Jumping Through Hoops in Tenneessee. This has to change

[Guest sventvkg]

Maybe I'm a bit more individual liberty minded than most..I never had a job working for someone else save for my time in the Army and a few short jobs here and there for short periods of time..That said, I was extremely offended and taken aback by all the hoops I had to jump through to get my Tennessee HCP. The application was an affront against my personal liberty, the 2nd amendment and our Founders intent. I was BOILING MAD on the inside when I was subjected to Fingerprinting like a criminal. I know I must seem like an extremist for my Libertarian views but I'm happy to be put in the same category as Thomas Jefferson. I'm STILL steamed up thinking about it....I carried weapons for years living in Alaska with ZERO permits required with zero problems. Here in TN going to a class, paying that fee, paying another $115 fee to the State than having to make an appointment at yet another place (that was not easy to find) to get my fingerprints done seemed like a LOT of jumping through hoops. It should not be this way. We need a REAL political action movement to start asserting our rights. I don't believe in the NRA as they've sold us out before. I'm not aligning with any organization that doesn't believe in the "shall not be infringed" part of the 2nd Amendment. 

 

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome. Something needs to be done nationwide and the Federal Courts are not the Answer. They have already proven treasonous. Do Extreme Libertarian minded folks have no recourse but the last one?

[Oh Shoot]

I asked in another thread, you a member of the NRA and more specifically to TN law, the TFA?

 

Certainly more effective long term than the occasional forum rant.

 

- OS

[Guest 270win]

You should get a license in Arkansas.  It is even worse there and you are restricted by far more places than in Tennessee on where you can carry it.  If you carry your gun there in any one of TWENTY places, your license is totally invalid and you can be charged with 'carrying a weapon' which is a Class A Misdemeanor.

 

The application process when I got my license in AR was a pain too.  Ten pages each that had to be notarized and finger print cards.  You had to give permission to the state police to allow them to request medical records on you.  If you wanted to carry a semi auto or revolver you had to qualify with a semi auto.

[Guest sventvkg]

I asked in another thread, you a member of the NRA and more specifically to TN law, the TFA?

 

Certainly more effective long term than the occasional forum rant.

 

- OS

I don't like the NRA but if you could forward some info on the TFA I will check them out. I'm a Gun Owners Of America and Oathkeepers member.

[Guest sventvkg]

You should get a license in Arkansas.  It is even worse there and you are restricted by far more places than in Tennessee on where you can carry it.  If you carry your gun there in any one of TWENTY places, your license is totally invalid and you can be charged with 'carrying a weapon' which is a Class A Misdemeanor.

 

The application process when I got my license in AR was a pain too.  Ten pages each that had to be notarized and finger print cards.  You had to give permission to the state police to allow them to request medical records on you.  If you wanted to carry a semi auto or revolver you had to qualify with a semi auto.

I would leave that state.

[strickj]

Maybe I'm a bit more individual liberty minded than most..I never had a job working for someone else save for my time in the Army and a few short jobs here and there for short periods of time..That said, I was extremely offended and taken aback by all the hoops I had to jump through to get my Tennessee HCP. The application was an affront against my personal liberty, the 2nd amendment and our Founders intent. I was BOILING MAD on the inside when I was subjected to Fingerprinting like a criminal. I know I must seem like an extremist for my Libertarian views but I'm happy to be put in the same category as Thomas Jefferson. I'm STILL steamed up thinking about it....I carried weapons for years living in Alaska with ZERO permits required with zero problems. Here in TN going to a class, paying that fee, paying another $115 fee to the State than having to make an appointment at yet another place (that was not easy to find) to get my fingerprints done seemed like a LOT of jumping through hoops. It should not be this way. We need a REAL political action movement to start asserting our rights. I don't believe in the NRA as they've sold us out before. I'm not aligning with any organization that doesn't believe in the "shall not be infringed" part of the 2nd Amendment. 

 

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome. Something needs to be done nationwide and the Federal Courts are not the Answer. They have already proven treasonous. Do Extreme Libertarian minded folks have no recourse but the last one?

 

I agree. The hoops and taxes should be removed from the process.

I have suggested a lot here ( and to my reps over the years) that TN needs to copy GA's carry laws. Instant issue, fingerprints handled by LE (free) and applicants are charged what it costs the county to issue them - and not what the state want's to profit.

I wnet through this when I lived in GA and It only took me about an hour to complete the entire process and had my permit in hand within 4 or 5 days or so.

It takes most Tennesseans longer than an hour just to stand in the first line at the DoS.

 

No worries though. People are hard at work bickering about laws with little to no chance of ever coming up to vote, instead of removing unconstitutional restrictions and taxes.

Edited December 12, 2012 by strickj

[Guest sventvkg]

The Handgun Permit itself needs to be removed and Constitutional Carry needs to be implemented. Anything short of that is a violation of my rights, regardless of what the SCOTUS says. It's plain as day, written in common language.

[Oh Shoot]

I don't like the NRA but if you could forward some info on the TFA I will check them out. I'm a Gun Owners Of America and Oathkeepers member.

http://www.tfaonline.org/

 

TGO member Worriedman is an activist/lobbyist for the org, you can PM him for any additional info.

 

Which reminds me, my membership has lapsed, will send off tomorrow

 

- OS

Edited December 13, 2012 by Oh Shoot

[Guest bkelm18]

Yawn.

 

It would be easier to turn lead into gold than get Constituional Carry passed. SCOTUS is where the buck stops, whether you like it or not. If they make a ruling you disagree with, tough nuggets. You can either suck it up or... well not much else you can do other than write your congress critters or your preferred money grabbing... I mean freedom fighting... lobbyist group. No use having a stroke over it. Welcome to America.

[Guest Stevo2569]

My father got his carry permit no problem in Arkansas. Maybe cause he is ex military and ex police.

[Oh Shoot]

My father got his carry permit no problem in Arkansas. Maybe cause he is ex military and ex police.

 

Arkansas is a "shall issue" state, anyone can get a permit who has no disqualifying issues, same as TN.

 

The restrictions placed upon permit holders as compared with those in TN was razorback2003's point.

 

- OS

Edited December 13, 2012 by Oh Shoot

[Dennis1209]

Hey, I feel ya...

 

Look at it this way... The country is making progress (save the Peoples Republic of Illinois from which I hail). It's states rights and the will of the people at the ballot box.

 

If I were King of Tennessee, you'd be one pistol packin dude my man!

[Guest sventvkg]

Yawn.

 

It would be easier to turn lead into gold than get Constituional Carry passed. SCOTUS is where the buck stops, whether you like it or not. If they make a ruling you disagree with, tough nuggets. You can either suck it up or... well not much else you can do other than write your congress critters or your preferred money grabbing... I mean freedom fighting... lobbyist group. No use having a stroke over it. Welcome to America.

Never been good with acceptance of things that I know are wrong. Never been able to walk away. Yes I know that's a personality fault but I'm that guy. Fought for every one of my friends and family members, my country and for what's right always. Has gained me the respect, love and admiration of a few and the disdain of others. I can live with that. Something needs to be done in this country and my guess is that one way or the other it will be. I deal with the rampant corruption and loss of liberty day by day and some days I do better than others.

[Guest sventvkg]

Hey, I feel ya...

 

Look at it this way... The country is making progress (save the Peoples Republic of Illinois from which I hail). It's states rights and the will of the people at the ballot box.

 

If I were King of Tennessee, you'd be one pistol packin dude my man!

HAHA right on brother! My EDC is quite extensive as it is :)

[Wheelgunner]

@ sventvkg - I wholeheartedly agree that something needs to be done all across the country. But it seems to me that involving the federal government - even in "solutions" that look helpful on the surface, like a federal carry permit - is a mistake. The authority of our federal government over the States and their citizens is growing in a way I can only describe as out of control.

These days I think the only way to reclaim the rights we're losing or have already lost is by first setting things right in Tennessee and then using the power of the State to start nullifying unconstitutional federal laws.

[Guest TNSovereignty]

What we need is a battery of 2nd Amendment attorneys who are willing/ready/able to defend us when we carry WITHOUT the permit.  I currently have the permit & don't plan to renew it.  The only way to exert the right is to exercise it ... and without gooberment permission.  The illogic of the permit process is dumbfounding; i.e. it ain't a "right" if you have to go to classes, get fingerprinted, and hand over money.  Imagine a state (oh if it were only TN!) where enough gun owners were fed up with the status quo, and they passively rebelled by openly carrying across the entire state.  We need to look to previously successful passive rebellions (e.g. civil rights movement) as an example for the way ahead for bearing arms. 

 

Lived for 2 years in AK ... I guess I enjoyed too much of a good thing :)

[Guest sventvkg]

@ sventvkg - I wholeheartedly agree that something needs to be done all across the country. But it seems to me that involving the federal government - even in "solutions" that look helpful on the surface, like a federal carry permit - is a mistake. The authority of our federal government over the States and their citizens is growing in a way I can only describe as out of control.

These days I think the only way to reclaim the rights we're losing or have already lost is by first setting things right in Tennessee and then using the power of the State to start nullifying unconstitutional federal laws.

 

yes yes yes!!!!!

[Guest Stevo2569]

Quote
Arkansas is a "shall issue" state, anyone can get a permit who has no disqualifying issues, same as TN.

The restrictions placed upon permit holders as compared with those in TN was razorback2003's point.

Sorry. My point was. My dad said it was quick and easy. Not a PITA. Of coarse being ex military he's probably used to jumping through hoops. Lol
I have no problem with the way tn does there carry permit. Fingerprinting and all seems perfectly justifiable to me. Could be worse. Like some other states.

[Guest sventvkg]

What we need is a battery of 2nd Amendment attorneys who are willing/ready/able to defend us when we carry WITHOUT the permit.  I currently have the permit & don't plan to renew it.  The only way to exert the right is to exercise it ... and without gooberment permission.  The illogic of the permit process is dumbfounding; i.e. it ain't a "right" if you have to go to classes, get fingerprinted, and hand over money.  Imagine a state (oh if it were only TN!) where enough gun owners were fed up with the status quo, and they passively rebelled by openly carrying across the entire state.  We need to look to previously successful passive rebellions (e.g. civil rights movement) as an example for the way ahead for bearing arms. 

 

Lived for 2 years in AK ... I guess I enjoyed too much of a good thing :)

 

Good for you brother! I lived in Alaska for 10 years and I miss the Constitutional Carry as well and completely agree. I lived in Eagle River and Wasilla mostly.

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

As a non-American Citizen..I had to take at least 1 extra step when I got  my HCP in TN..And I gladly did that so I could carry. And they took my fingerprints before this plenty of times for one thing or another. I really could care less

 

Maybe I do look at things differently than most because I am not a US Citizen(yet)..

I look at a lot of things as a privilege..not a burden or as infringement... 

[Wheelgunner]

The only way to exert the right is to exercise it ... and without gooberment permission.  The illogic of the permit process is dumbfounding; i.e. it ain't a "right" if you have to go to classes, get fingerprinted, and hand over money.  

You can bet your bottom dollar that citizen, State court, and federal court would all find infringement of a constitutional right if classroom instruction, fingerprinting, fee-paying, and permit were prerequisites to everyday free speech.

[Guest sventvkg]

As a non-American Citizen..I had to take at least 1 extra step when I got  my HCP in TN..And I gladly did that so I could carry. And they took my fingerprints before this plenty of times for one thing or another. I really could care less

 

Maybe I do look at things differently than most because I am not a US Citizen(yet)..

I look at a lot of things as a privilege..not a burden or as infringement... 

 

See that's where our country differs from yours (Germany?) Our Constitution outlines God Given Natural Rights and restricts Government. Where the EU Constitution and most others in the world GRANT citizens Their rights..So the Govt is their master and any right is a Privilege...See the difference? We Take this stuff DEADLY serious here in the United States and this is the MAIN REASON we are so different at our core than ANY OTHER COUNTRY on earth..I'm not talking about or Leaders which do not represent the views of the average American (They mostly support big Corporate/Military Industrial/Banking interests). If anyone asks you what makes American different this is the MAIN THING. We are not and never will be a collectivist people. We are all about individual liberty and at some point it will come to a head in a clash of philosophy between our people. I'm hoping it remains peaceful but i'm not so sure. 

[Seabeejason]

See that's where our country differs from yours (Germany?) Our Constitution outlines God Given Natural Rights and restricts Government. Where the EU Constitution and most others in the world GRANT citizens Their rights..So the Govt is their master and any right is a Privilege...See the difference? We Take this stuff DEADLY serious here in the United States and this is the MAIN REASON we are so different at our core than ANY OTHER COUNTRY on earth..I'm not talking about or Leaders which do not represent the views of the average American (They mostly support big Corporate/Military Industrial/Banking interests). If anyone asks you what makes American different this is the MAIN THING. We are not and never will be a collectivist people. We are all about individual liberty and at some point it will come to a head in a clash of philosophy between our people. I'm hoping it remains peaceful but i'm not so sure.

I wouldn't bet on it. The socialistic pigs in this country are getting more bold by the day. They think they will take us down a little at a time. Little do they know that folks like us are just sitting and waiting. The day they come for my guns and my freedom will be the day they realize that they just pissed off the wrong group of people.

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."

-Samuel Adams

Edited December 13, 2012 by Seabeejason

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I wouldn't bet on it. The socialistic pigs in this country are getting more bold by the day. They think they will take us down a little at a time. Little do they know that folks like us are just sitting and waiting. The day they come for my guns and my freedom will be the day they realize that they just pissed off the wrong group of people.

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."

-Samuel Adams

And you're right, but when a citizen gets all huffy about something he knows to be wrong, there is no reason for him not to

rant, especially when this is where change usually starts.

 

sventvkg: keep on ranting, brother! It won't happen if you don't, and enough people might get the message and see it

to a decent conclusion.

[Worriedman]

Keeping a realistic view of the way things happen in Nashville, I welcome any and all help with the Legislature that I can get.

The major push by the TFA will be Constitutional Carry, but until we can get some true Conservative members of the House and senate elected, it is a pipe dream.  The "Moderate/Liberal" leadership we have, both in the legislature and executive branches of TN want us shoved to the side.  Harwell, McCormick and the new caucus chair Casada all view the firearms rights group as an evil to be dealt with, not worked with.  Madam Speaker has not voted in favor of a pro-gun issue in the last 5 years, don't expect her to start now.  With Matheny's ouster from the Pro Tempore spot, it will take a massive effort on the electorate's part to change the direction of an anti Rights Legislature.