Yeager responds to Coward claims

[Will H]

I saw the title of this thread and wondered what jackhole called Chuck Yeager a coward. I was about to get a case of the ass.

[BimmerFreak]

A few thoughts....

 

The "free ride to Camden" video is typical Yeager. At least he is consistent.

I do agree with his opinion that it is way too easy to sit behind your computer and talk smack about someone.

If you don't have the balls to put your REAL name in a thread, or say the same thing to the guy in person, you should STFU.

The "issue" I would take from it is his description of "a little thing in Iraq..." 

I don't know man, I would say that to the families of the KIA, it's still a pretty big fucking deal!

 

Regarding that fateful day; I haven't, nor will I ever try to MMQB his actions. I wasn't there.

Like many have said, stuff goes sideways and things get wonky pretty fast in combat.

Who knows if the outcome had been different if he hadn't brain-farted the transmission, or if he hadn't "gotten off the X"

What I DO know is his AAR comments immediately following the ambush (you know, the one where everyone fucked up, and he was the only one that did the right thing" are arrogant and tasteless at best.  (My opinion, and one that I am more than happy to share with him in person)

I also feel that the way he has shown little compassion for the KIA is classless.  (Again, my opinion that I am willing to share in person)

 

Do I think Yeager dropped the ball that day?  Who cares, it doesnt matter.

What does matter is that men he called Brothers In Arms are dead.

Is it possible that those KIA are dead by their own (in)actions? Sure, quite possible.

Do you blast them in the AAR and then open source to anyone that will listen?  Nah, sometimes you honor your dead with silence and respect.

*Make sure that TTPs are reviewed and lessons learned. But honor those men, and don't use them as a way to self promote.

 

Other thoughts on Yeager-

- James, while abrasive and too "in your face" for my liking, does make valid points from time to time.

Is he always right? no.  Is he always wrong? nope.  Like you should do with any person or trainer you come in contact with; take what you need from him, and dump the rest.

 

- James is one hell of a fundraiser for many pro-gun, pro 2A, and pro youth shooting sports programs.

His support of the Friends of NRA is amazing.  I personally appreciate his hard work and financial support of these programs.

 

- Finally, at least one person mentioned the word SOLDIER when referring to James in their post.

For the record, James is not, nor has he ever been a Soldier, or any other form of US Servicemember.  He is not a "Veteran" of the Armed Forces.

 

*Edited to fix some spelling oversights.

Edited December 11, 2012 by BimmerFreak

[mikegideon]

i randomly came across one of his videos last night (on youtube) while I was looking for .40 cal ballistic test

 

wow...he HATES that caliber huh? and thinks anyone who carries it is a flipping retard...not cool IMO

 

just from that video ALONE, i was not impressed with him nor am I a fan.

 

In essence, by saying anyone who carries a .40 is a tard (or whatever term he used) he is putting THOUSANDS of LEO and FBI (and more) in that category?!? that's just a bit harsh imo

It's his style. Like me, or hate me, but spell my name right. I don't have a problem with the guy. I kinda get a kick out of the way he can stir up such a buzz.

[RobertNashville]

i randomly came across one of his videos last night (on youtube) while I was looking for .40 cal ballistic test

 

wow...he HATES that caliber huh? and thinks anyone who carries it is a flipping retard...not cool IMO

 

just from that video ALONE, i was not impressed with him nor am I a fan.

 

In essence, by saying anyone who carries a .40 is a tard (or whatever term he used) he is putting THOUSANDS of LEO and FBI (and more) in that category?!? that's just a bit harsh imo

Well, anyone who carries a .40 is a retard.

 

JUST KIDDING

 

He also doesn't like 1911s for carry purposes either and I disagreed with him vehemently until I took a two-day fighting pistol course at Tactical Response and my very pretty, and VERY expensive 1911 that was supposedly designed specifically for reliable carry, choked so badly that I had to switch to another gun before lunch on the first day.

 

He IS opinionated...he IS abrasive...he certainly CAN come across as a bit of a self-appointed, tin-plated dictator with delusions of god-hood BUT, he's also a good guy IMHO which is why his school is one of the schools I spend money at to train.

Edited December 11, 2012 by RobertNashville

[mav]

 

He also doesn't like 1911s for carry purposes either and I disagreed with him vehemently until I took a two-day fighting pistol course at Tactical Response and my very pretty, and VERY expensive 1911 that was supposedly designed specifically for reliable carry, choked so badly that I had to switch to another gun before lunch on the first day.

 

 

I would still disagree with him.  I have taken several SI courses using my Nighthawk Custom Talon 2011, and had absolutely zero problems.  I also took one using a Glock 34.

 

I don't know this guy from Adam, but what little I have seen from him on his Youtube videos, I can safely say he is an a$$hole and too full of himself.  I have thought about training at TR, but now that I know who runs it, there is no way.  I would not want to train with a person like that.  I don't care how good he is or what his credentials are.  A little humility would do this guy wonders.

[RobertNashville]

Really easy to judge someone you don't know and have never met isn't it. ;)

[strickj]

Really easy to judge someone you don't know and have never met isn't it. ;)

Not when he's an open book.

He has another recent vid where he boasts in his douchy rep.

 

;)

[Chucktshoes]

Really easy to judge someone you don't know and have never met isn't it. ;)

He could be a nice, soft spoken, really awesome and humble guy in person. That matters not one whit when he specifically cultivates a particular image in public. For better or worse Yeager markets himself as the aggro-douche one sees in his videos. That will appeal to some and turn others off. Can't fault anyone for their opinions of Yeager's online persona.

[Lumber_Jack]

Walks like a duck, talks like a duck....

[Dolomite_supafly]

Really easy to judge someone you don't know and have never met isn't it. ;)

There are people who have been on here that I didn't have to meet or get to know in order to determine they were a POS (not directed at you Robert). And in Yeager's case it doesn't take a lot when he throws it out for everyone to see.

 

And as I have said before the problem I have isn't so much his actions during the ambush but what he did afterwards as well as how he acted prior to it. And what I was told about him lines up perfectly to how he acts in all of his videos. So I have no choice but to believe those souces I trusted.

 

Hard to know how any of us are going to act or predict an outcome to something like that. Getting injured or coming out unscathed in a situation like that is pure luck. Those that died were hit in the initial volley of fire so no matter what James did the outcome was likely going to be the same even if he did everything 100% right. But another problem I have is taking the bad and adding insult to injury by blaming the dead. To me that is disrespectful to the dead as well as the families they left behind.

 

Doing good in a community still doesn't change what he is. There have been a lot of really bad people who did good in their community.

 

Dolomite

[Stegall Law Firm]

I guess this video here just gets thrown right out the window: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEGtkHRyFWE.  So the lesson is always seek to de-escalate potentially violent situations and deter crime, unless your manhood is being challenged on the internet, because then you need to become macho dude and fight anybody who calls you a coward.  Check.  Way to send a message of consistency and credibility.  I'll remember that next time I'm deciding which instructor I want to spend my money on. 

 

[RobertNashville]

I would still disagree with him.  I have taken several SI courses using my Nighthawk Custom Talon 2011, and had absolutely zero problems...

You would have to disagree with a LOT more trainers than Yeager.  :shrug:

 

You won't find anyone who loves 1911s more than I and I too have a Nighthawk Custom Talon but I've taken quite a few courses now and in every one, it's the 1911s that have significant problems as the day wears on.  I'm not saying that 1911s can't run reliability or that none do but I've seen more fail that not and not because they were cheep or because they weren't taken care of.

[Will H]

There are exceptions to every rule.  That said I am sure there are a couple of 1911's out there that would run reliably all day. 

[Dolomite_supafly]

I have over 3,500 rounds through my "cheap" 1911 and have never had a single reliability issue. I will say that I did go through it and added about $200 worth of parts for reliability and accuracy.

 

Dolomite

Edited December 12, 2012 by Dolomite_supafly

[TGO David]

You know who thinks it's awesome that this thread has made it to four pages?

 

^^ This guy

 

 

:lol:  Free publicity at the expense of the detractors.

[tennessee01tacoma]

I agree with Yeager on 1911s I like to look at them, heck there are several I would like to own, but with modern ammo 9mm closes the gap ballistically plus I can hold 15 rounds or 17 with an extended mag not 8 or 9 with extended mag. I think Yeager says 1911s are inherently inaccurate, I disagree, cheap 1911s are more commonly inaccurate but I think with decent sights not the old gi sights they are usually accurate. But as a carry pistol it's not gonna be my first choice. I don't care a lot for Glocks, but they are an awesome (modern) design. We don't drive 100 year old designed cars or use 100 year old designed appliances, so my train of thought why defend yourself with 100 year old design handgun. If it works for you then train and adapt to it, I'm probably not gonna change your opinion anyways. But on that note 9mm is almost half the price of 45 so to me that means more training.

[TMF]

I guess if I carried 400 rounds of ammo for my self defense pistol, a 1911 would not be my first choice. However, somehow I've managed to get through at least 300 rounds in a day of shooting without malfunction, so I'm pretty confident that my 1911 can survive through the two mags I carry if it ever came down to it. The argument that 1911s are not reliable for carry is just stupid. 99% of shooters will never be good enough to shoot to the accuracy capabilities of their pistol, and no one can carry the amount of ammo necessary to foul up a 1911 to the point of malfunction.

[Will H]

It has always confounded me why people talk about how they want a .45 for stopping power over the puny 9mm.  If you are concerned with stopping power why not carry a .357 with federal 125 grain JHP?  You don't get a better rep than that.  There is a reason it was dubbed the "magic bullet."

 

Now, liking the 1911 as a range run?  Oh yeah, I can totally dig that.  In fact I want one too.  I want one of those on the cheaper side like Dolomite was talking about, like a RIA maybe.

 

Saying outright that 1911's suck is like saying a 57 Chevy or a 70 Plymouth Superbird sucks.  They are classics and deserve, imo, a degree of admiration.  Still, a 1911 as a modern fighting pistol?  There seems to be better choices out there, but again, imo

[mav]

I agree with Yeager on 1911s I like to look at them, heck there are several I would like to own, but with modern ammo 9mm closes the gap ballistically plus I can hold 15 rounds or 17 with an extended mag not 8 or 9 with extended mag. I think Yeager says 1911s are inherently inaccurate, I disagree, cheap 1911s are more commonly inaccurate but I think with decent sights not the old gi sights they are usually accurate. But as a carry pistol it's not gonna be my first choice. I don't care a lot for Glocks, but they are an awesome (modern) design. We don't drive 100 year old designed cars or use 100 year old designed appliances, so my train of thought why defend yourself with 100 year old design handgun. If it works for you then train and adapt to it, I'm probably not gonna change your opinion anyways. But on that note 9mm is almost half the price of 45 so to me that means more training.

 

I guess I need to clarify my original post.  I did not use a 1911 in any of my training courses.  I did use a 2011.  I get all the benefits of a 1911 (accuracy, ergonomics, and most importantly to me, trigger), plus I get the added benefit of a larger capacity mag.  My 2011 is in 9mm, which is my prefered caliber, and the mag hold 17 rounds.  If I felt really in need, I could go to the longer mag which holds 26 rounds.

 

Right now, and for the last month, I have been carrying my Five Seven.  That is another gun I wouldn't hesitate to train with.  Don't know what Yeager's feelings are towards it, and don't really care.  I bought and carry it because I like it, and have never had any problems with it.  To me, that is all that matters on anything.

[TMF]

It has always confounded me why people talk about how they want a .45 for stopping power over the puny 9mm. If you are concerned with stopping power why not carry a .357 with federal 125 grain JHP? You don't get a better rep than that. There is a reason it was dubbed the "magic bullet."

I don't disagree with you in regard to caliber efficiency in regard to 9mm vs .45, but I carry 8+1 in my EDC 1911 and I feel that is sufficient enough. The way I carry it is more concealable and comfy than my G19, plus I'm a bit quicker with it and more accurate. If I can't solve a problem in 9 rounds or less I have bigger problems than what I can solve on my own. .45 does make bigger holes, but I agree it doesn't make a bad guy any more incapacitated compared to a 9mm if shot placement is good. If my EDC 1911 was in 9mm I'd probably like it better due to better round capacity and lighter recoil. But I gots what I gots, and I'm cool with that.

The folks who say it won't work after a 9 hour gun fight on the beaches of Normandy may be right, but I just need to go to Krogers to get some Cheetos and beer. I'm sure I'll be fine.

We should do this in a 1911 thread. I feel guilty about pushing Douchy McDoucherson's name up to the top again. Edited December 12, 2012 by TMF

[RobertNashville]

It has always confounded me why people talk about how they want a .45 for stopping power over the puny 9mm.  If you are concerned with stopping power why not carry a .357 with federal 125 grain JHP?  You don't get a better rep than that.  There is a reason it was dubbed the "magic bullet."

 

Now, liking the 1911 as a range run?  Oh yeah, I can totally dig that.  In fact I want one too.  I want one of those on the cheaper side like Dolomite was talking about, like a RIA maybe.

 

Saying outright that 1911's suck is like saying a 57 Chevy or a 70 Plymouth Superbird sucks.  They are classics and deserve, imo, a degree of admiration.  Still, a 1911 as a modern fighting pistol?  There seems to be better choices out there, but again, imo

There are plenty of good tests out there showing penetration and expansion of various calibers but bottom line is, you want to carry the most powerful load/caliber you can but it's important to keep in mind that NO handgun has true "stropping power"...they are all just pumped up pea shooters when you really get down to it.  We carry handguns because carrying a rifle everywhere isn't legal in most places (for different reasons) and isn't practical anyway.

My home defense "handgun" is a SCAR light (5.56) backed up by a 12ga pump backed up by various 45s and 10mm and 357 Sigs. including Glocks and yes, 1911 handguns in various locations that I can grab easily and quickly.

 

Still, the adage that when your life is at stake, any gun of any caliber that you have with you is better than any gun of any caliber you don't is still true.

 

I still love 1911s...I still carry a 1911 now and then but I know from personal experience and from the personal experiences of trainers who collectively have tens of thousands of hours watching various weapons on the range in training that 1911s tend to fail more often than, for example, Glocks so most of the time, that's what I carry...they simply tend to go bang when you pull the trigger with more dependability than most 1911s.

Edited December 12, 2012 by RobertNashville

[jaxjohn419]

I have never heard of this guy or incident, but I am curious about what happened. Here is a link of reports and documents about the incidents in Iraq. I have no dog in this hunt, but I do respect anyone that put their lives at risk over there, whether in battle dress or civies, getting paid or not. That #### was our generations Vietnam, but thankfully, with love and respect for the soldiers coming home. God bless them all.


http://web.archive.org/web/20060402200509/http://fuckersm.com/

 

I did use the word "soldiers" but not to indicate that Yaeger was one. I was simply referring to the fact that there is an outpouring of "Welcome Home" for those who served there, unlike VietNam. 

[tennessee01tacoma]

Allow me to clarify on my previous post. You guys that carry 1911 in .45, I don't mean any disrespect, a 1911 is just not the gun to carry for me. I'm not a really big guy I'm 5'9" and average build, not athletic or obese. I could conceal a 1911 no doubt. I love to shoot a .45, seeing the effects of the round on a reactive target puts a smile on my face. So why did I choose a 9mm to carry? I can shoot a .45 accurately and fairly fast, but I can shoot 9mm better. I don't wanna carry 400 rounds as a matter of fact I don't like carrying an extra mag so I can cram 15+1 in my pistol, if you could do that with a 1911 it would weigh 5lbs. Or with 2 1911 mags you can carry 14+1 or 16+1. I need all the practice I can get, I haven't been carrying long, I can buy twice as much 9mm for the same amount of money. For me a 1911 doesn't make sense as a carry pistol. I have seen several 1911s I would love to have in my collection. I'm not saying anyone's wrong for carrying a 1911, it's just not for me. But I will add that people who idolize 1911s without good reason get on my nerves.

[CQB Elite]

How did this thread go from talking about Yeager being called a coward to hating on 1911's?

I've owned a wide variety of pistols and carried Glock on duty. I'm very happy with the .40 S&W round and carry my G23 daily. I also have no problem strapping on my 1911. I trust that it will go bang.

The US military used the 1911 right up to 1985. They only went to the 9mm due to it being readily available on the battlefield. I bet you can find special operations units using the 1911 today. That says a lot to me. BTW, Larry Vickers teaches a 1911 Operator course. If he bothers to teach this class then he must see a place in combat/defense for the 1911. IMHO- Vickers is 1,000 times more credible as a trainer than Yeager.

Back to Yeager.

[RobertNashville]

How did this thread go from talking about Yeager being called a coward to hating on 1911's?

I've owned a wide variety of pistols and carried Glock on duty. I'm very happy with the .40 S&W round and carry my G23 daily. I also have no problem strapping on my 1911. I trust that it will go bang.

The US military used the 1911 right up to 1985. They only went to the 9mm due to it being readily available on the battlefield. I bet you can find special operations units using the 1911 today. That says a lot to me. BTW, Larry Vickers teaches a 1911 Operator course. If he bothers to teach this class then he must see a place in combat/defense for the 1911. IMHO- Vickers is 1,000 times more credible as a trainer than Yeager.

Back to Yeager.

That was my fault - Post No. 54