose? ;)

 

Exactly right.

[Caster]

I don't know if you've ever worked in a closed shop but it's not that easy to "vote a union out"...even hinting that you want to do so can result in a little "after hours home visit" so you'll see the error of you thought process (and no, I'm not joking about that).  Voting in and then trying to vote out a union is a a bit like picking up a crocodile by the tail...if you can keep the best swinging over your head you'll be okay but chances are he'll find a way to take your leg off even if you try to throw him far enough away from you so you can run the other direction.

 

 

If I knew nothing else about Labor Unions but this, it would be enough to carry my current opinion.  I hope and pray for their ultimate demise.  I will laugh and toast the day when every last one of them are buried beneath the soil.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Caster

[daddyo]

Unions have outlived their usefulness. Time for them to die.

[FIRERESCUEO2]

I was born and raised in MI .......... SW MI as a matter of fact. It's sad to see what has, and still is, happening to my home state ......
 

The unfortunate thing for Michiganders is that the majority of residents and districts that are typically Non-Union are often "represented" by the much heavier unionized districts such as those surrounding Detroit. The area I grew up in, Grand Rapids/Holland area, was mainly Non-Union - but was a major part/component supplier for the big 3 and almost every other automotive manufacturer in existence. When most people think "union" the UAW instantly comes to mind - but there are many other unions out there such as Electrical workers, Pipe fitters, Welders, Carpenters, Painters, Iron Fitters, Boilermakers, Shipbuilders, Teamsters, Railroad, Teachers, Bakers, Law Enforcement, Firefighters, etc...

Being raised non-union most of my life, I was taught to despise unions and everything that goes along with them. Now that I am older and have experience working with, around and for different unions, I see both sides of the unionized and non-unionized labor force and some of the things that each stands for.

I simply feel that unions do still have their place in America. I believe unionized labor has many good points, especially the skilled labor force that has no equal, but unions also have an equal or greater amount of bad points due to laziness, greed, power and politics. The union can be a great tool to protect workers in many, many ways - but it can just as easily be used to protect poor employees, bully employers, sway political votes and threaten anyone who gets in the way. Unions are a money generating machine with the power of hundreds of thousands of workers behind them that can easily influence local, state and national politics as we just witnessed in the last election.

Below is a small example of what I have come to understand/witness first hand .........

Pros-
Workers have a voice (together as a group vs single employee)
Workers have protection from employer abuse, firing and neglect
Workers have out of pocket benefit costs reduced due to large group discounts
Workers/Skilled trades usually have proper training standards including apprenticeships where applicable
Workers stand up for other union members - regardless of union affiliation

Cons-
Workers have too many rights in certain cases
Poor workers/lazy workers are protected by the union
Saturation of non-productive work force
Waste of member union dues on union parties, conventions, politics, etc.
Pressure on workers to vote/think/act the "union way"
Thug mentality

I am one of the few people that feel the unions can be a good organization used to protect the workforce - but unfortunately, just like politics, it's mostly operated and controlled by greed and power.

A few examples of both sides of the fence .......

1. A great teacher with tenure and many years of service and experience is replaced by a teacher who just graduated college with no tenure or experience due to budget cuts to the school.

2. A great worker with many years of service and experience is replaced by a new worker with no time or experience due to wage, benefit and vacation cost difference to the employer.

3. A great skilled trades worker with the proper training, education, background and skill set is replaced by a worker with little to no training or skills due to wage, benefit and vacation cost difference to the employer - putting both the new employee and those around him/her, as well as the employer, at risk.

4. A tenured teacher who could care less about teaching and preparing students for the future is protected and cannot be fired.

5. A worker who continually abuses the system, misses work, files injury claims etc. is protected and cannot be fired.

6. A worker who threatens, bullies or intimidates others is protected and cannot be fired.

7. A great worker who is 60 years old, who worked for the same company for 42 years, who never missed a day of work and has an excellent work record is replaced by an 18 year old worker just out of high school due to the company reorganizing - which really means the employer is shaving costs by hiring a new employee at a much lower wage and overall expense. Now this same 60 year old worker must go back out into the workforce and will be viewed as too old or over-experienced for most jobs.

Edited December 16, 2012 by FIRERESCUEO2