Are Walmart guns different?

[Hi Point Hooligan]

Well I guess you guys are gonna ride me out on a rail when I say this.. and before I do I understand everyone works hard for their money and can do what they want with it. But I for one will NOT buy a firearm from wally world, nor will I buy ammo.. I support my LGS, why ??? Well when I visit I am treated like family, never spoken down to.. Always treated fairly. At wal-mart I am just another number.. Wal-mart is killing the little guys, and what are we going to do when the little guys are gone??? Do you think you will find a "Gunsmith" at wal-mart??? Nope...

Like I said it is your money, do what you will.. But please stop feeding the beast..

[TrickyNicky]

[quote name='Hi Point Hooligan' timestamp='1353827713' post='850366']
Well I guess you guys are gonna ride me out on a rail when I say this.. and before I do I understand everyone works hard for their money and can do what they want with it. But I for one will NOT buy a firearm from wally world, nor will I buy ammo.. I support my LGS, why ??? Well when I visit I am treated like family, never spoken down to.. Always treated fairly. At wal-mart I am just another number.. Wal-mart is killing the little guys, and what are we going to do when the little guys are gone??? Do you think you will find a "Gunsmith" at wal-mart??? Nope...

Like I said it is your money, do what you will.. But please stop feeding the beast..
[/quote]

I don't know, I have always gotten exceptional treatment from the two regular guys at my local WM. Even the noodle head who thought 5.56 was over powered for deer getting was polite, just not very well informed.

I "spread the wealth" in regards to the local shops, when it comes to things like guns, holsters, accessories of that nature I shop local with TGO vendors or worst case online usually with Joebobs who are also vendors.
When it comes to ammo I hate to say it but I buy too much to not save everything I possibly can shy of reloading(yet) or buying in the kind of bulk that would allow me to break even.

All in all I save a few bucks and I'm confident I help keep the mom and pop stores in business as well.

[Guest TankerHC]

[quote name='Hi Point Hooligan' timestamp='1353827713' post='850366']
Well I guess you guys are gonna ride me out on a rail when I say this.. and before I do I understand everyone works hard for their money and can do what they want with it. But I for one will NOT buy a firearm from wally world, nor will I buy ammo.. I support my LGS, why ??? Well when I visit I am treated like family, never spoken down to.. Always treated fairly. At wal-mart I am just another number.. Wal-mart is killing the little guys, and what are we going to do when the little guys are gone??? Do you think you will find a "Gunsmith" at wal-mart??? Nope...

Like I said it is your money, do what you will.. But please stop feeding the beast..
[/quote]

That is understandable, people are free to spend their hard earned cash as they see fit. But I will shop at Walmart, and Academy, Dicks, Buds, and all the rest. But LGS's also get my business. Usually its not in guns. First, there is very little profit in selling new firearms from a mom and pop to start with. Net on selling a new firearm is only around $10-$30. The money in the mom and pops come from selling accessories and ammo. There is a huge markup on accesories, and ammo markup is nearly 50% in most cases. Small LGS can compete and stay in business, its a free market economy, Walmart doesnt have a huge selection to start with, but I cannot justify under any circumstances, spending $239 or more on a 10/22 when they go for $199 at a big box store, or over $400 for an 870, when I can get them for $349 elsewhere. You either compete, or you go out of business, and right here are some perfect examples of how to stay in business and how not to stay in business.

One of our LGS is going out of business, the store is less than a mile from me. Been in business since the early 70's, has an indoor range. He claims he is just retiring, everyone here knows better. Every gun he sold for the last 10 years was marked up above MSRP. Same with Ammo and all accesories. Range time was $15 for 30 minutes, and you couldnt use your own targets, they had to be bought, at a super high markup from them, and other than some Smith services they offered nothing to the Sportsman (He carried everything outdoors). Lots of reloading equipment, all marked up way above MSRP. Would not budge a dollar on Firearms and carried nothing but new. For the last 7 or 8 years, you could go in his store, and this was a pretty big store, and if there was one person in there, any time of day, that was susrprising. Occassionally, 2 or 3, but thats it. Never had a sale of any kind, no specials, not even when the Manufacturers were having promotions. This big LGS has exactly 2 salesman, when you walk in, they dont even bother to get up and help, or even ask if your looking for anything, when you ask a question, they are uninformed and act like they could care less. Well, thats not how you stay in business. And you find this all over.

Contrast that with one of our other stores. He is 1/4th the size of the other store, has a bigger selection of new firearms and sells them for exactly MSRP, no one would normally buy a gun (Or anything else) at MSRP, but he sells a lot of them. Kimbers, Colts, Paras, Remington, Wnchester and everything else. Reason, he offers a service. He has layaway, his policy is "10% down and pay off in three months BUT, we really dont care how long it takes you to pay it off as long as you come in every month and put something on it, even $10 to show you still want the gun". He wont deal on a new gun either, but he sells a LOT of them. He does trade ins and buys used guns, he has a wall with a ton of used guns, and he will deal on them, he has every type of gun, used, that you can name, and they are cheap. Not only that, you dont have to ask to see them, he allows his customers to walk behind the counter where the used guns are and pick up and look at what they want. He carries a wide selection of ammo, the prices are usually higher on name brand than the big box stores, but again, he sells a lot of it, because he also carries some generic ammo, $9 for a loose 50 round box of .38 Spl. Not the best stuff on the planet, but it shoots, and you can get plenty of it in multipile calibers cheap to go to the range. That brings customers in, Ill go in there, buy 6 or 7 boxes of the cheap stuff and walk out with that and more expensive Wolf Match, Remington, or some other name brand ammo. Thats how you get customers in the store, and when your already there, why waste time going to Walmart or Academy, when the good stuff is already right in front of you? He carries all sorts of parts and accesorries, he carries a lot of hard to get stuff that doesnt move fast, but, it gets customers in his store, because no one else carries it and what happens, they buy other stuff, because its convenient. There are at least six salesman at his gun counters, every one of them knows their business inside and out, and you wont find any of them sitting around, they are there to help. Pul up in his parking lot, its full, and there are always, from opening to closing, 30 or 40 customers in the store. Thats how you stay in business.

Dont know how many times I have heard "Mom and pop has OK prices, but customer service sucks" and "Mom and pop has higher prices, but great customer service, they know their business and are there to help". Guess whos getting my money? The first one is an example of someone who wont be in business long, because they arent competing or arent interested in competing, and this is far too common. The second is an example of a small LGS that is going to be in business forever, because they are competing, not just with other mom and pops, but with the big box stores as well, and they are succesful, all too rare. Edited November 25, 2012 by TankerHC

[runco]

I think Walmart is a excellent example of capitalism. I personally wish they would held true to their beliefs when Sam was running the company (buy American), but I admit I too have endulged in Walmart goodies made on foreign shores. I will always buy the lowest price items that I need regardless if its Walmart or the local mom and pop. I have no loyality to a retailer, but I do have loyality to providing the most value to my family, shopping smart, not feeding the local mom/pops.

This reminds me, if my local gun store only knew how much money I spend at Walmart for ammo and on occasional a gun, he would be extremely offended. However, he thinks I am just a cheap stubborn old gizzard that comes in once a week, I kick a few tires, I do try to negotiate on a few goodies, we talk a little, but I never buy anything. If he is relying on me to feed his family, well....... they be starving. Edited November 25, 2012 by Runco

[Fourtyfive]

[quote name='TMF' timestamp='1353768233' post='850009']
Every time you buy a Colt at Walmart a kitten is murdered. Other than that, they are the same.
[/quote]

Is it always kittens , why not puppies ?

[McAllyn]

Walmart does what they do. They buy A LOT of something mainstream, and get a discount. They pass that on to me. I avail myself of that service whenever possible. Not because I consider my money all that "hard earned," but more because I want to consider my money "wisely spent." The $40 I save on my base model 10/22 will be spent at the LGS buying the optic/mount/custom stock/barrel/etc. that will turn the base model into something I couldn't have purchased over the counter at either store.

And if the LGS wants to cry in their beer that I didn't pay $36 for a 550 brick of Federal 22 so they can't feed their kids, well... I can't help them there. They should have rethought their marketing/sales plans.

Bottom line, Walmart will never offer the selection of Franklin Gun Shop or Guns and Leather. They can't, unless they want to turn the entire Sporting Goods section into a decent Sportsman section. They offer good prices on the mainstream items. It's bulk sales. I'll buy my Nighthawk from FGS or G&L, but I'll buy my Pardner Pump at Walmart. I'll buy my 22 bricks from Walmart, but I'll buy my Golden Sabres or Gold Dots from FGS or G&L. Eventually, everyone will get into my pocket one way or another.

[McAllyn]

[quote name='Threeeighty' timestamp='1353851999' post='850398']
Is it always kittens , why not puppies ?
[/quote]Because kittens are weak and lack the heart to survive in the world of retail.

[graycrait]

TankerHC, well said.

I had always heard through the rumor mill that Walmart, due to its huge contracts has special runs from the manufacturers just to fulfill Walmart bulk purchases. But I guess that flies in the face of common sense when you consider most cost effective operations utilize some form of just in time delivery to alleviate storage/excess inventory issues. Which I guess means that Walmart will experience shortages in certain models just like any other LGS when the manufacturer can't meet demand.

However, I am wondering and will have to look into how Walmat ends up with its guns. Do they really just get them from RSR, Ellett Bros., AccuSport, Lipsey's, etc., just like any local gun store? I am also wondering if Walmart gets a significant better deal than a LGS on their wholesale costs? I expect they do or they buy them annually at a contract price that maybe only Walmart/Big Box can afford or special pricing due to volume. I dunno and it doesn't directly effect me much as I buy so few new guns, mostly parts nowadays.

But in the end it is customer service that wins the day, and those hard to get items that the big box doesn't sell. I wish I could walk into a store that had all the Glock, Ruger MK I/II/III and 10/22 aftermarket all in one place! I suspect I would be the loan customer though depending on location of that store and then it would still have to have significant online sales.

Speaking of that how do those little online retailers stay in business when they are up against Brownells or MidwayUSA selling oftentimes the same thing? Are both the little and big online guys both doing drop shipments?

[runco]

I may be the odd one here, but customer service is by far not a top consideration for me. From buying autos, tvs, services, guns, etc., price is alone at the top! I have always been a do it my self kinda of person, so customer service is more at the bottom to me. I have had so many new car salesman push service, and I just laugh. That is why I will drive to Atlanta to save $500 on a new car purchsae. My time is cheap.

[hlb14]

Runco I feel the same way, for me its 90% about the price and 10% reputation. I'm generally skeptical when salesman start talking. I let the numbers do the talking. I started the thread to become a more knowledgeable consumer and feel that has been accomplished.

[I_Like_Pie]

[quote name='Runco' timestamp='1353860777' post='850440']
I may be the odd one here, but customer service is by far not a top consideration for me. From buying autos, tvs, services, guns, etc., price is alone at the top! I have always been a do it my self kinda of person, so customer service is more at the bottom to me. I have had so many new car salesman push service, and I just laugh. That is why I will drive to Atlanta to save $500 on a new car purchsae. My time is cheap.
[/quote]


Same here - If I could buy from a vending machine and eliminate the retail person altogether I would be happy. Totally unneeded by me.

Don't laugh off that mindset...That is why Amazon.com is the current superstar of the retail world right now.

[Paletiger13]

[quote name='I_Like_Pie' timestamp='1353772933' post='850043']
I heard that they microchip the guns, use RFID, and scan your face when you are purchasing the firearms. They put the data in a special database that is sold for marketing purposes. An extra copy is delivered to Feinstein and the Brady group so that when they come for the guns...they will know exactly where to go. Bloomberg machines serve double duty to track all owners in real time. The gun's receivers are made from grade BB chinese pot metal and the wood made from a 2x4 soaked in dioxin.

But other than that they are 100% like any other gun sent via a distributor.
[/quote]
If they chip the guns, no worries there. Look what happened in Fast and Furious lol

[StPatrick]

[quote name='graycrait' timestamp='1353856983' post='850419']

However, I am wondering and will have to look into how Walmart ends up with its guns. Do they really just get them from RSR, Ellett Bros., AccuSport, Lipsey's, etc., just like any local gun store? I am also wondering if Walmart gets a significant better deal than a LGS on their wholesale costs? I expect they do or they buy them annually at a contract price that maybe only Walmart/Big Box can afford or special pricing due to volume. I dunno and it doesn't directly effect me much as I buy so few new guns, mostly parts nowadays.

[/quote]

Many consumer products companies treat Wally (and other major chains) as a distributor since they have such a well-established internal logistics system. I don't know that the major firearms companies have that relationship with them, but it's certainly possible.

[MarkInNashville]

[quote name='I_Like_Pie' timestamp='1353772933' post='850043']
I heard that they microchip the guns, use RFID, and scan your face when you are purchasing the firearms. They put the data in a special database that is sold for marketing purposes. An extra copy is delivered to Feinstein and the Brady group so that when they come for the guns...they will know exactly where to go. Bloomberg machines serve double duty to track all owners in real time. The gun's receivers are made from grade BB chinese pot metal and the wood made from a 2x4 soaked in dioxin.

But other than that they are 100% like any other gun sent via a distributor.
[/quote] WTF??? Dioxin??? I heard it was hexavalent chromium, or maybe that was DDT.
.

[Guest TankerHC]

As mentioned, I have spoken with reps from several manufacturers concerning brands Walmart sells. They dont go through a middle man, straight from the manufacturer and they are the same guns you get anywhere else. BTW, also found that Walmart sells handguns in their Alaska stores and there are "[color=#ff0000]rumors[/color]" that Walmart is considering selling some in some of their lower 48 stores.

[swim615]

[quote name='TankerHC' timestamp='1354513352' post='854138']
As mentioned, I have spoken with reps from several manufacturers concerning brands Walmart sells. They dont go through a middle man, straight from the manufacturer and they are the same guns you get anywhere else. BTW, also found that Walmart sells handguns in their Alaska stores and there are "[color=#ff0000]rumors[/color]" that Walmart is considering selling some in some of their lower 48 stores.
[/quote]

I herd this handgun rumor about this time last year, but alas none yet. I hope they do start carrying handguns again. Nothing like a (save money live better) brick.

[Guest TankerHC]

[quote name='swim615' timestamp='1354536323' post='854162']
I herd this handgun rumor about this time last year, but alas none yet. I hope they do start carrying handguns again. Nothing like a (save money live better) brick.
[/quote]

Not handguns (Yet of course) but you do know you can go into a Walmart and Special Order a lot of different guns that they dont carry with a 50% down payment. They have an online Special Order Catalog for firearms. Pick out what you want, go in and order it, pay the 50% and thats it. Here is the catalog, its 123 pages long. Rifles, Shotguns and Muzzle Loader.

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/SpecialOrderGunCatalog.pdf

[runco]

[quote name='TankerHC' timestamp='1354551266' post='854243']
Not handguns (Yet of course) but you do know you can go into a Walmart and Special Order a lot of different guns that they dont carry with a 50% down payment. They have an online Special Order Catalog for firearms. Pick out what you want, go in and order it, pay the 50% and thats it. Here is the catalog, its 123 pages long. Rifles, Shotguns and Muzzle Loader.

[url="http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/SpecialOrderGunCatalog.pdf"]http://i.walmartimag...rGunCatalog.pdf[/url]
[/quote]

This is a 2010 catalog, has anyone seen a later version on line?

[Guest TankerHC]

I cant find a date but this is supposed to be the 2012 Catalog released last March.

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/SpecialOrderGunCatalog.pdf

[East_TN_Patriot]

[quote name='Hi Point Hooligan' timestamp='1353827713' post='850366']
Well I guess you guys are gonna ride me out on a rail when I say this.. and before I do I understand everyone works hard for their money and can do what they want with it. But I for one will NOT buy a firearm from wally world, nor will I buy ammo.. I support my LGS, why ??? Well when I visit I am treated like family, never spoken down to.. Always treated fairly. At wal-mart I am just another number.. Wal-mart is killing the little guys, and what are we going to do when the little guys are gone??? Do you think you will find a "Gunsmith" at wal-mart??? Nope...

Like I said it is your money, do what you will.. But please stop feeding the beast..
[/quote]

Also, Walmart survives on corporate welfare from local governments that give them huge tax breaks and infrastructure construction that is paid for with our tax dollars and not offered to the small businesses in a community. Walmart is a beast indeed. I wonder how many people who love Walmart and their low prices harp about paying taxes. Your less expensive Ruger 10/22 is subsidized by our tax dollars.

For example, one organization summarizes the issue like this:

[quote]A secret behind Wal-Mart’s rapid expansion in the United States has been its extensive use of public money. This includes [b]more than $1.2 billion[/b] in tax breaks, free land, infrastructure assistance, low-cost financing and outright grants from state and local governments around the country. In addition, taxpayers indirectly subsidize the company by paying the healthcare costs of Wal-Mart employees who don’t receive coverage on the job and instead turn to public programs such as Medicaid. 1[/quote]

Walmart is also notorious for not respecting individual property rights and using their influence to have private property seized under imminent domain. As another group notes:

[quote][...] if the city of Denver has its way, these small businesses will be evicted to make way for a Wal-Mart super-center. The city’s Urban Renewal Authority has threatened condemnation if the property owners refuse to sell and has offered Wal-Mart $10 million in public subsidies. 2[/quote]

I, for one, have no love for Walmart, I refuse to shop there, and I get quite upset when my wife shops there.

1) http://www.walmartsubsidywatch.org/index.html
2) http://reclaimdemocracy.org/independent_business_walmart_eminent_domain/

[runco]

I myself find Walmart to be the poster child of what a free economy is supposed to be. They use every tool in the tool bag to be a successful business. If Walmart employees do not like wages, benefits, or hours, then quit, do not complain. If manufacturing industry can use public money, then any industry should even if its retail. If citizens do not like the risk reward approach to tax breaks, then vote politicians out, or change the laws, do not blame the business leaders that seek out opportunities and who succeed. I do not believe Walmart has any authority to grab land, but government does, and again if people do not like the way government can grab land, for the betterment of the citizens, then change the laws.

As for my family, our monthly food budget runs around $1,500 a month or $18K/yr. I know for certain walmart gets that and a whole lot more from this family. I cannot say I am happy to give anyone $18K a year, but I strive to be a good steward of my family money, and I have no issue whatsoever using Walmart as my preferred retailer, and usually only retailer. I honestly do get upset if the wifee goes anywhere but Walmart for our routine household items. Where else can you go for tires, oil changes, guns, ammo, video games, DVDs, groceries, haircuts, prescriptions, flu shots, and seasonal items, all under one roof, and has the best price around. That is an outstanding business model. One happy walmart customer here

[Oh Shoot]

[quote name='TankerHC' timestamp='1354585187' post='854559']
I cant find a date but this is supposed to be the 2012 Catalog released last March.

[url="http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/SpecialOrderGunCatalog.pdf"]http://i.walmartimag...rGunCatalog.pdf[/url]
[/quote]

Says 2010 on it first page. Too big to notice, perhaps.

[Guest TankerHC]

[quote name='Oh Shoot' timestamp='1354597270' post='854674']
Says 2010 on it first page. Too big to notice, perhaps.
[/quote]

Dangit, yea, must have just been "too big".

[Dolomite_supafly]

They DO NOT buy their guns directly from the manufacturer, at least not most of them. They might get a few special runs but if it is a run of the mill firearm it comes from a distributor.

Go into any Walmart and ask to see their distributor catalog. They have a catalog with every single gun they have or can get in that catalog. It used to be Lipsey's up until a few years ago but I have not really dug into who is supplying Walmart these days but it most definitely is a distributor and not directly from the manufacturers.

Dolomite

[blacklxcoupe]

[quote name='Dolomite_supafly' timestamp='1354626831' post='854712']They DO NOT buy their guns directly from the manufacturer, at least not most of them. They might get a few special runs but if it is a run of the mill firearm it comes from a distributor.

Go into any Walmart and ask to see their distributor catalog. They have a catalog with every single gun they have or can get in that catalog. It used to be Lipsey's up until a few years ago but I have not really dug into who is supplying Walmart these days but it most definitely is a distributor and not directly from the manufacturers.

Dolomite[/quote]

I worked at Walmart in sporting goods until May of this year, our distributer is Sports South. Just about everything except the AR came from Sports South. The ARs were sent by home office, we never knew when or what brand was coming until ups/FedEx dropped it off. They were about the only guns that came from the manufacturer.

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