7 year old boy shot dead outside gun store.

[Sam1]

Definitely not blaming the gun in any manner, just saying that the extra step that a safety or decocker adds, could've been the one to save a life. There are two variables that are present 100% of the time during an ND:

Round in the chamber
Safety was disengaged (or lacking the feature)

Mitigating either of those two would keep it from firing. Most of us are not on-duty cops and will not be in a microsecond matters, shoot out with our lives depending on it. My feelings are that flipping a lever in the process of a draw doesn't take any additional time with practice. - I know most people don't agree with this and they want their gun hot so they can fire off the first round in 0.17 seconds instead of 0.18 seconds, it's just personal opinion from my end.

[TMF]

Two things had to happen for this boy to be shot. First, the gun had to be pointed at him. Second, the trigger had to be pulled. If someone can't grasp the simple concepts that you should never point a firearm at anyone nor should you pull the trigger unless you are going to shoot something I don't see how any passive safety features would prevent this. It's like when I see stories of toddlers drowning in the family pool. All the baby gates and safety latches in the world won't help you if you aren't doing the basic steps of keeping an eye on your children. Edited December 9, 2012 by TMF

[Jesse]

I told my wife about this story last night. she already doesnt feel good about me having a gun but she said if i ever did something like this to our 6 year old
even if a mistake, she would try to beat me as much as she could then she would divorce me.

and I wouldnt blame her. this is something you dont get forgiving for. I dont even know how you would face your wife after killing your child.

[leroy]

This is a genuine tragedy. There are simply no words for this one. Guns thought to be unloaded are the most dangerous thing there is to be handled. You simply cannot afford to "think" they are unloaded. You must know they are unloaded. I saw this on a personal basis in my younger days. A family close to us had a 5 year old handle a "thought to be unloaded shotgun". She was killed on Thanksgiving Day. It almost destroyed the family; and it was a big one. The uncle with the "thought to be unloaded shotgun" never got over it.

My prayers go out to this family.
leroy

[daddyo]

I didn't start carrying or even have a loaded gun in the house until my son was older (high school), but I have made it a priority to always, ALWAYS practice all of the rules of gun safety. It was just never an option. As a result, I have never had a negligent discharge anywhere else but the range with the gun pointing downrange. I'm not bragging, but I am saying that, as gun owners, we can never become complacent about safety. Our friends and family are looking to us to be responsible, and we cannot afford to let our guard down when it comes to our safety or the safety of others. I have worked hard to earn the trust of my wife, who was concerned when I started keeping a loaded firearm in the house, and then her concern increased when I started carrying one. I simply won't risk destroying that trust by being irresponsible with my weapons. It's too big of a price to pay.

The day I become complacent about this is the day I should sell all my firearms and never carry again.

[c.a.willard]

Bottom line is his negligence was criminal. Feeling bad about it afterwards is not a defense to the crime itself. Should it be taken into account during sentencing absolutely, but he should still be tried for involuntary manslaughter/negligent homicide.

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

Its horrid that the little guy lost his life because his father didnt practice what he should have..
He has to live with it.. not sure if there is a greater punishment that losing your child, regardless how it happend.

[Guest TankerHC]

I did a little searching for details. The gun was a Tauras 1911SS9 (9mm). (One report said 1911SS9 while most of the others I read just said Tauras 9mm, so who knows) He had taken that and one of his rifles to sell at a place called Twiggs Gun Shop to sell for money for Christmas presents. Twiggs told him they weren't interested because they do not buy guns. So, the shop never physically had possession of the guns to clear. He had removed the magazine, but didn't clear the chamber. (Obviously) and had started to put the kid in a safety seat, with the gun in his hand when he pulled the trigger. The cops are treating it as an accidental shooting but may consider charges later on.

Reading some of the Gun Blogs and Gun Mag writers websites, they are being pretty compassionate on the father but still blasting him for safety procedures while the anti gunners of course are all blaming the gun. Like on one anti-gun blog where I read this "We will continue to see these tragedies with guns firing until the second amendment is repealed". Uhh, the gun didnt fire, the dad FIRED THE GUN.

Also, James Loughery is no novice, he is an experienced shooter and hunter. So he should have known better. Edited December 9, 2012 by TankerHC

[Sam1]

[quote name='TankerHC' timestamp='1355083949' post='857328']
Like on one anti-gun blog where I read this "We will continue to see these tragedies with guns firing until the second amendment is repealed". Uhh, the gun didnt fire, the dad FIRED THE GUN.
[/quote]

Hopefully those same retards get a law pushed through that outlaws breast cancer, cause that is knocking people off left and right.

[Guest dfsixstring]

Wow, many in this group have judged and passed sentence on this guy. I realize it isn't even up for consideration that the "media facts" may be skewed. It's just a sad, sad story.


Dfsixstring
SR9c
LCP
RST4S

[TMF]

[quote name='dfsixstring' timestamp='1355088945' post='857365']Wow, many in this group have judged and passed sentence on this guy. I realize it isn't even up for consideration that the "media facts" may be skewed. It's just a sad, sad story.


Dfsixstring
SR9c
LCP
RST4S[/quote]

It's hard to be "skewed" when the facts are simply the child is dead from his father's gun. Unless it was being wrestled away by an assailant when it went off, I can't think of a reasonable explanation for how a round traveled from his magazine through the boy's chest. It didn't get there by magic. Based on my limited understanding of the laws of physics, two things had to happen:

1. The pistol had to be pointed at the child,
2. The trigger had to be pulled.

There is no excuse for either thing happening, let alone both at the same time.

[Guest TankerHC]

[quote name='TMF' timestamp='1355089441' post='857368']
It's hard to be "skewed" when the facts are simply the child is dead from his father's gun. Unless it was being wrestled away by an assailant when it went off, I can't think of a reasonable explanation for how a round traveled from his magazine through the boy's chest. It didn't get there by magic. Based on my limited understanding of the laws of physics, two things had to happen:

1. The pistol had to be pointed at the child,
2. The trigger had to be pulled.

There is no excuse for either thing happening, let alone both at the same time.
[/quote]

Here is a question I have. IF the gun was a 1911SS, why was he holding it in a firing position (The gun, not the stance), A 1911 wont fire unless the palm safety is engaged and the trigger is pulled. It would be pretty awkward to to do both simultaneous without having the gun, in your hand as if you were going to fire. I know there are instances where the hammer fell without the safeties being engaged, but thats rare.

[Steelharp]

Do we even want to entertain the horrible possibility of the old "bang bang you're dead" game, played by kids of my era with capguns? The poor Dad thinking it WAS empty, and just doing that?

That would be more than horrible. I can't imagine all the thoughts in his head right now...

[jgradyc]

Hopefully, someone will comment on the news article with more details. Just based on what we can read so far, he broke so many handgun safety rules that I have trouble counting them all.

[DaveTN]

[url="http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/national_world&id=8914727"]http://abclocal.go.c...orld&id=8914727[/url]

[Guest TankerHC]

So the story that the father told the police then the police relayed to the press changed? For the last 2 days the police have been saying the father was buckling the kid in with the gun in his hand. I guess I could see in all the confusion him telling something wrong to the cops, if I did that I dont think I would have been able to speak or think coherently. Either way, "The gun went off" is now the story. Same old lame sentence that every person who has ever fired a gun negligently and shoots someone uses. "The gun went off" is speak for "Tauras and the seller get your lawyers ready, major lawsuit en-route". Especially now that he is saying he was putting the gun in the center console and it "went off" because there is no way that a store camera picked up the gun in the console or going into the console of a pickup truck with windows up to see whether or not his finger was on the trigger. Its his words against Tauras. And you may think Im jumping to conclusions, but wait and see if he doesnt file a lawsuit. This guys Facebook page shows he is a hunter. I am sure he is now anti-gun, you know with "guns going off and killing his son".

Remember, people dont kill people "guns that go off" kill people.

[DaveS]

Guns only kill people when their empty and pointed at them!

Dave S

[Guest dfsixstring]

I suppose my only point in my original post was that, based on my experience with the media - the story would inevitably change - and now it has.  We've gone from one extreme to the other with wild accusations about this guy.  I hate to say it, but the child is in a much better place than we are.  My heart goes out to this poor family and particularly this man.  I knew a guy that accidentally ran over his son and killed him while backing out of his driveway.  He never intended for it to happen.  He was in a hurry and careless and, next thing he knew, it was too late.  We all do dumb things and sometimes those dumb things hurt the ones closest to us.  There's not a punishment worse for this guy than what he's already going through - AND - will go through for the rest of his life.  My friend was NEVER the same after he ran over his son.  I'm just sorry for the whole thing happening.

[RobertNashville]

This is a genuine tragedy. There are simply no words for this one. Guns thought to be unloaded are the most dangerous thing there is to be handled. You simply cannot afford to "think" they are unloaded. You must know they are unloaded. I saw this on a personal basis in my younger days. A family close to us had a 5 year old handle a "thought to be unloaded shotgun". She was killed on Thanksgiving Day. It almost destroyed the family; and it was a big one. The uncle with the "thought to be unloaded shotgun" never got over it.

My prayers go out to this family.
leroy

This^^^

 

It's such an incredibly sad story and situation...I can't even imagine the sadness this father and this family must feel.

 

I'm a little taken back by some of the comments here. Obviously this father violated basic gun safety but how may of us have either had a ND or have come AWFULLY close to one (even if we don't want to admit it)?

 

People are human and humans make mistakes and even a lifetime of training won't change that simple truth. Training and practice can make mistakes less likely but can't guarantee they won't ever happen.

[Daniel]

I suppose my only point in my original post was that, based on my experience with the media - the story would inevitably change - and now it has.  We've gone from one extreme to the other with wild accusations about this guy.  I hate to say it, but the child is in a much better place than we are.  My heart goes out to this poor family and particularly this man.  I knew a guy that accidentally ran over his son and killed him while backing out of his driveway.  He never intended for it to happen.  He was in a hurry and careless and, next thing he knew, it was too late.  We all do dumb things and sometimes those dumb things hurt the ones closest to us.  There's not a punishment worse for this guy than what he's already going through - AND - will go through for the rest of his life.  My friend was NEVER the same after he ran over his son.  I'm just sorry for the whole thing happening.

I prefer to be above ground.

[Daniel]

 

 

I'm a little taken back by some of the comments here. Obviously this father violated basic gun safety but how may of us have either had a ND or have come AWFULLY close to one (even if we don't want to admit it)?

 

Not me.

[RobertNashville]

Not me.

well, I guess some people are perfect; the rest of us make a mistake now and then.

[Daniel]

Yeah if you make a habit of putting your finger on the trigger of your firearm when not aiming at something you are willing to destroy that happens.

[Jesse]

ive notice many of thse stories end up being someone who has used guns for a long time... do long time gun owners get too comfortable around guns?  ive even heard of cops leaving their loaded guns laying around small childern.  it seems  the importance of safety just slips their minds.

[Sam1]

Guns are designed to shoot things and it doesn't care if there is a deer, an innocent bystander or a threat on the receiving end of the barrel, it's all the same to the gun. That demands 100% proper handling, 100% of the time. I hope no one on here has ever came close to an ND.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Sam1