Disarmed in a traffic stop

[daddyo]

The officer has every right to confiscate your firearm. It's called the law. You should familiarize yourself with it sometime.

 

People who aren't qualified to talk down to others shouldn't do so.

Edited December 12, 2012 by DaddyO

[daddyo]

TCA says otherwise.

 

 

Here is what it says:

 

(t) Any law enforcement officer of this state or of any county or municipality may, within the realm of the officer's lawful jurisdiction and when the officer is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties, disarm a permit holder at any time when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer or other individual or individuals. The officer shall return the handgun to the permit holder before discharging the permit holder from the scene when the officer has determined that the permit holder is not a threat to the officer, to the permit holder, or other individual or individuals provided that the permit holder has not violated any provision of this section and provided the permit holder has not committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the permit holder.

 

If the permit holder has given you no indication that he has committed a crime, or otherwise gives you no reason to believe that he is anything other than a law-abiding citizen, then the "reasonable belief" is simply not there. Nowhere does it say that you may disarm someone "just because".

 

If he is up to no good, what is to stop him from using his weapon after you return it to him? Doesn't make any sense.

 

Were I a judge, I would throw every single case out of court where the officer disarmed the citizen just because he had a weapon and for no other reason.

Edited December 12, 2012 by DaddyO

[Guest sventvkg]

I thought just like you before I was exposed to reality. Sue me? Dude I get threatened with civil suits everyday. Don't believe everything you see or hear on TV. I have nothing in my name and that's assuming you could get past my huge arsenal of attorney friends that owe me favors.

I will have you know most officers do not disarm every armed HCP they come across, I can only remember asking a few people. It's not the guns that I know are there that I fear, it's the ones I don't know about. I treat every vehicle and person like there may be a firearm there. I really don't care if they tell me anyway. The ones I have disarmed are ones that have commited a crime and not necessarily a traffic infraction. I have disarmed two guys matching the description of shoplifters leaving a Walmart.(wasn't them). I have disarmed a guy after a domestic and of course a few reckless endangermets involving a firearm.

Smart not to have anything in your name. 

 

Bottom line, if you are scared of the general populous than ya shouldn't be in Law Enforcement, right? I assume when you pull be over you've run my plates and can assume i'm not a criminal, right?

 

Bottom line, my liberty is a serious subject for me and I have a serious issue with my rights being violated and I have and will sue and I do win. I'm not alone. Your best defense is  not to violate people's rights but yet I see it everyday. Remember...You took an oath to the Constitution. You're best bet is to actually read it and understand it then act accordingly. You'll never have a problem :) Take care.

[DaveTN]

Then why do any of you carry a gun? The chances are you will never need it. Most citizens are law abiding and not going to bother you.

I can’t believe this “HCP holders live at the foot of the cross BS.”

The state of Tennessee does not recognize your right to carry a gun in your car; it is a crime in this state. I doubt the courts will ever rule against a cop disarming someone on a traffic stop. Sue??? For disarming someone on traffic stop….. Let us know how that works for you.

I support our Police Officers and they job and they do. If they feel the need to disarm someone on a traffic stop our legislature has given them the green light to do that. I thank our legislature for that and hope that our courts would never turn their backs on our Police Officers safety.

[Patton]

I assume when you pull be over you've run my plates and can assume i'm not a criminal, right?
.

I have called in a plate only to let dispatch know which vehicle I have stopped so if the stop goes bad we actually have a chance of finding the vehicle and then we can find out who may have been in it. There is no need to assume whoever the plate comes back to is actually in the vehicle. Most of the time Bad guys don't legitimately own vehicles anyway.
You are really worrying over nothing, the majority of LEO's are not disarming on simple traffic stops. I will say after someone goes through the trouble of disarming for me I'm probably going to be kind enough not to issue a ticket.(and I jave not till this day)

[daddyo]

Then why do any of you carry a gun? The chances are you will never need it. Most citizens are law abiding and not going to bother you.

I can’t believe this “HCP holders live at the foot of the cross BS.”

The state of Tennessee does not recognize your right to carry a gun in your car; it is a crime in this state. I doubt the courts will ever rule against a cop disarming someone on a traffic stop. Sue??? For disarming someone on traffic stop….. Let us know how that works for you.

I support our Police Officers and they job and they do. If they feel the need to disarm someone on a traffic stop our legislature has given them the green light to do that. I thank our legislature for that and hope that our courts would never turn their backs on our Police Officers safety.

Quote your statistics to some of the victims of crime. They had the same odds as the rest of us, didn't they?

Allow me to refer you to the phrase in section 39-17-1351 (t) of the TCA "reasonably believes it is necessary", with the key word being "reasonably".

[RobertNashville]

Smart not to have anything in your name. 

 

Bottom line, if you are scared of the general populous than ya shouldn't be in Law Enforcement, right? I assume when you pull be over you've run my plates and can assume i'm not a criminal, right?

 

Bottom line, my liberty is a serious subject for me and I have a serious issue with my rights being violated and I have and will sue and I do win. I'm not alone. Your best defense is  not to violate people's rights but yet I see it everyday. Remember...You took an oath to the Constitution. You're best bet is to actually read it and understand it then act accordingly. You'll never have a problem :) Take care.

You have no "right" to be armed while in a police officer's presence when he suspects that you may have committed a crime, even one a "tiny" as simple speeding...while officers don't have to disarm you and while I appreciate that not all do, I completely understand why some would.

 

They don't know you...they don't know what you are capable of....and just because you haven't been caught doing something seriously illegal in the past (which is all that having an HCP/running your plates can tell them) it is NOT unreasonable for them to decided to disarm you while they investigate/make a determination about whatever it was that caused them to stop you in the first place.

 

Do some officers abuse their power? Absolutely...when/if one does then by all means, deal with it with their superiors and/or in the courtroom but that doesn't mean the rest aren't acting responsibly, reasonably and within the law when they disarm you at a traffic stop.
 

I'm sure your liberty IS a serious subject for you...I suspect that going home alive at the end of a shift is a pretty serious subject for officers too.

Edited December 12, 2012 by RobertNashville

[RobertNashville]

Quote your statistics to some of the victims of crime. They had the same odds as the rest of us, didn't they?

Allow me to refer you to the phrase in section 39-17-1351 (t) of the TCA "reasonably believes it is necessary", with the key word being "reasonably".

I guess you have powers we never realized...you can now look into the mind of an officer and know whether his belief is reasonable or not. ;)

[Dustbuster]

Something that has't been mentioned is that the primary calls contributing to the most officer sustained injuries by firearm are traffic stops and domestics. Guys that work patrol have to be on their toes,complacency can lead to loss of life.This post doesn't mention why the car was stopped.On a side note for educational reading read the account of Mark Chestnut MNPD who was shot multiple times during a traffic stop. Chestnut was experienced,good natured,and knew his task well.Hes the kind of guy you wanted to be your neighbor.One would maybe understand the need for caution,especially working interdiction.Id like to know the rest of the story w the squirrel catcher traffic stop....why did he pull the vehicle over? 

[daddyo]

I guess you have powers we never realized...you can now look into the mind of an officer and know whether his belief is reasonable or not. ;)

I'm taking a risk saying this, but just stop commenting. You're making an ass of yourself.

[RobertNashville]

I'm taking a risk saying this, but just stop commenting. You're making an ass of yourself.

 

So saying...

 

"Were I a judge, I would throw every single case out of court where the officer disarmed the citizen just because he had a weapon and for no other reason."

as you did above is a rational, well-thought out statement?

Edited December 12, 2012 by RobertNashville

[daddyo]

So saying...

"Were I a judge, I would throw every single case out of court where the officer disarmed the citizen just because he had a weapon and for no other reason."

as you did above is a rational, well-thought out statement?

Not to you, obviously and not surprisingly.

[Dolomite_supafly]

If you are going to argue amongst yourselves take it to PM's or I will lock the thread to save some hurt feelings.

Dolomite

[tennessee01tacoma]

Something that has't been mentioned is that the primary calls contributing to the most officer sustained injuries by firearm are traffic stops and domestics. Guys that work patrol have to be on their toes,complacency can lead to loss of life.This post doesn't mention why the car was stopped.On a side note for educational reading read the account of Mark Chestnut MNPD who was shot multiple times during a traffic stop. Chestnut was experienced,good natured,and knew his task well.Hes the kind of guy you wanted to be your neighbor.One would maybe understand the need for caution,especially working interdiction.Id like to know the rest of the story w the squirrel catcher traffic stop....why did he pull the vehicle over?

He pulled us over for speeding, my friend was driving, I was in the front passenger seat, our wives and his little boy in the back seat. We were all buckled up, the car doesn't have any tint on the windows. It WAS late like around midnight we were lookin at the Christmas lights,gatlinburg is about 2 hours from home we had just came from shadrack Christmas lights at Smokey stadium. no alcohol in any of us, none of us even smoke. I think that's all the info anyone would need.

[RobertNashville]

He pulled us over for speeding, my friend was driving, I was in the front passenger seat, our wives and his little boy in the back seat. We were all buckled up, the car doesn't have any tint on the windows. It WAS late like around midnight we were lookin at the Christmas lights,gatlinburg is about 2 hours from home we had just came from shadrack Christmas lights at Smokey stadium. no alcohol in any of us, none of us even smoke. I think that's all the info anyone would need.

I guess an officer walking up on a vehicle with several people in it...people he doesn't know at all, at midnight and at least one of the people is armed is HARDLY sufficient reason for the officer to ask the person to disarm while he's there on the side of the road and finishing the traffic stop. ;)

[gregintenn]

I can’t believe this “HCP holders live at the foot of the cross BS.”

 

...yet you seem to have no problem attributing this to anyone with a badge pinned to their chest? It defies logic to me.

[Dustbuster]

hmm, i dont know why a park ranger would work traffic at midnight unless there was a bolo or advisement that included a vehicle that looked like yours.....lots to speculate about but considering 2 guys w 2 women and a child in what im assuming is an average vehicle wouldn't lead me to a lemee see your gun episode.Me thinks ranger rick should stick to fire prevention unless there was something else that was going on that no one knew about, except for him, and his comm center....ya never know,but the disarming in front of everyone was questionable but then i wouldn't expect anything but that when it comes to gungy rambo minded squirrel chasers.....especially in  the gatlinburg area.... urban legend has it that a kid that jumped the gate at pigeon forge splash world 3 years ago is still locked up.....<eg>.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Dustbuster

[tennessee01tacoma]

Car is a Subaru legacy sedan completely stock windows aren't even tinted.
There's mixed feelings on the officers actions but how bout my actions, this was the first time I've had this happen, any thoughts?

[Dustbuster]

check this out,theres 2 parts,made my kids watch it,then i tested them on it,one of the best things ive ever seen on the tube...but you have to watch the whole thing...best way to handle being pulled over.

 

i think you're actions were fine and proper,you complied and left unscathed.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJrQBwJpqk

Edited December 12, 2012 by Dustbuster

[DaveTN]

...yet you seem to have no problem attributing this to anyone with a badge pinned to their chest? It defies logic to me.

Now you know better than that Greg. I have always acknowledged there are bad cops out there and have even went into great detail many times on how to handle a citizens complaint.

 

If you are accusing me of giving the cop the benefit of the doubt; absolutely I make no bones about that either. I support our cops and they have my respect unless they do something to not deserve it.

 

If a cop needs to explain to a Judge, or jury why they disarmed someone; I'm sure they will have no problem doing that.

 

Try to find a legislator that is going to tell a cop he can't disarm someone that he thinks is a threat. The only ones that are going to do that are the ones that want to see HCP abolished.

[DaveTN]

check this out,theres 2 parts,made my kids watch it,then i tested them on it,one of the best things ive ever seen on the tube...but you have to watch the whole thing...best way to handle being pulled over.

 

i think you're actions were fine and proper,you complied and left unscathed.

Is that the video where the kids drive off with their bag of weed high fiving each other?

 

If it is you should apologize for making your kids watch that. If a good cop was making that stop your kids would be in jail and your car would be impounded. You are doing an injustice to your kids to not properly teach them the law.

 

They expect you to know what you are talking about and not give them bad info that could impact them the rest of their life. That video is a terrible example of how to handle a traffic stop.

[RobertNashville]

I have to admit that I’m a bit befuddled with some of the posts that seem to either indicate suspicion of if not hostility toward officers. I’ve seen it in a lot of threads on this forum and I really don’t understand where these apparent feelings are coming from.  Is it just that I’m from a generation that believed most LEOs were good people who wanted to serve? And, is that belief no longer justified?

 

I don’t get it…I really don’t.

 

I understand that no one wants to have an “official” encounter with a LEO but about 99.9% of the time; if we have one it’s because we really HAVE done something wrong and about 99.9% of the time the officer will treat you with the same courtesy and respect he/she gets from YOU.  The officer isn’t out to trample on your “rights” (real or imagined or misunderstood) and he isn’t out to just cause you trouble – he’s there to do a job and I’m very glad he is.

 

I know there are bad officers out there but if you really want to complain why not do so about the ones who really deserve it?  I can’t see that the officer in this encounter did ANYTHING wrong; shouldn’t we be glad for that?  :shrug:

Edited December 12, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Dustbuster]

My kids watched this after they turned 16 and learned,and know, to properly respect officers questions and how to answer.It wasn't about the weed part.Theres 2 parts to this video,the latter is what they watched,about being pulled over. I have more of a problem with kids idolizing honey boo boo and nutcase family more than watching an aclu video...... see how barney fife has a bad attitude and the kid doesnt give him any grief. THATS whats important. I agree the weed thing isnt the best but the ability to communicate properly and hold ground smoothly is. I want my kids to know what their true rights are,but to be respectful about it.Wanna see bad impact? go to compton california and see what happens between cops and citizens that doesnt make the news. there is a difference between enforcement and en farce men.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Dustbuster

[TMF]

Car is a Subaru legacy sedan completely stock windows aren't even tinted.
There's mixed feelings on the officers actions but how bout my actions, this was the first time I've had this happen, any thoughts?

Multiple males in a vehicle late at night could be a pretty good reason to feel it necessary to disarm; I get that. But as a SOP for every stop is clearly not the intention of the law. I'm not arguing with a cop over it, but I would still be concerned about someone unfamiliar with my weapon taking it and unloading it. Not every LEO is a weapons expert.

[daddyo]

I don’t get it…I really don’t.

I'll tell you what I tell my anti gun sister when she says the same thing about me carrying..... It's not a requirement. Edited December 12, 2012 by DaddyO