Yeah, another 'newoption to reloading' topic

[MississippiBoy]

I know that everyone loves to give opinions so I am asking what you think about this as an initial set-up. I plan on expanding as needed...

Lee classic turret press kit - includes press, safety primes, scale, case prep tools, and some lube.

2'x2' home made bench with counterweight on the lower shelf.

Tumbler.

I am planning on loading 9mm to start then adding .380, .300 win mag, and 30-06 Springfield. Along with other calibers as I gain guns. I am asking options before buying.


What recommendations are out there? I know I will need more space eventually but will not be storing components on the bench. I have a separate shelf for that.

Also any local places in Knoxville that carry presses or can order them? I hate ordering on line after having 2 credit cards hacked.

Thanks ahead of time.

[LngRngShtr]

if you are planning on loading rifle you may want to widen the bench to 3ft. to accomodate the trimming etc. and

Bolt it to the wall you develop lots of leverage with resizing those cases counterweights only go so far to counteract leverage away from the wall.

not sure 2x2 is enough for the press,scale and room to work you might consider 2 ft deep and 4 ft wide ( case sorting,inspection,primer tray loading etc. ) but everyone has their ideal setup I have seen folks load on a 1x8" board bolted to a kitchen table and the scale etc. on kitchen counters

I planned a 2ft. deep by 12 ft. L shaped bench with Pegboard and overhead shelf/lights mount for all my shooting workbench needs but it resides only in my mind and on paper plans for now.

John Edited December 6, 2012 by LngRngShtr

[Jonnin]

I really like the lee disk powder device for loading things like 9mm fast --- it likes small ball powders best. I really like having extra turrets, so my dies are set up and ready to go each time. I have close to 10 turrets now --- just get one every time you buy a set of dies!


lee sells used items, and those are often a bargain, so I check their site a lot.

Get a discover card. They have 1 time use software ---- you do not give your real credit card info, and if anyone steals the number, it will not work for them because it was only set up for one use. I am not sure what other cards are doing this at this time, surely some do by now? There are also similar services to do this, such as pay-pal (yuck, anti gun site) which you trust one site and the rest deal with the trusted site. A common form of theft is a keylogging virus (pretty much sends a text file of what you typed each day back to the hacker, and some are smart enough to "look" for credit cards and personal info), so you should be careful of your security on your PC.

[mikegideon]

[quote name='Jonnin' timestamp='1354826459' post='856005']
I really like the lee disk powder device for loading things like 9mm fast --- it likes small ball powders best. I really like having extra turrets, so my dies are set up and ready to go each time.
[/quote]

+1. Be sure to get the auto disk PRO and a riser. The plain auto disk is kinda cheesey.

[frankmako]

reloading equipment looks good for start up. get some reloading books. old and/or new books will work. i still pickup old reloading books for the good info they have. the first thing is to build a big and heavy bench. you will need working space and a heavy bench that will not flex when you reload rifle ammo. if you can bolt it to the wall, even better. check for used equipment also. good deals to be found on used equipment.

[MississippiBoy]

The classic kit comes with the Pro disk measure, and I am looking at bumping up to a 2'x4'competition bench. Is a 3/4 hardwood plywood top enough for the press to mount too?

Also how do you mount your presses to the bench? I am looking at over hanging the plywood because I have a 2x4 running the outside edge of the bench. Do I need to put an extra support under the plywood? I am not wanting to drill through the .703 of the plywood and the 3.75 board... I would leave about 3.75 over the bownext frame and put a 1x4 under it to spread the force if needed....

[MississippiBoy]

Also the kit comes with the Lee reloading manual.

[mikegideon]

You will need the double disk kit when you start reloading rifle. You'll like the classic turret press. I use mine for pretty much everything except critical stuff.

[jb980]

That will get you started but, you will definitely want more space when you move up to reloading for rifles. And be prepared, if you get hooked you will never have enough tools, bench space, or shelves for storing your stuff. I built a 12'x14' foot work shop with 1 3'x6' bench for reloading and another bigger one for everything else. The small bench is only going to cut it for a little while longer. Also thinking about building a bench devoted completely to casting. It's addictive. Edited December 6, 2012 by jb980

[LngRngShtr]

[quote name='MississippiBoy' timestamp='1354831543' post='856057']
The classic kit comes with the Pro disk measure, and I am looking at bumping up to a 2'x4'competition bench. Is a 3/4 hardwood plywood top enough for the press to mount too?

Also how do you mount your presses to the bench? I am looking at over hanging the plywood because I have a 2x4 running the outside edge of the bench. Do I need to put an extra support under the plywood? I am not wanting to drill through the .703 of the plywood and the 3.75 board... I would leave about 3.75 over the bownext frame and put a 1x4 under it to spread the force if needed....
[/quote]

you dont want the press to move or bench to flex, I would put 2 2x4 stringers going from front to back and bolt through them after securing them to the front and back rail and bench top so you are looking at some 5" bolts so 2 front bolts through table edge 2x4 and each rear bolt through a stringer.

I have even seen a bench that had an upright leg directly under the press between the 2 stringers but that might be a bit much.

[MississippiBoy]

The heavy duty table is the one I am thinking about building. I would adapt as needed. It is number 5 on the PDF.

http://www.strongtie.com/ftp/fliers/DIY-PROJECT08.pdf

[LngRngShtr]

Looks good,.. add your 2 stringers (side rails) and either lag or cleat to the wall and your ready to rock..might also consider a pegboard back to hang tools not in use as you will accumulate them as you progress..

[mikegideon]

When I finally get around to building my permanent bench, it will be two layers of 3/4" plywood laminated together, with a real heavy frame. I need one at least 6' long. I have the drawings. Just haven't made the time. I have a LOT of stuff, so there will be shelves too.

Fortunately, I have enough space if I shift some stuff around.

[AdotOdot4]

Extra turrets for sure.

I use the adjustable charge bar, but it took some fiddling to give repeatable drops.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Those metal brackets look real good to simplify construction especially if you haven't made lots of stuff as of yet.

If you have an electric screwdriver or a drill that will git-er-done, MAYBE the brackets are superfluous unless you need to build up a little skill first. I'm not claiming to be especially skilled with wood, but with practice am better than in the past anyway.

Elmers carpenters glue or titebond III along with screws, is just insanely strong. If the finish doesn't matter, liquid nails in the caulk tubes ain't too shabby, but dunno if it is stronger than aliphatic wood glue. Liquid nails is a whole lot more convenient but I wouldn't use it to glue up anything I planned to make a fine finish coat. Its just too easy to make a mess with liquid nails, and too difficult to get the drips off surfaces.

Just sayin, screw and glue is STRONG. I like the deck screws that have "star" holes in the screw heads, because its easier to drive them with a drill without stripping them out. Some of the star-bit deck screws even come with a free star driver bit in every box.

A few years ago needed a wood rack and made one with enough space for 4' X 8' plywood and smaller cutoffs "down below", then supports extending up above that for boards. Had a bunch of old various width "1 by" boards ripped out of the house remodeling. Ripped all that ugly stuff into 1X2 and 1X3 mostly, and didn't even use screws. Just liquid nails and the 18 gauge finish nailer (lots of nails, the nails sufficing as clamping until the glue sets, didn't clamp anything). For the vertical and crosspieces, I'd just lay linear beads of liquid nails and glue two 1X2 into 2X2 or two 1X3 into 2X3. I glued every joint, and glued in about 5" reinforcing triangles made of scrap plywood in every possible stress direction of the joints.

Just saying, didn't know how it would turn out, was just trying to make a wood rack "nearly free", but it turned out incredibly strong and not a hint of wobble. Had it about 7 years and it doesn't even hint at wobbling under load. Minimum load of wood on it right now is 500 pounds and I'm guessing closer to 1000 pounds. Pretty good for scrap wood, a little scrap plywood for joint reinforcement, glue and little finish nails. And screw and glue is generally lots stronger than nail and glue.

[gregintenn]

[quote name='MississippiBoy' timestamp='1354837892' post='856100']
The heavy duty table is the one I am thinking about building. I would adapt as needed. It is number 5 on the PDF.

[url="http://www.strongtie.com/ftp/fliers/DIY-PROJECT08.pdf"]http://www.strongtie...Y-PROJECT08.pdf[/url]
[/quote]

I would suggest you not makt the bottom shelf as wide as the top of the table as shown in the picture. You need space for your feet/legs under the table without knocking bruises on your ankles or shins. I built mine out of 2x4 and 2x6 lumber; top and all.
[IMG]http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt209/gregintenn/IMG_0253.jpg[/IMG]

[Guest Lester Weevils]

If'n I was to build another workbench would probably make it out of 2X4 and 2X6's. Use 2X6's for the main table-top, and possibly layer it with a sheet of sacrificial MDF because MDF is so dense and flat. For something like a reloading bench or electronic bench probably glue down a surface of formica, that kitchen countertop stuff. Formica I think is made of resin and paper, comes in lots of colors and patterns, and is really tough stuff. I wouldn't put formica on a woodworking or metal working bench because I'm too sloppy and it would just get all messed up with nicks and paint drips.

Most 2X6 lumber has a slight "rounded edge" that would make a grooved pattern on the top to collect dirt and dust and capture small parts. If'n I was to use raw 2X6's as the table surface (no MDF or formica on top), I'd be inclined to rip a quarter inch or whatever off each side with the table saw to square em up, then glue em together and belt sand the finished top. That would make a real flat thick wood surface which would look pretty good too. I'd most likely screw and glue down the first board, then glue and clamp the second board and screw it down, then glue and clamp the third board and screw it down, etc til the table top was finished. That way the whole thing would glue up solid and seamless without the hassle of gluing and clamping the whole table surface in one pass. It can get tricky trying to clamp up a bunch of boards all in one pass, at least for a fella slightly unskilled such as myself.

I used plywood and metal tool stands to make several benches for wood/metal work in the basement. If I can ever get the basement cleaned up will post a picture. Made three 30" X 36" benches for bandsaw, miter saw and minilathe, and a 30" X 72" bench for main work table, big enough to assemble cabinets on and such. The big bench is about a half inch lower than my little table saw and the table saw sits at the end of the bench when I'm using it. So when I'm cutting pretty long stuff, I can clear the bench and it makes a 6 foot long outfeed support for the table saw.

Anyway, those Harbor Freight or Sears metal bolt-together tool stands cost about $30 and they are kinda weak and wobbly if you just bolt em together. But if you reinforce them with wood they get real strong and rigid. There is a set of bent sheet metal cross pieces you can screw onto the legs a few inches off the floor, then bent sheet metal pieces that make the top. I cut a piece of half inch plywood to fit in that bottom "shelf" of angle steel, then rip 2X4's or cut about 4" wide plywood pieces at a slight angle so they meet the shelf on the bottom and "tilt in" to fit the slight inward angle of the legs. Then drill holes in the bottom brackets and screw and glue the bottom wood pieces in. That makes a little "Pan" storage area underneath.

Then I used two identical sized 3/4" plywood pieces to build the bench top. Also screw / glue some "sticks" 1X2 or whatever to reinforce certain section of the cheap steel toolstand. I cut 9" or 12" wide pieces of plywood to separate the top and bottom plywood pieces of the top in an "H" shape, so there is rigid side-ways "honeycomb" of plywood separating the top and bottom 3/4" plywood bench pieces. That makes a box, ferinstance 30" X 36", 9" or 12" tall. There are open spaces on all four sides of the bench for storage shelves or you can build in drawers in the holes, and the top surface is supported by plywood close-spaced enough that flex is just out of the question. After its all put together, the top ain't gonna flex and the stand ain't gonna flex, and it is real strong considering its based on a cheezy chinese sheet metal tool stand. Sounds like a lot of trouble to go thru, but they go together pretty fast and don't cost all that much to make.

Harbor freight sells $15 roller platforms. You need to examine each one to make sure the wheels ain't broke, then well-lube the wheels before you put it in service. That roller stand can be adapted so one of the smaller tool stands can be affixed to the roller platform, so its easy to roll the bench out of the way when you don't need it. I've never had much luck with locking casters, so if I need to keep it from rolling I cut a few wood blocks just slightly taller than the wheels, lift the edge of the bench up a little and chock it up on the blocks.

The bigger work bench sits on two of those metal stands, and sits on two harbor freight cheap roller platforms. There is a wood bottom shelf connecting the two roller stands so I keep the little router table in the shelf between the two roller stands, and the air compressor in the "shelf pan" under one metal stand, and various other tools on the "shelf pan" under the other metal stand.

[Jonnin]

[quote name='mikegideon' timestamp='1354832036' post='856063']
You will need the double disk kit when you start reloading rifle. You'll like the classic turret press. I use mine for pretty much everything except critical stuff.
[/quote]

It is not required but it is nice. I only reload a small number of rifles, just a couple hundred rounds in a year across 5 or 6 calibers, and I have so far just double charged the cases without the double disk. So its doable without but annoying and could lead to mistakes if not focused. I need to get one of those.... I also made my own "disk", this is not hard at all to do if the given ones do not work for your load, took me about 1/2 an hour.

I doubled up 2 sheets of 3/4 plywood. It flexes a little on the largest rifle cases but it withstood nearly 100 reform brute force conversions (forced 30-06 brass into another die to make it into a different caliber, took an incredible amount of force on the press arm). So doubled up 3/4 is more than enough for any normal reloading task. I do not think 1 thickness of 3/4 would be enough for large rifle cases. It would be fine for most pistol and small/medium rifles. Maybe if you had enough lube and good cases that took minimal force, but a dent or bad case and it would flex too much.

[Dolomite_supafly]

These are all available at Midway Usa. They normally have coupons online so you can save money as well.

[url="http://www.midwayusa.com/product/540522/lee-perfect-powder-measure"]lee-perfect-powder-measure[/url]

[url="http://www.midwayusa.com/product/566058/lee-auto-prime-hand-priming-tool-shellholder-package-of-11"]lee-auto-prime-hand-priming-tool-shellholder-package-of-11[/url]

[url="http://www.midwayusa.com/product/713372/frankford-arsenal-micro-reloading-electronic-powder-scale-750-grain-capacity"]frankford-arsenal-micro-reloading-electronic-powder-scale-750-grain-capacity[/url]

[url="http://www.midwayusa.com/product/807875/lee-auto-prime-hand-priming-tool"]lee-auto-prime-hand-priming-tool[/url]

[url="http://www.midwayusa.com/product/118739/lyman-electronic-scale-powder-funnel-pan"]lyman-electronic-scale-powder-funnel-pan[/url]

[url="http://www.midwayusa.com/product/824144/lee-classic-cast-breech-lock-single-stage-press"]lee-classic-cast-breech-lock-single-stage-press[/url]

[url="http://www.midwayusa.com/product/858110/hornady-lock-n-load-press-and-die-conversion-bushing-kit"]hornady-lock-n-load-press-and-die-conversion-bushing-kit[/url]

[url="http://www.midwayusa.com/product/417494/hornady-electronic-caliper-6-stainless-steel"]hornady-electronic-caliper-6-stainless-steel[/url]

This is what it would minimally take to load. You would still need to buy the particular dies you need as well as bullets, primers and powder. I suggest the primers and powder be purchased locally. I would also suggest buying jacketed bullets in the begining, they are easier to deal with than cast. Cast bullets add another facet to reloading.

People are going to say the Lee stuff is crap but I have used all these items for a few years now without a single issue. For the money the Perfect Powder Measure can't be beat.

I prefer a electronic over a balance beam. Balance beams take a lot longer to settle than an electronic.

No need to tumble your brass to clean them. Get some Lemishine at Walmart. Add a table spoon to some water and soak your brass for 24 hours. Every time you walk by give them a shake to aggitate them. Rinse them and let dry. Brass will be very clean and useable.

As far as supplies to reload you can get what you need from David, DLM37015 on here. He has all the supplies you could want or need to reload.

The list above is under $200.

Here are a few things to do to save money at the cost of convienence

You could do away with the conversion bushings if you don't mind setting up your dies each time. I find it hard to make identical ammunition when I have to set the dies up each time.

You could also do away with the powder pan and just weigh the powder in the casing. You just need to make sure to zero out the scale for each casing because they all weigh differently.

You could also dip out the powder and not use the Perfect Powder Measure but that is a very slow going process.

The Press has a priming tool on it but that is also another slow going process. You are also tied to your press to prime cases. With the hand primers you can watch TV while priming cases.

Dolomite

[Jonnin]

The on the press primer is faster than the handheld tool for me? On the press, deprime, take it off the press, hand-prime, put it back on the press, continue.... by the time I did that, I could have made 3 rounds. Yes, I realize you would do the deprime and hand prime in bulk, but its still on/off/on and that eats a ton of time compared to on, make a live round, off. I don't watch tv and am not cooridnated enough to play on the computer while handling explosives, so maybe I am biased. Edited December 7, 2012 by Jonnin

[MississippiBoy]

Thanks for the information. I hope to work on the bench this weekend, and think i am going to do a 2'x4' top and drill through the frame to attach my press. That should control the flex and i think i am just going to do a double box frame with some stringers on the side. That will give me a shelf and table top both made with 3/4 hardwood. If needed i can always use the excuse to build some thing else. I will have to see how i am going to attach it to a wall to do away with any tilt.

Anymore info....

P.S. thanks Dolomite for the recommendation, but the kit I am looking at has most of those items plus the manual for under $200. Plus the turret press can be run as a single stage or as a turret. I plan on starting with the single stage setup.

[mikegideon]

[quote name='Jonnin' timestamp='1354905602' post='856555']
The on the press primer is faster than the handheld tool for me? On the press, deprime, take it off the press, hand-prime, put it back on the press, continue.... by the time I did that, I could have made 3 rounds. Yes, I realize you would do the deprime and hand prime in bulk, but its still on/off/on and that eats a ton of time compared to on, make a live round, off. I don't watch tv and am not cooridnated enough to play on the computer while handling explosives, so maybe I am biased.
[/quote]

I always tumble the lube off rifle cases after I size/decap. Besides, if you're doing single stage, it has to come off the press anyway. I always prime on the press with a safety prime when I'm using the turret press.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

[quote name='Jonnin' timestamp='1354905602' post='856555']
The on the press primer is faster than the handheld tool for me? On the press, deprime, take it off the press, hand-prime, put it back on the press, continue.... by the time I did that, I could have made 3 rounds. Yes, I realize you would do the deprime and hand prime in bulk, but its still on/off/on and that eats a ton of time compared to on, make a live round, off. I don't watch tv and am not cooridnated enough to play on the computer while handling explosives, so maybe I am biased.
[/quote]

Lately I tumble, then deprime with a lee hand press and universal decap die, then hit it on a uniforming bit, then prime with an RCBS hand primer. Then using a progressive press sans having to baby-sit priming on the progressive, the loading goes real fast because all I have to pay attention to is look inside each case after the powder measure station to make sure the powder level looks reasonable, then seat the bullet.

When I'm running the progressive press I don't even have the radio or music on, but the other processes are like "shucking peas" one operation at a time. Sometimes silence is golden for that as well, but I can "listen to the TV" and glance at it once in awhile if it sounds like something interesting is going on, but the TV only runs a couple hours a week any more, hardly anything worth watching. Sometimes listen to radio if there's something worth listening to, and often lately just have the kindle read to me text-to-speech, on old cheezy escapist science fiction stories from the 1930's thru 1960's. Stuff I probably read decades ago but its been so long I don't recall them very well any more. There is tons of that stuff free or nearly free. Apparently the copyright holders are either dead or don't care much anymore.

Each reload step goes in batches of about 300. Tumble 300 and put em in a large plastic peanut butter jar. Then de-prime the entire 300 like shucking peas. Then some other day hit each case for a few seconds on the uniformer machine, all 300 in a sitting. Then some other time prime all 300 at a sitting, then put the plastic jar full of primed cases up on the shelf until I get around to going out in the shop and loading them.

I started doing it because I was getting about 1 or 2 bad-primed cases out of every 100 doing it all in one swipe on the progressive press. It would make most sense just to trash the ruined rounds and forget about it, but I'm not very sensible and doing it a step at a time I hardly have any wastage at all, and the extra time spent is just "idle time" I'm too fried to do anything else, so the time isn't really that wasted.

I "get around" to shucking peas more than actual loading. Over the last year have collected a "surplus" of at least a couple of thousand primed 9mm cases in peanut butter jars and rubber-maid "tupperware", sitting on the shelf ready to reload some time or t'other. I've loaded more than I've shot, but the couple of thousand are just "extras" haven't loaded yet because I don't need em to shoot at the moment.

[LI0NSFAN]

[quote name='Jonnin' timestamp='1354826459' post='856005']
I really like the lee disk powder device for loading things like 9mm fast --- it likes small ball powders best. I really like having extra turrets, so my dies are set up and ready to go each time. I have close to 10 turrets now --- just get one every time you buy a set of dies!


lee sells used items, and those are often a bargain, so I check their site a lot.

Get a discover card. They have 1 time use software ---- you do not give your real credit card info, and if anyone steals the number, it will not work for them because it was only set up for one use. I am not sure what other cards are doing this at this time, surely some do by now? There are also similar services to do this, such as pay-pal (yuck, anti gun site) which you trust one site and the rest deal with the trusted site. A common form of theft is a keylogging virus (pretty much sends a text file of what you typed each day back to the hacker, and some are smart enough to "look" for credit cards and personal info), so you should be careful of your security on your PC.
[/quote]+1 on the discover card, that is how I do it online. I have never had an issue with Discover card.

[MississippiBoy]

Finally got the bench finished....

 

This is the final product -

 

 

The top is made of 2"x4" in a butcher block style.

 

Then has a sheet of plywood over the top.

 

The legs and box frame are 2x6s.

 

 

 

 

 

I think this bench will hold up to reloading... now I just need to get that Classic turret press. I am still trying to find it in stock somewhere.