Adminstration to move all semi-autos to NFA status by Executive Order?

[Moped]

Yeah, I know. I remember being in the Army and me and my buddies were always like "boy, I can't wait for something to happen so we can strip people of their rights and push them around."

In fact, I was in a unit that was deployed to natural disasters such as Andrew and Opal. Man, let me tell you... we were rolling up grannies and gun owners by the gaggle and putting them in concentration camps as we wrung our hands and laughed about their rights.

The silly ones were all the officers I had who would always carry a Constitution handbook on their person, even in Iraq. If it ever came down to it, I guess we'd just shoot those Constitutional "believers" in the back so we can enact our rape and pillage plan.

Yep, automatons and thugs is how I would best describe my brothers in arms.

Sarcasm off.

I think there would be certain segments of the Military and LE that would attempt this, if so ordered.  But I don't think that a majority in the military would be all in for confiscation though.  I think LE in certain states and the big cities would though, without much of a thought.  The Military might be all in depending on what was going on.  If for some reason Marshall Law were declared in this country, for say rioting, throughout the nation, and pot shots were taken at military personnel, then I could see the Commanders being for taking civilian arms up in certain areas.  They now have experience with it, having worked in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[TMF]

The Military might be all in depending on what was going on. If for some reason Marshall Law were declared in this country, for say rioting, throughout the nation, and pot shots were taken at military personnel, then I could see the Commanders being for taking civilian arms up in certain areas. They now have experience with it, having worked in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I spent three years of my life fighting in Iraq. Every house was authorized to have an AK-47, and there is no right to bear arms guaranteed by their Constitution. They were allowed firearms (fully automatic ones at that) because it was understood that Iraqis had the right to defend themselves, and the security situation was bad. This was a policy decided on between the military commanders, State Department and Iraqi government. There was no mass confiscation of personal firearms and Iraqis shot at us all the time.

Unless we value the freedoms of Iraqis more than our own rights guaranteed by our Constitution then I don't see how what you are saying about our military makes any sense.

[QuietDan]

What TMF said. In spades.

 

And it wasn't all huggie-feelie with letting regular Iraqis keep their AK-47 for home and family defense. It kept us from having to pick up that burden, which would have tied up tens of thousands or even a hundred thousand Coalition troops and also put them at risk separating the sects. Iraqis armed for home and family defense also slowed down the inter-sect violence to a grudging, accepting, sullen, hateful acceptance of each other. If we had denied the sects arms for self-defense, one sect would have slaughtered the other given the chance.

 

I can't imagine U.S. troops under orders being involved in an extra-Constitutional (outside the constraints of the U.S. Constitution) gun grab. An executive order just wouldn't cut it. Congressional shenanigans wouldn't cut it either. U.S. troops are trained to refuse unlawful orders and that would be about as unlawful as you would ever see. It would validate the Founding Father's wisdom in underlining the inherent rights to self-defense and defense against Tyranny that the Second Amendment speaks to.

Edited December 23, 2012 by QuietDan

[Mark@Sea]

The only troops I would be concerned about would be F-troop.

[Moped]

Gentlemen, it was my understanding that when weapons were found in a home that was searched, that they were taken away from the home owners.  If that was not the case, then I stand corrected and apologize.

 

I too was in the service, and served in Desert Storm.  We were all taught about Lawful Orders and what to follow and what not to follow.  I also know that most young service members are going to do what they are told.  If the command structure were to go along with an order to disarm civilians, then I think many units would do what they are told.  They might not all like it and some would refuse, but I think a lot would, especially if it were couched in such a way, where they thought they might be in danger from civilians. 

[QuietDan]

Gentlemen, it was my understanding that when weapons were found in a home that was searched, that they were taken away from the home owners. 

 

They are always messing with the Rules of Engagement. For the time I was in Iraq, it was one magazine and one AK-47 per household, anything over that was confiscated and there was a good chance that the males would be cuffed with a bag over their head and taken off to be detained and questioned. However, I was not a door-kicker -- someone on this forum who was a door-kicker could probably validate this.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

The only troops I would be concerned about would be F-troop.

Me, too! I guess we read the same stuff, eh? :D That and their real life escapades make me always concerned.

[Mark@Sea]

Uh huh.

[Chucktshoes]

The only troops I would be concerned about would be F-troop.

Me, too! I guess we read the same stuff, eh? :D That and their real life escapades make me always concerned.

I think I read the same stuff, lol. Of course if they did go full retard, I think it would be open season. They'd be far too busy ducking to do much confiscating.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I think you're right, Chuck. They might make some noise until someone got hurt. Then, all bets are off.

 

You know? Out of our reading lists, the one common denominator with all I've read, anyway, has a giant sucking sound

somewhere in the plot that causes a lot of havoc, whether it be Sci-fi, philosophy or just fiction, and it often includes the

federal government in the bad guy mode. I wonder why? :D

[Mark@Sea]

Government is a necessary evil.  It possesses a mindless urge to expand.  It can only do so at the expense of liberty.  Its' only tools are deception and naked force.  Only heroic efforts and constant vigilance keep it confined, lest it escape and destroy its' creators.  It creates and controls mindless drones who look just like real people, yet they exist only to expand its' power.

  If that isn't the subject of nightmare, then what is?

Edited December 23, 2012 by Mark@Sea

[QuietDan]

Government is a necessary evil.  It possesses a mindless urge to expand.  It can only do so at the expense of liberty.  Its' only tools are deception and naked force.  Only heroic efforts and constant vigilance keep it confined, lest it escape and destroy its' creators.  It creates and controls mindless drones who look just like real people, yet they exist only to expand its' power.

  If that isn't the subject of nightmare, then what is?

 

I'd "Like" this, but I'm over quota for the day . . .

 

"Invasion of the Body Snatchers" addresses this in a science fiction format. At the time, it was a thinly veiled reference to The Communists and their insidious infiltration of our country.

 

Communism is, of course, a lie. It is sweet sounding lie that allows a small cadre of power-hungry people to garner Unaccounted-for Power. We need not dance around the issue, the God-Emperor Barack Hussein Obama is A Communist, and a front-man for even more insidious Communists, intent on Unaccounted-for Power.

Edited December 23, 2012 by QuietDan

[Guest 6.8 AR]

And I got scared of the Frankenstein movies, when I was little. Government trumps that by leaps and bounds.

 

government always needs to be taken down a notch or twenty. We dropped the ball and don't seem to know how to pick it up.

[Chucktshoes]

And I got scared of the Frankenstein movies, when I was little. Government trumps that by leaps and bounds.

government always needs to be taken down a notch or twenty. We dropped the ball and don't seem to know how to pick it up.

Well, people start giving me funny looks and back away every time I offer up a suggestion. ;)

[TMF]

government always needs to be taken down a notch or twenty. We dropped the ball and don't seem to know how to pick it up.

The only way is to attack the two parties. If 10% of voters decided to swing every election to oust incumbents we'd see a change.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I agree with that, TMF. I'm attacking the Republicans. Gave up on the Democrats a long time ago. I plan on seeing them

kill themselves off in Utopia, which they are very close to doing now.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I don't like the idea of an AWB but I guess that I would prefer that scary black guns become an NFA item before they are completely banned.  I think the only problem with this is that it would overwhelm the BATFE and clog up all NFA items and we know they would not add additional staff.

You would further compromise your life away? That is exactly what you would be doing.

 

I said in another post, yesterday, I think, that the NFA should be forced into nullification, or something along those lines, because it is already the prototype for the next registry, which will possibly include semi-automatic weapons. I was misunderstood, understandably, but the first list is an affront to every 2nd Amendment loving citizen in this country, and should have never been allowed to be passed. The law is unconstitutional, to begin with, and only made it more expensive to own and operate those certain classes of items in the registry. Well, it eventually limited the total number of machineguns on the list, and all that did was make them a more valuable commodity, not unlike a bar of gold, except with more restrictions.

 

The next thing that will happen with the registry, after everything else is swept into the registry, will be an incremental loss of all gun rights. Already been bounced around for years, just not much publicity. How does that sound?

 

We lose our rights when we do not defend them, with extreme love for those rights, and plenty of prejudice and disdain for those who wish to take them away. I was misunderstood about the registry by someone thinking I wanted to throw the NFA owners under the bus to preserve my rights with an AR-15. Not even close. There should never have been allowed the first encroachment with the registry and that should be aggressively pursued, even after all these years. The passage of time doesn't change something wrong into being right.

All I want to do, regardless of whether you think it could happen or not, is to completely unrape the 2nd Amendment, which is exactly what has happened to it, and the only way to effectively do that is undo the damage and make things right, while in the process of shutting these people up, finally, who want to take those

rights away.

 

I'm not talking "practically speaking". Being practical is foolish and you might as well sign your soul to the Devil while you're still alive and kicking.

 

Place your priorities a bit higher than a compromise between good and evil, because evil will kick your teeth in and rob the gold fillings. There is no other way to compromise. It ain't the same as negotiating, either, unless you're a lousy negotiator.

 

Why is this so hard to understand?

Edited December 24, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[mcurrier]

You know? Out of our reading lists, the one common denominator with all I've read, anyway, has a giant sucking sound
somewhere in the plot that causes a lot of havoc, whether it be Sci-fi, philosophy or just fiction, and it often includes the
federal government in the bad guy mode. I wonder why? :D

The order of govt., like the forward progressing order of the universe, is chaos, not actual order. It is a self-preserving entity like The Blob. Its only concern is to eat and grow, like the Borg, to assimilate everything in its path. It does not consider itself to exist for the benefit of others, but that others exist for its benefit. Perhapss SkyNet became conscious well before 1997. The Founding Fathers foresaw the inevitability of the bloated growth of the behemoth called govt. and made provision in multiple ways to restrain this monster's growth, to keep it reigned in, and a "break glass in case of emergency" button called the 2nd Amendment in case the self-destruct sequence accidentally or intentionally became activated. The question will be, do the Citizens of the United States of America possess the fortitude to break the glass if and when the time should come?

[FJCrusing]

"I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." -Grover Norquist

[Clod Stomper]

Yeah, I know. I remember being in the Army and me and my buddies were always like "boy, I can't wait for something to happen so we can strip people of their rights and push them around."

In fact, I was in a unit that was deployed to natural disasters such as Andrew and Opal. Man, let me tell you... we were rolling up grannies and gun owners by the gaggle and putting them in concentration camps as we wrung our hands and laughed about their rights.

The silly ones were all the officers I had who would always carry a Constitution handbook on their person, even in Iraq. If it ever came down to it, I guess we'd just shoot those Constitutional "believers" in the back so we can enact our rape and pillage plan.

Yep, automatons and thugs is how I would best describe my brothers in arms.

Sarcasm off.

 

Not sure of your point here.  You didn't do it, so it hasn't happened?  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tta1qhQZWSE

 

It's 9 and a half minutes of stuff that actually DID happen.  Oh, but many states passed laws to "prevent" that from happening (again).  

 

Well... it was illegal the first time.  Has any one of these thugs been prosecuted?  No?  So what's to keep them from breaking the law.  Again.

 

I don't doubt that you would disobey an unlawful order.  But I have little doubt that there are many who are willing and eager to kick in my door.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That is a sad reminder of what could happen again. I'm not expecting it, but it did happen once.

 

The only thing I remember about anyone getting prosecuted was some bad cops who were looting.

Something like that.

Edited December 24, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[Keyless]

 I see this as a " no win "  for the gun owner. I personally do not believe that there should be NFA items and all items in the firearm field should be legal for the law abiding citizen. The Tommy gun and others weapons were given the bad name by CRIMINALS who were evil. So now only if you have enough money and can jump through enough hoops , you can own a piece of history that was used in WW 2 .

 

 The gun owning American lost part of there rights when the NFA was passed. Then in 1986 they banned  the future production  of full auto for the civilian market. So now you have limited the maket to what was alredy made. All they did was set the price to the sky . What about the old guy who had a Thompson or M1 carbine or other full auto and for some reason or another , never registered it . He now has an illeagal weapon that can get him many years in jail and thousand of dollars in fines.

 

  What did he do to hurt anyone. Maybe he didn't have the money for the 200.00 stamp . Maybe he was fearful of his Government and figured that someone would be coming after it . Now we may be faced with the same thing. How many of these guns would just end up as an illeagal weapon ? How many people in this day and age , with the current " booming" economy  , could afford to pay 200.00 per weapon to register it ?  What if they make you register each magazine with a stamp like they do a silencer ? A silencer is attached to a weapon and by itself is just a piece of metal , yet they are classified as a weapon and must be registered as a NFA item with a 200.00 stamp .

 

 Of coarse , all this is just speculation , but I don't see the gun owner as able to not loose something in this . Whetther it is just a ban like Clinton did or worse . Looking at the previous track record , I see the biggest thing they will do is make it perminant and not run out in 10 years. The average person who has an AR , AK or other nice " evil " rifle ,pistol or magazine , that is his or her pride and joy , and obeys all the firearms laws will be faced with the choise of paying a fine to kepp there own legally obtained property or sending it into the never to be legal firearm and just ignore the 200.00 stamp and registration !  

 

 Our Government is very good at making stupid laws and adding laws on top of laws . What does it matter if someone beaks 1 or 5 laws when comes to it. Just inforce the 1 and move on. We have very few in congress with a backbone and even less with a brain. We have lost our rights everytime in the past , little by little . I hate to say it but we had more people with brains 40 years ago than we have now. They have been teaching that guns are evil but it is the prople who are evil. So the brain washed morons don't remember that we had to send weapons to Britan at the begining of WW 2 so they could DEFEND there own homeland.

 

What a sad state we are in. This man says it pretty good . Just check out (  Chuck Woolery on assult weapons ) on you tube. Very smart man and very well said .  Sorry for the rant .

[QuietDan]

There's a lot of folks who feel pretty strongly that The Obammunist didn't win the election outright, that there was industrial strength "Chicago Style" voter fraud on an unprecedented scale. It hasn't been challenged, so he's going to be re-inaugurated as president.

 

What it does mean, though, and you can feel it, is that a bare majority of the country can't stand him and isn't interested in working with him. That suppressed majority is in position to create much legislative trouble for him and his dictatorial aims. Much of this trouble will act out in the State Legislatures, which in many States are now Republican/Conservative/Libertarian to a very great degree. Thirty or more State Governors and their legislatures will fight him tooth and nail, and the harder The Obammunist pushes, the harder they will push back. You can hear the noise now in the various legislatures with Right to Work, With 10th Amendment Sovereignty, with refusal to State-support Obamacare, with broader 2nd Amendment and Concealed Carry stances. All hope is not lost for opposing an increasingly Tyrannical federal government led by a Dictator in Waiting.

[Moped]

There's a lot of folks who feel pretty strongly that The Obammunist didn't win the election outright, that there was industrial strength "Chicago Style" voter fraud on an unprecedented scale. It hasn't been challenged, so he's going to be re-inaugurated as president.

 

What it does mean, though, and you can feel it, is that a bare majority of the country can't stand him and isn't interested in working with him. That suppressed majority is in position to create much legislative trouble for him and his dictatorial aims. Much of this trouble will act out in the State Legislatures, which in many States are now Republican/Conservative/Libertarian to a very great degree. Thirty or more State Governors and their legislatures will fight him tooth and nail, and the harder The Obammunist pushes, the harder they will push back. You can hear the noise now in the various legislatures with Right to Work, With 10th Amendment Sovereignty, with refusal to State-support Obamacare, with broader 2nd Amendment and Concealed Carry stances. All hope is not lost for opposing an increasingly Tyrannical federal government led by a Dictator in Waiting.

I don't agree with the first part of your post.  I don't think there was any kind of fix on to get him re-elected.  I just think there are a lot of stupid. naive people that voted for him. The stupid ones are looking for a handout and will turn on the Democratic Party when the tap runs dry.  The Naive ones are looking for the easy fix to the economy. What they don't understand is there isn't an easy fix.  We have to go on the Dave Ramsey Plan and live within our means. However I think you are right on with the rest of your post. I see a tremendous amount of push back against his and the ENTIRE Democratic agenda by the Red States (which is most of them outside the Northeast and Left Coast).

Edited December 24, 2012 by Moped

[Guest 6.8 AR]

 I see this as a " no win "  for the gun owner. I personally do not believe that there should be NFA items and all items in the firearm field should be legal for the law abiding citizen. The Tommy gun and others weapons were given the bad name by CRIMINALS who were evil. So now only if you have enough money and can jump through enough hoops , you can own a piece of history that was used in WW 2 .

 

 The gun owning American lost part of there rights when the NFA was passed. Then in 1986 they banned  the future production  of full auto for the civilian market. So now you have limited the maket to what was alredy made. All they did was set the price to the sky . What about the old guy who had a Thompson or M1 carbine or other full auto and for some reason or another , never registered it . He now has an illeagal weapon that can get him many years in jail and thousand of dollars in fines.

 

  What did he do to hurt anyone. Maybe he didn't have the money for the 200.00 stamp . Maybe he was fearful of his Government and figured that someone would be coming after it . Now we may be faced with the same thing. How many of these guns would just end up as an illeagal weapon ? How many people in this day and age , with the current " booming" economy  , could afford to pay 200.00 per weapon to register it ?  What if they make you register each magazine with a stamp like they do a silencer ? A silencer is attached to a weapon and by itself is just a piece of metal , yet they are classified as a weapon and must be registered as a NFA item with a 200.00 stamp .

 

 Of coarse , all this is just speculation , but I don't see the gun owner as able to not loose something in this . Whetther it is just a ban like Clinton did or worse . Looking at the previous track record , I see the biggest thing they will do is make it perminant and not run out in 10 years. The average person who has an AR , AK or other nice " evil " rifle ,pistol or magazine , that is his or her pride and joy , and obeys all the firearms laws will be faced with the choise of paying a fine to kepp there own legally obtained property or sending it into the never to be legal firearm and just ignore the 200.00 stamp and registration !  

 

 Our Government is very good at making stupid laws and adding laws on top of laws . What does it matter if someone beaks 1 or 5 laws when comes to it. Just inforce the 1 and move on. We have very few in congress with a backbone and even less with a brain. We have lost our rights everytime in the past , little by little . I hate to say it but we had more people with brains 40 years ago than we have now. They have been teaching that guns are evil but it is the prople who are evil. So the brain washed morons don't remember that we had to send weapons to Britan at the begining of WW 2 so they could DEFEND there own homeland.

 

What a sad state we are in. This man says it pretty good . Just check out (  Chuck Woolery on assult weapons ) on you tube. Very smart man and very well said .  Sorry for the rant .

There is no reason for a "no win" if the constitution loving Americans decide, for once, to decide to stick together on something as necessary as this. I don't care one bit what someone paid for something, as it has nothing to do with principled reasoning and logic, along with all the data, to cause all those Americans to see that illogical laws cause bad consequences. The NFA registry is a dangerous threat, being the prototype of a future registry of all weapons.

 

So, if people don't see the challenge of fighting the NFA and all the other laws on the books, they are doomed to be consumed by it, one more time and we will see another loss of opportunity for the Constitution.

 

Things like laws sit around and lie dormant for long periods until their potential is fully realized. With Obamacare and our current financial situation, we are likely to see so much more fascism trump every "right" we have, in rapidly increasing intervals. I just don't understand why rational people don't see this and more jump on it.

 

I've been saying this kind of thing around here since the first days I started posting, and I am so surprised of the few gun owners who don't understand this and either disagree or remain silent.

 

There's your nation of sheep. It's right in the gun owning community. It will be our undoing.

Edited December 24, 2012 by 6.8 AR