"PRIVATE" security Rambo at Wallmart kills a shoplifter.

[RobertNashville]

[quote name='scoutfsu' timestamp='1354118100' post='851913']
Extreme sarcasm. Just like my post under that stupid f'ing picture of the Nazi. Check out my other posts in this thread. They're a bit more informative and conversational. But some things, like that quote and picture, deserve to be ridiculed.

ETA: And my edited response wasn't meant to sound snippy. Sometimes threads get so long, a lot of what was said is forgotten or people don't read everything.
[/quote]

Even starting back in Compuserve chatroom days through to the present, I've found with electronic, written communication, it's very easy for people to misunderstand you or ascribe intent to something said/posted that was never intended.

For some reason, TGO seems to be where I've experienced that most for myself.

I don't know if it's me or everybody else but I guess it's probably me.

[Links2k]

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1354122732' post='851969']


Even starting back in Compuserve chatroom days through to the present, I've found with electronic, written communication, it's very easy for people to misunderstand you or ascribe intent to something said/posted that was never intended.
[/quote]

True

[Guest rebeldrummer]

[quote name='scoutfsu' timestamp='1354118100' post='851913']
Extreme sarcasm. Just like my post under that stupid f'ing picture of the Nazi. Check out my other posts in this thread. They're a bit more informative and conversational. But some things, like that quote and picture, deserve to be ridiculed.

ETA: And my edited response wasn't meant to sound snippy. Sometimes threads get so long, a lot of what was said is forgotten or people don't read everything.
[/quote]

i have read all the posts....or so I thought? either i missed some (like yours) or just did not gather it was in sarcasm at first...so my bad.

[K191145]

I have read several stories about this incident and what is clear about it is, the security guard and employees violated Walmarts policy on handling a shoplifter, the guard put the shoplifter in a choke hold, when real police arrived they found the man unconscience and bleeding from the nose and mouth then was pronounced dead a short time later. Sure sounds like the guard went way too far in subduing someone who lifted a few CD's. I guess I just happen to actually care about a persons constitutional rights, and yes, even a common thief still has some constitutional rights left, at least not to be mishandled to the point of death by a private security guard who apparently had little or poor training. It's obvious a few here have their panties in a wad because I cared about the dead mans rights which makes me wonder how much they really care about someones constitutional rights. Anyway, I stand by what I believe regardless of what a anyone else believes and i'm not going to apologize for it.

[TMF]

[quote name='K191145' timestamp='1354140422' post='852090']I have read several stories about this incident and what is clear about it is, the security guard and employees violated Walmarts policy on handling a shoplifter, the guard put the shoplifter in a choke hold, when real police arrived they found the man unconscience and bleeding from the nose and mouth then was pronounced dead a short time later. Sure sounds like the guard went way too far in subduing someone who lifted a few CD's. I guess I just happen to actually care about a persons constitutional rights, and yes, even a common thief still has some constitutional rights left, at least not to be mishandled to the point of death by a private security guard who apparently had little or poor training. It's obvious a few here have their panties in a wad because I cared about the dead mans rights which makes me wonder how much they really care about someones constitutional rights. Anyway, I stand by what I believe regardless of what a anyone else believes and i'm not going to apologize for it.[/quote]

Don't be surprised when he isn't charged or convicted of anything. Last time I checked Walmart policy had diddly squat to do with law. In fact, Walmart policy on pursuing shoplifters has nothing to do with loss prevention and everything to do with civil lawsuits from slimy, vulturous lawyers.

[K191145]

[quote name='TMF' timestamp='1354144386' post='852112']


Don't be surprised when he isn't charged or convicted of anything. Last time I checked Walmart policy had diddly squat to do with law. In fact, Walmart policy on pursuing shoplifters has nothing to do with loss prevention and everything to do with civil lawsuits from slimy, vulturous lawyers.
[/quote]

I not surprised by much anything these days, sometimes somebody that should be charged isn't, and sometimes the law works as it should like this example.
http://www.wcyb.com/news/No-charges-in-bounty-hunter-shooting/-/14590844/17423230/-/wl8479z/-/index.html

[quote]Sullivan County District Attorney Barry Staubus tells News 5 that the grand jury heard the evidence in the case on Tuesday and decided that David Cresong acted in self-defense when he shot Joseph Scott Horne in August.
32-year-old Horne was in Cresong's trailer park in Bristol, Tennessee trying to find a fugitive for a local bonding company when he mistakenly thought Cresong was the fugitive.[/quote] Edited November 28, 2012 by K191145

[DaveTN]

[quote name='K191145' timestamp='1354140422' post='852090']
I have read several stories about this incident and what is clear about it is, the security guard and employees violated Walmarts policy on handling a shoplifter, the guard put the shoplifter in a choke hold, when real police arrived they found the man unconscience and bleeding from the nose and mouth then was pronounced dead a short time later. Sure sounds like the guard went way too far in subduing someone who lifted a few CD's. I guess I just happen to actually care about a persons constitutional rights, and yes, even a common thief still has some constitutional rights left, at least not to be mishandled to the point of death by a private security guard who apparently had little or poor training. It's obvious a few here have their panties in a wad because I cared about the dead mans rights which makes me wonder how much they really care about someones constitutional rights. Anyway, I stand by what I believe regardless of what a anyone else believes and i'm not going to apologize for it.
[/quote]
What about the Constitutional Rights of the guy being punched in the face? The guy didn’t get killed for stealing DVD’s he got killed because he had to be forcibly restrained because he was committing a battery. Wal-Mart may have a store policy that you have to crower and run away when a violent criminal attacks you; but thankfully that has no bearing on criminal law.

[TMF]

[quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1354146819' post='852127']
What about the Constitutional Rights of the guy being punched in the face? The guy didn’t get killed for stealing DVD’s he got killed because he had to be forcibly restrained because he was committing a battery. Wal-Mart may have a store policy that you have to crower and run away when a violent criminal attacks you; but thankfully that has no bearing on criminal law.[/quote]

This right here is the crux of the whole incident. Finding 12 people who all agree that the actions of the security guard were not reasonable would be tough. Heck, as a patron, if I was at Walmart and saw an employee being beaten I would absolutely intervene and subdue the attacker. Having broke up plenty of fights I can tell you my "go to" move is putting the dude in a choke hold. It gives great control and allows the option of putting him to sleep if he doesn't submit. It looks like the guard did exactly that, and was in a capacity where he may have felt duty bound to stop the assault. Walmart policies be damned, if you saw your boss getting beaten and you were a security guard, you may feel obligated to intervene. I mean, damn. I could present all that to a jury having zero law experience and get them to find him not guilty. Why would anyone call it murder other than allowing emotion to cloud logic and reason?

[scoutfsu]

TMF,
Because people like the OP have all sorts of grudges for all sorts of reasons. Bank on the fact that because it was a WalMart, people will feel like they're sticking it to big business too. Look at the people in this thread that are lamenting this criminal.....even though in the commission of a criminal act he initiated, then escalated to battery.....things went wrong. As a result of his direct, criminal actions - things spun out of control and he ended up dead.

And people want to hang the police reject private security rambo out to dry.

[Guest rebeldrummer]

[quote name='scoutfsu' timestamp='1354155037' post='852198']
TMF,
Because people like the OP have all sorts of grudges for all sorts of reasons. Bank on the fact that because it was a WalMart, people will feel like they're sticking it to big business too. Look at the people in this thread that are lamenting this criminal.....even though in the commission of a criminal act he initiated, then escalated to battery.....things went wrong. As a result of his direct, criminal actions - things spun out of control and he ended up dead.

And people want to hang the police reject private security rambo out to dry.
[/quote]

um hmm....i see what your doing here (again!) ha ha ha ha

[scoutfsu]

[dralarms]

[quote name='scoutfsu' timestamp='1354156551' post='852222']

[/quote]

Don't taze me bro.

[scoutfsu]

Only if you're an innocent grandmother or a [b]UF( [/b][b] )[/b][b] [/b]student

[Guest RevScottie]

[quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1354146819' post='852127']

What about the Constitutional Rights of the guy being punched in the face? The guy didn’t get killed for stealing DVD’s he got killed because he had to be forcibly restrained because he was committing a battery. Wal-Mart may have a store policy that you have to crower and run away when a violent criminal attacks you; but thankfully that has no bearing on criminal law.
[/quote]

Being punched in the face doesn't give you the right to take someone else's life accidental or not.

[TMF]

[quote name='scoutfsu' timestamp='1354155037' post='852198']TMF,
Because people like the OP have all sorts of grudges for all sorts of reasons. Bank on the fact that because it was a WalMart, people will feel like they're sticking it to big business too. Look at the people in this thread that are lamenting this criminal.....even though in the commission of a criminal act he initiated, then escalated to battery.....things went wrong. As a result of his direct, criminal actions - things spun out of control and he ended up dead.

[/quote]

I believe you are correct.

[TGO David]

So I had an interesting PM this morning. One of our members who has worked in the private security industry called the regulatory board that oversees licensing for such things in Tennessee and learned that someone in this thread, who has been very vocal and claims to currently work private security, is NOT licensed in the state of Tennessee. It seems his armed guard license expired on February 28th, 2009.

I'm not naming names, but clearly there is some interest in whether people are full of it or not and I wanted to throw this out there. Point being, either someone here is telling stories that aren't true or they're not operating within the law and maybe they should get that fixed.

Just a friendly reminder that on the Internet there are both posers and professionals. The professionals [b][u]are[/u][/b] watching.

[E4 No More]

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1354122732' post='851969']
Even starting back in Compuserve chatroom days through to the present, I've found with electronic, written communication, it's very easy for people to misunderstand you or ascribe intent to something said/posted that was never intended.

For some reason, TGO seems to be where I've experienced that most for myself.

I don't know if it's me or everybody else but I guess it's probably me.
[/quote]One uses only 7% of their communication skills when they write.

[K191145]

[quote name='RevScottie' timestamp='1354160038' post='852258']


Being punched in the face doesn't give you the right to take someone else's life accidental or not.
[/quote]

I'm just assuming, and maybe an LEO can verify it but either anger control is part of the training or should be. I actually applaud LEO's who remain in control of their anger when detaining someone who wants to fight, may have punched them in the face or spit on them etc. I don't know if I would be able to control my anger with some of the video's i've seen of some suspects and I do realize they often have to get very physical with some of them to subdue them. It's just hard to imagine that a security guard and two other employees had to use a hold that many police departments have banned to subdue one man and the force in which it seems was applied. A logical theory might be that the security guard was punched in the face which understandably caused alot of anger so when he applied the choke hold he used more force than needed and for a longer time than needed, his anger controlled him. I also have to assume that a choke hold is banned by many police departments because it's potentially dangerous and could cause harm or death.

[TMF]

[quote name='K191145' timestamp='1354207383' post='852443']

I'm just assuming, and maybe an LEO can verify it but either anger control is part of the training or should be. I actually applaud LEO's who remain in control of their anger when detaining someone who wants to fight, may have punched them in the face or spit on them etc. I don't know if I would be able to control my anger with some of the video's i've seen of some suspects and I do realize they often have to get very physical with some of them to subdue them. It's just hard to imagine that a security guard and two other employees had to use a hold that many police departments have banned to subdue one man and the force in which it seems was applied. A logical theory might be that the security guard was punched in the face which understandably caused alot of anger so when he applied the choke hold he used more force than needed and for a longer time than needed, his anger controlled him. I also have to assume that a choke hold is banned by many police departments because it's potentially dangerous and could cause harm or death.[/quote]

You still have no idea how he died.

[Lumber_Jack]

[quote name='RevScottie' timestamp='1354160038' post='852258']

Being punched in the face doesn't give you the right to take someone else's life accidental or not.[/quote]

I'm not sure this is valid. Come punch me in the face and my first reaction will be to draw. This guy chose to use his hands(choke hold). If you are being attacked (punched) at what point do you judge your life to be in danger. People die all the time in fights. I don't start them, but if you come at me I will defend myself.

[RobertNashville]

While it's true that we don't yet know exactly how/why the mane died; when has that ever stopped us?

Having no idea of the facts didn't stop many of the same players in this thread, me included, from speculating all to hell about Zimmerman/Martin did it; or just about any other news story like this for that matter. While we don't know exactly what caused the man's death and won't until after an autopsy, it certainly isn't unreasonable to think that the "security guard's" choke hold played a part is it?

I have, and I know of several others on this board have ridiculed WalMart for their "non-involvement/non-confrontational" policy when it comes to shoplifting yet I suspect it's situations like that that WalMart specifically wanted to avoid.

Doesn't seem like such a dumb policy now.

All the store employees and the security guard (who would at least be an indirect if not direct WalMart employee) involved in this incident acted against company policy (at least as I know the policy) when they pursued and attempted to apprehend the shoplifter and now the shoplifter is dead and WalMart is probably on the hook for a very fat lawsuit payout even though WalMart did nothing wrong in this case. By disobeying their employer's policy these employees have made their lives a living hell for at least a while and if the autopsy shows that the guard's action caused or contributed to the man's death the guard will probably do some jail time (and rightfully so).

And all to protect a couple hundred dollars worth of stuff that wasn't even their stuff - how incredibly stupid.

Edited November 29, 2012 by RobertNashville

[RobertNashville]

[quote name='Lumber_Jack' timestamp='1354212771' post='852474']
I'm not sure this is valid. Come punch me in the face and my first reaction will be to draw. This guy chose to use his hands(choke hold). If you are being attacked (punched) at what point do you judge your life to be in danger. People die all the time in fights. I don't start them, but if you come at me I will defend myself.[/quote]
You have to make that decision in a split second but it had better be the right one because a LEO and then perhaps a DA and eventually a jury will have endless hours and days to try and figure out if you made the right one.

Even at my age and physical condition, I doubt I'm going to think someone hitting me in the face justifies me drawing my weapon...if they keep beating me or seem to be intent on doing so then that's another matter.

[Guest rebeldrummer]

retracted.... Edited November 29, 2012 by rebeldrummer

[mikegideon]

[quote name='rebeldrummer' timestamp='1354213347' post='852479']
retracted....
[/quote]

Once you show your pecker in the Internet, it's there forever

[IMG]http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/mikegideon1/brett-favre-o-face.jpg[/IMG]

[Guest rebeldrummer]

[quote name='mikegideon' timestamp='1354214843' post='852489']
Once you show your pecker in the Internet, it's there forever
[/quote]

noted...still didnt want to stoop to others levels and air anything out on the thread. i even think some where in TGO history mods other others in authority have asked us not to do that?? just trying to comply.

Edited November 29, 2012 by rebeldrummer