Disarmed in a traffic stop

[CQB Elite]

Your personal fears are no justification for disarming someone who has shown no aggression towards you nor given you any reason to view him as a threat. The less a weapon is handled, the less chance of accident. Besides, my weapon is my personal property. If I am not committing a crime, you have no right ro confiscate it, not even for a few minutes.

It ain't fear, it's called caution.....

[gregintenn]

It ain't fear, it's called caution.....

Some would call it intimidation.

[101]

Call me crazy but if you were not driving and you were just simply in the vehicle, why did you volunteer information that was not pertinent for the stop? If the officer was not stopping you directly, you were not under any pressure to volunteer information or even show him id.

I could be wrong but next time if you're not the one being "detained" then don't answer his questions.

[TMF]

Call me crazy but if you were not driving and you were just simply in the vehicle, why did you volunteer information that was not pertinent for the stop? If the officer was not stopping you directly, you were not under any pressure to volunteer information or even show him id.
I could be wrong but next time if you're not the one being "detained" then don't answer his questions.

That is not the preferred technique.

[Daniel]

I didnt see any weed in that video must have missed it.

[tennessee01tacoma]

That is not the preferred technique.

Like I said in an earlier post he asked if there were weapons in the vehicle I was honest. If he hadn't asked I don't know that I would have volunteered.

[TMF]

Like I said in an earlier post he asked if there were weapons in the vehicle I was honest. If he hadn't asked I don't know that I would have volunteered.

Sure. I wouldn't lie or not cooperate with an officer. It isn't about rights, more about respect and politeness. I guess I also don't have anything to hide, so I am not worried about incriminating myself.

That video posted is good advice to someone who has illegal items or wants a ticket. In some states you can be taken to jail for going 20 mph over. That officer could have simply arrested him and impounded the car. Having been in that situation before I was very polite and cooperative which resulted in the officer knocking 10 mph off my ticket, thus greatly reducing the cost. This was when I was a teenager and had every reason to get hammered for speeding. I've walked away from many pull overs with no ticket or searches just because I was cooperative and respectful. I'll teach my kids to do the same.

[MiddTennTaco]

You folks have no idea what youre talking about. Unless youve served as a police officer, you have absolutely no clue. Its nothing like tv or the movies.

Come back when youve got law enforcement experience or actually studied law anywhere besides google. You may not like it, but it is what it is. Get over it.

I have never... seen so many mal-interpretations of the law in my entire life. You can have all the opinions you want. Looks like career day in kindergarten to me.

[NRA]

You folks have no idea what youre talking about. Unless youve served as a police officer, you have absolutely no clue. Its nothing like tv or the movies.

Come back when youve got law enforcement experience or actually studied law anywhere besides google. You may not like it, but it is what it is. Get over it.

I have never... seen so many mal-interpretations of the law in my entire life. You can have all the opinions you want. Looks like career day in kindergarten to me.

I know, Unless you put body armor on to go to work everyday and risk your life some people will never or will never choose to understand.  This thread will be a no win and it should be shut down already.

Edited December 12, 2012 by NRA

[daddyo]

You folks have no idea what youre talking about. Unless youve served as a police officer, you have absolutely no clue. Its nothing like tv or the movies.

Come back when youve got law enforcement experience or actually studied law anywhere besides google. You may not like it, but it is what it is. Get over it.

I have never... seen so many mal-interpretations of the law in my entire life. You can have all the opinions you want. Looks like career day in kindergarten to me.

Just because we don't agree with you? OK...

[Guest sventvkg]

I have to admit that I’m a bit befuddled with some of the posts that seem to either indicate suspicion of if not hostility toward officers. I’ve seen it in a lot of threads on this forum and I really don’t understand where these apparent feelings are coming from.  Is it just that I’m from a generation that believed most LEOs were good people who wanted to serve? And, is that belief no longer justified?

 

I don’t get it…I really don’t.

 

I understand that no one wants to have an “official” encounter with a LEO but about 99.9% of the time; if we have one it’s because we really HAVE done something wrong and about 99.9% of the time the officer will treat you with the same courtesy and respect he/she gets from YOU.  The officer isn’t out to trample on your “rights” (real or imagined or misunderstood) and he isn’t out to just cause you trouble – he’s there to do a job and I’m very glad he is.

 

I know there are bad officers out there but if you really want to complain why not do so about the ones who really deserve it?  I can’t see that the officer in this encounter did ANYTHING wrong; shouldn’t we be glad for that?  :shrug:

How old are you man? Just go to google or copwatch and watch, read about and listen to all the abuses that are happening today via LEO's. It's their training. Federally mandated fear mongering. Police officers ARE NOT THE SAME good people they were when my grandfather was Police captain in Westfield NJ and cousins, uncles and friends were all either police or Firemen. No sir...Police these days are to be avoided....I know there are some good ones out there but in general LEO's are to be avoided. If you don't understand this you must live under a rock....MOST ARE CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATING OATH BREAKERS.

[Guest sventvkg]

You folks have no idea what youre talking about. Unless youve served as a police officer, you have absolutely no clue. Its nothing like tv or the movies.

Come back when youve got law enforcement experience or actually studied law anywhere besides google. You may not like it, but it is what it is. Get over it.

I have never... seen so many mal-interpretations of the law in my entire life. You can have all the opinions you want. Looks like career day in kindergarten to me.

I don't take kindly to bonded citizens walking around like they are some type of Demigod with power over me. You're a bonded citizen..Nothing more. The public are your bosses, not the other way around. Don't violate your Constitutional oath or people's civil rights and no one will have a problem with you. I know the job isn't easy. If you can't do it Constitutionally or morally get into another line of work. 

 

I think many of us on these forums have seen our share of combat, have extensive educations, understand laws and the roll of law enforcement just fine. I don't need criminal justice major pontificating like we're a bunch of idiots. Get over yourself. Think twice in these trying times of a deeply ideologically divided nation about doing anything that goes against law abiding citizens in your area. You may someday need them as your ally and truthfully these days LEO's are not thought of too kindly by anyone. 

[JayC]

Minor speeding is NOT a criminal act, it's an administrative violation.  Big difference.  

 

Second, any officer who believes all HCP should be disarmed during routine traffic stops are clearly violating 39-17-1351t. 

 

It also does not explain why some officers with no probable cause or even RAS are running the serial numbers on all the firearms they come into contact with, and by doing so creating a backdoor computerized database of firearm owners.

 

I'm much more concerned about the second practice, than officers occasionally abusing the disarm law...  but because it's the disarm law allowing them to run the serial numbers, either that law needs to be strengthen, or removed from the books altogether.

 

Although I'd be happy with a simple addition to 39-17-1351t requiring officers to document every disarm and the reasonable belief that lead them to the disarm under penalty of perjury.  No reasonable officer should have a problem with documenting their belief officially each time they take the step to disarm a otherwise law abiding citizen who is not under arrest.  As long as there is a criminal penalty (at least a class E felony) for failing to document the disarm or violating 39-17-1351t.  And yes I think a class E felony is the correct charge in a case like this since it would be an abuse of power under the color of law.

 

Again, the bigger issue in cases like this are the running of the serial number which creates a backdoor gun registry. 

You have no "right" to be armed while in a police officer's presence when he suspects that you may have committed a crime, even one a "tiny" as simple speeding...while officers don't have to disarm you and while I appreciate that not all do, I completely understand why some would.

 

They don't know you...they don't know what you are capable of....and just because you haven't been caught doing something seriously illegal in the past (which is all that having an HCP/running your plates can tell them) it is NOT unreasonable for them to decided to disarm you while they investigate/make a determination about whatever it was that caused them to stop you in the first place.

 

Do some officers abuse their power? Absolutely...when/if one does then by all means, deal with it with their superiors and/or in the courtroom but that doesn't mean the rest aren't acting responsibly, reasonably and within the law when they disarm you at a traffic stop.
 

I'm sure your liberty IS a serious subject for you...I suspect that going home alive at the end of a shift is a pretty serious subject for officers too.

 

 

[NRA]

:surrender:

[Guest sventvkg]

I have called in a plate only to let dispatch know which vehicle I have stopped so if the stop goes bad we actually have a chance of finding the vehicle and then we can find out who may have been in it. There is no need to assume whoever the plate comes back to is actually in the vehicle. Most of the time Bad guys don't legitimately own vehicles anyway.
You are really worrying over nothing, the majority of LEO's are not disarming on simple traffic stops. I will say after someone goes through the trouble of disarming for me I'm probably going to be kind enough not to issue a ticket.(and I jave not till this day)

I am the nicest guy to police because I see how jumpy some of you are. :) If you weren't out revenue generating for the town, state, county etc, than your job would be a lot safer IMHO. If i'm doing something unsafe than I deserve the stop and ticket. Nailing me for going 5mph over some arbitrary speedlimit set for the purpose of collecting speeding ticket money isn't something i agree with and it's certainly not worth the risks you guys take making the stops. 

 

I guess i'm just saying it's the entire system that's to blame. But generally I have a BIG problem with most law enforcement because you are trained that Constitution loving, liberty minded American's are a Terrorist threat. I have a BIG PROBLEM with that brother.

[RobertNashville]

Minor speeding is NOT a criminal act, it's an administrative violation. Big difference.

Second, any officer who believes all HCP should be disarmed during routine traffic stops are clearly violating 39-17-1351t.

It also does not explain why some officers with no probable cause or even RAS are running the serial numbers on all the firearms they come into contact with, and by doing so creating a backdoor computerized database of firearm owners.

I'm much more concerned about the second practice, than officers occasionally abusing the disarm law... but because it's the disarm law allowing them to run the serial numbers, either that law needs to be strengthen, or removed from the books altogether.

Although I'd be happy with a simple addition to 39-17-1351t requiring officers to document every disarm and the reasonable belief that lead them to the disarm under penalty of perjury. No reasonable officer should have a problem with documenting their belief officially each time they take the step to disarm a otherwise law abiding citizen who is not under arrest. As long as there is a criminal penalty (at least a class E felony) for failing to document the disarm or violating 39-17-1351t. And yes I think a class E felony is the correct charge in a case like this since it would be an abuse of power under the color of law.

Again, the bigger issue in cases like this are the running of the serial number which creates a backdoor gun registry.

Well, posting in an internet gun forum can be tracked too...don't know about the "database"...do you have any actual evidence that such a database is being constructed?

If any of my guns are ever stolen I'd be pretty damn happy if a cop found it during a traffic stop because he ran the SN.

I'm no expert on Tennessee law but I believe you are wrong about speeding not being a criminal act...just because it's usually "minor" doesn't mean is a civil matter rather than a criminal one. AFAIK the State of Tennessee doesn't sue speeders in civil court and you most certainly CAN be taken to jail in handcuffs for speeding; they don't usually do that for civil matters either. However, maybe one of our fine attorneys on TGO can chime in. Edited December 12, 2012 by RobertNashville

[billyscott]

I just have one simple question. What was the reason for the officer unloading the pistol before he returned it to the owner? 

[RobertNashville]

How old are you man? Just go to google or copwatch and watch, read about and listen to all the abuses that are happening today via LEO's. It's their training. Federally mandated fear mongering. Police officers ARE NOT THE SAME good people they were when my grandfather was Police captain in Westfield NJ and cousins, uncles and friends were all either police or Firemen. No sir...Police these days are to be avoided....I know there are some good ones out there but in general LEO's are to be avoided. If you don't understand this you must live under a rock....MOST ARE CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATING OATH BREAKERS.

I'm a little younger than dirt and a little older than my teeth.

I can get caught up in stories like anyone else but I try not to slander whole groups of people based on Google searches - are you speaking from personal experience or from credible sources that all these cops are out of control and violating rights? How many real violations happen compared to the likely hundreds of thousands of traffic stops that happen in this country every week?

[CQB Elite]

How old are you man? Just go to google or copwatch and watch, read about and listen to all the abuses that are happening today via LEO's. It's their training. Federally mandated fear mongering. Police officers ARE NOT THE SAME good people they were when my grandfather was Police captain in Westfield NJ and cousins, uncles and friends were all either police or Firemen. No sir...Police these days are to be avoided....I know there are some good ones out there but in general LEO's are to be avoided. If you don't understand this you must live under a rock....MOST ARE CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATING OATH BREAKERS.

Well, I hope you never become a victim of a crime because you'll look silly calling the police to come help......

[DaveS]

Yeah, I'm curious if he's also sworn as a deputy in TN, if not it would appear he may have violated the law by disarming you, since 39-17-1351t only covers state, county and local police officers.

Not that it really matters, just pointing the apparent issue with the disarming...

I'm not sure I would personally classify this as a positive encounter, but then again I've never been pulled over and disarmed.

He doesn't have to be! If he's a Park Ranger on a National Park, he's already a sworn officer. You have to play on his end of the court for awhile! Good luck trying to burn any LEO for carrying out their duities!

 

Dave S

[G27ATT]

[quote name='EB-SF' timestamp='1355356094' post='859068']How old are you man? Just go to google or copwatch and watch, read about and listen to all the abuses that are happening today via LEO's. It's their training. Federally mandated fear mongering. Police officers ARE NOT THE SAME good people they were when my grandfather was Police captain in Westfield NJ and cousins, uncles and friends were all either police or Firemen. No sir...Police these days are to be avoided....I know there are some good ones out there but in general LEO's are to be avoided. If you don't understand this you must live under a rock....MOST ARE CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATING OATH BREAKERS. Well, I hope you never become a victim of a crime because you'll look silly calling the police to come help......[/quote] Help? More likely to write a report and move on. Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[Guest sventvkg]

Well, I hope you never become a victim of a crime because you'll look silly calling the police to come help......

Oh, I'll file a police report if a crime occurs. That's perfectly within the boundaries of their job. When they are doing their job and serving ME I have no problem with them. I have a problem with them violating law abiding citizens rights. There's the distinction.

Edited December 13, 2012 by sventvkg

[Guest sventvkg]

I'm a little younger than dirt and a little older than my teeth.

I can get caught up in stories like anyone else but I try not to slander whole groups of people based on Google searches - are you speaking from personal experience or from credible sources that all these cops are out of control and violating rights? How many real violations happen compared to the likely hundreds of thousands of traffic stops that happen in this country every week?

I don't know the actual statistics on it and I don't care but I can tell you abuse of authority is becoming more and more rampant. Start here and move to Google and Youtube to continue your research. What you will see and read about will open your eyes good sir. 

[RobertNashville]

I think some folks here are overreacting just a bit Cops do more than just take reports and they are not all corrupt. And, not all cops think that law-abiding constitution loving Americans are Terrorists. Edited December 13, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Fivestring63]

Dang I don't have an unsubscribe button on my smart phone.