"PRIVATE" security Rambo at Wallmart kills a shoplifter.

[K191145]

[url="http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-law/alleged-shoplifter-dies-after-being-subdued-by-wal/nTFPx/"]http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-law/alleged-shoplifter-dies-after-being-subdued-by-wal/nTFPx/[/url]

Now I don't like shoplifting but there's a limit to what employees and some police reject private security Rambo can do. I don't have very much respect for "private security" cop wannabe's, there's no real standards in training and I don't recognize any real authority they think they have. Seems that any bozo can buy a business licence that says So & So Security Co., buy a pair of dark blue pants with a stripe and a light blue shirt and pin a store bought badge on it and claim they have some authority over other people. Like I said, I give no respect to a badge unless it's issued by a city, county, state, or federal government.

[Spots]

Play stupid games.... Maybe I'm just an ###hole, but looks like nothing but another dead thief to me. And we could use a lot more of those around here.

[Murgatroy]

Cat didn't deserve to die, but he was playing a stupid game, and we all know that is a good way to win stupid prizes.

I have a friend who works loss prevention. He got somewhere upwards of twenty stitches from a shoplifter who used a box cutter to try and slice his throat when he was confronted. I don't have pity on them.

[Dolomite_supafly]

In our state security guards are trained and must meet a minimum standard to work in the security field. As a matter of fact you must be licensed, which isn't cheap, to be able to do it. With the armed guard license you must qualify with the caliber you are going to be carrying while working. You are issued a state ID that expires every couple of years. Now I am not saying that it is difficult to pass but there is a process to weed out all the problem people. It is also possible to launch a state investigation into security guards without ever talking to their employer.

As far as the shoplifter I don't think the guard meant to kill him but had it not been for the shoplifter's actions nothing would have happened. What probably happened is the guard had the guy in a choke hold and held it until officers arrived, choking the shoplifter to death. Too easy to do, especially in the heat of the moment with the adrenaline flowing.

The guard is likely going to be charged with manslaughter and maybe even the employees. He will get convicted but probably will not get too much time, if any, in jail.

Dolomite

[UncleJak]

I don't believe we should kill thieves. Instead we should cut off their hands.

[Steelharp]

[quote name='UncleJak' timestamp='1353937686' post='850748']
I don't believe we should kill thieves. Instead we should cut off their hands.
[/quote]

Touch of Islam, eh?

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

Most likely the Wally World Associates will be terminated once the internal investigation is completed.
This AP-09 is a couple of years out of date and I'm sure there has been a revised version since.
[url="http://media.bonnint.net/slc/2489/248982/24898223.pdf"]http://media.bonnint...82/24898223.pdf[/url] Edited November 26, 2012 by ArmyVeteran37214

[G27]

[quote name='ArmyVeteran37214' timestamp='1353939162' post='850750']
Most likely the Wally World Associates will be terminated once the internal investigation is completed.
[url="http://media.bonnint.net/slc/2489/248982/24898223.pdf"]http://media.bonnint...82/24898223.pdf[/url]
[/quote]
Yup, as they should be. Direct violation of company policy which resulted in a death.

[Volzfan]

Killing someone over stuff is a bit extreme but my question is why bother with a loss prevention team if they can't physically detain the thief?

[Steelharp]

[quote name='Volzfan' timestamp='1353947701' post='850806']
Killing someone over stuff is a bit extreme but my question is why bother with a loss prevention team if they can't physically detain the thief?
[/quote]

Very true. But, there's a difference in detention, and "detention Bauer style."

[BryanP]

[quote name='Volzfan' timestamp='1353947701' post='850806']
Killing someone over stuff is a bit extreme but my question is why bother with a loss prevention team if they can't physically detain the thief?
[/quote]

A large part of that job is looking more for internal theft, or for cashiers working with an outsider to slide things past the scanner without actually ringing them up, usually in the middle of other less expensive items they do ring up. There's a reason they have a camera right over each register.

[Dolomite_supafly]

[quote name='Volzfan' timestamp='1353947701' post='850806']
Killing someone over stuff is a bit extreme but my question is why bother with a loss prevention team if they can't physically detain the thief?
[/quote]

They are supposed to be witnesses, nothing more. They can ask the shoplifter to come back inside but the criminal can just keep walking.

Dolomite

[K191145]

[quote name='Volzfan' timestamp='1353947701' post='850806']
Killing someone over stuff is a bit extreme but my question is why bother with a loss prevention team if they can't physically detain the thief?
[/quote]

But who should detain the thief? It seems like the security guard who choked out the thief wasn't trained to well. I don't see too many Walmart cashiers that looks qualified to get into a physical altercation with a thief either. There maybe some well trained private security guards, maybe ex-cops but I really believe that most are barely qualified to call 911 on their cell phone, much less to properly take down a criminal. Unless you're licenced and trained by a law enforcement acadamy or school approved by law enforcement then you have no business getting physical with a suspect. Now if you're in your own home or on your property that is different, hired security guards usually don't own the property they guard. Also if they are "PRIVATE" security, they are private citizens with no real police authority, no more authority than me or you. I told my neighbor I would keep an eye out on his property below me but if I see a strange car on his property all i'm going to do is call him and let him know, I have no authority to detain anyone on his property because i,m not a city, county, state, or federal cop.

[RobertNashville]

Security guard or simply private citizen, except in significantly extenuating circumstances, no one should be killed to protect property; most especially property that the one doing the killing doesn't even own.

This thief deserved to be stopped and arrested and tried and, if found guilty he deserved to be punished but he didn't deserve to be executed.

[Smith]

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1353951064' post='850833']
Security guard or simply private citizen, except in significantly extenuating circumstances, no one should be killed to protect property; most especially property that the one doing the killing doesn't even own.

This thief deserved to be stopped and arrested and tried and, if found guilty he deserved to be punished but he didn't deserve to be executed.
[/quote]

He wasn't executed. He triggered a response and he played the game. Can't complain when it doesn't go your way. Why do we hold responders to a higher responsibility than the criminal? The criminal went in knowing what he was doing, the reponders did simply that - respond. I give them a whole lot more latitutde.

This attitude is why recidivism is a given, not an anomaly.

[Guest Mad4rcn]

[quote name='K191145' timestamp='1353913082' post='850718']
[url="http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-law/alleged-shoplifter-dies-after-being-subdued-by-wal/nTFPx/"]http://www.ajc.com/n...d-by-wal/nTFPx/[/url]

Now I don't like shoplifting but there's a limit to what employees and some police reject private security Rambo can do. I don't have very much respect for "private security" cop wannabe's, there's no real standards in training and I don't recognize any real authority they think they have. Seems that any bozo can buy a business licence that says So & So Security Co., buy a pair of dark blue pants with a stripe and a light blue shirt and pin a store bought badge on it and claim they have some authority over other people. Like I said, I give no respect to a badge unless it's issued by a city, county, state, or federal government.
[/quote]

Not just any bozo,but a bozo with a clean background
a bozo who opens up all of his financials to the state for they're scrunity
a bozo with a minimum of three years experiance in the military or with a police department at the rank of captain or higher
a bozo with an insurance policy of a minimum of $ 2 million for most clients,a little less for others
a bozo with various bonds to cover employees ,that all depends on the client also
a bozo who has to have 3 major references from three major financial institutions
and last but not least , a bozo that can pass a 500 question wriiten and oral test on the expectations of security,and the laws
of the state that they intend to work in

go to the TN.GOV website and look up the laws governing the security industry,I've been an armed security officer for years,
never pulled my weapon,never choked anyone out,I have struck an individual with my baton,
the main responsibility of any security officer is to observe and report.
I guess I could be a bozo,have to ask my kids,but I do know that like it when I come home every day.

They're a$$hats in every industry you work in,sometimes it's difficult to weed them out,hopefully you can before something like this happens so everything you work so hard to grow is blown away like a dry fart in a tornado, good day. Edited November 26, 2012 by Mad4rcn

[Guest rebeldrummer]

[quote name='AK Guy' timestamp='1353952716' post='850838']
He wasn't executed. He triggered a response and he played the game. Can't complain when it doesn't go your way. Why do we hold responders to a higher responsibility than the criminal? The criminal went in knowing what he was doing, the reponders did simply that - respond. I give them a whole lot more latitutde.

This attitude is why recidivism is a given, not an anomaly.
[/quote]

agreed

[RobertNashville]

[quote name='AK Guy' timestamp='1353952716' post='850838']
He wasn't executed. He triggered a response and he played the game. Can't complain when it doesn't go your way. Why do we hold responders to a higher responsibility than the criminal? The criminal went in knowing what he was doing, the reponders did simply that - respond. I give them a whole lot more latitutde.

This attitude is why recidivism is a given, not an anomaly.
[/quote]
Yeah...he only killed the thief by choking him to death - does changing the word "executed" to "murdered" or "killed" make the man less dead or the act more reasonable? Seems like a difference without a distinction to me.

We hold responders to a higher responsibility because they are [u][i]supposed[/i][/u][i] [/i]to know the law and the consequences of their actions (whether they do or not) plus the law places a high fiduciary responsibility for the safety of anyone they have restrained/incarcerated. This rent-a-cop killed a man to protect "stuff"; stuff that wasn't even his stuff and did so contrary to the policies of his employer...he will almost certainly be charged with manslaughter and rightfully so, just as any private citizen would be as well; no one deserves that much latitude.

Edited November 26, 2012 by RobertNashville

[DaveTN]

We are a weak people when we have to stand by and watch thieves walk away. I don't care if its a store employee, Security Guard or Cop; no special training is needed to walk up to a person and ask them to step back into the store they are under arrest. If they decided to fight; so be it. People die fighting trained cops the same as Security Guards.

When we have to stand by like sheep and let the criminals have their way there will be no safety anywhere.

[mikegideon]

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1353953939' post='850852']
Yeah...he only killed the thief by choking him to death - does changing the word "executed" to "murdered" or "killed" make the man less dead or the act more reasonable? Seems like a difference without a distinction to me.

We hold responders to a higher responsibility because they are [u][i]supposed[/i][/u][i] [/i]to know the law and the consequences of their actions (whether they do or not) plus the law places a high fiduciary responsibility for the safety of anyone they have restrained/incarcerated. This rent-a-cop killed a man to protect "stuff"; stuff that wasn't even his stuff and did so contrary to the policies of his employer...he will almost certainly be charged with manslaughter and rightfully so, just as any private citizen would be as well; no one deserves that much latitude.
[/quote]

We may wanna slow down a little until the medical examiner's report comes out. That's what law enforcement is doing. The guy was middle aged. Bacon could have killed him.

[Steelharp]

[quote name='mikegideon' timestamp='1353954981' post='850860']Bacon could have killed him.
[/quote]

But... but... I just had bacon... SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!!!!!

[RobertNashville]

[quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1353954639' post='850858']We are a weak people when we have to stand by and watch thieves walk away....
[/quote]That doesn't mean the thief needs to die. No one is saying the thief shouldn't be punished. Edited November 26, 2012 by RobertNashville

[mikegideon]

[quote name='Steelharp' timestamp='1353955071' post='850862']
But... but... I just had bacon... SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!!!!!
[/quote]

What a way to go. Just don't go stealing any DVD players. Probably don't need to get that worked up

[RobertNashville]

[quote name='mikegideon' timestamp='1353954981' post='850860']
We may wanna slow down a little until the medical examiner's report comes out. That's what law enforcement is doing. The guy was middle aged. Bacon could have killed him. [/quote]Bacon or a dozen other things may have played a part but I am pretty sure bacon alone didn't do the guy in.

Regardless of contributing medical factors, I don't think (and most state laws agree) that a thief should die simply because someone is protecting property.

[mikegideon]

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1353955771' post='850867']
Bacon or a dozen other things may have played a part but I am pretty sure bacon alone didn't do the guy in.

Regardless of contributing medical factors, I don't think (and most state laws agree) that a thief should die simply because someone is protecting property.
[/quote]

No, but he may have needed a punch in the face. We're doin' that TGO thing again. Not enough info.