Where would you shoot.......head or body

[chances R]

Hydraulic Triangle. Wouldn't bother aiming anywhere else. 

 

 

EVER?.......Body armor?  Drug crazed?  Dedicated opponent?    Thanks for all the answers, but again, I repeat,  Just wondering on the legal implications of the head shot.  Plus with the price and scaricity of ammo, one shot to the head more economical......

[TMF]

Thanks for all the answers, but again, I repeat, Just wondering on the legal implications of the head shot. Plus with the price and scaricity of ammo, one shot to the head more economical......

None unless there is something to suggest you broke the law, such as the shot to his head being execution style as opposed to self defense. First, I don't think a detective with half a brain could assume that in a SD shoot you would have been cool and calm enough to make a well placed head shot. He'd probably chalk it up to luck. But if you find yourself in court, I suppose a prosecutor could say anything to demonize your actions, but that begs the question: why are you in court in the first place? But you could easily get an expert witness to testify that the chances of you making that well placed shot on purpose is slim.

Once again, there are some people here that have exchanged fire with bad guys before. I am one of them. I do not believe that someone who is shooting at a person for the first time (assuming by surprise since we're talking about an SD shoot) will have/take the time to make a well placed head shot, let alone achieve that against an attacker who is trying not to get shot. You will likely do what everyone else does... shoot center mass of the largest target being presented to you. Edited January 18, 2013 by TMF

[Guest carter]

a lot of special forces entry teams, mercs, use the straight to head shot method, thats more CQB than anything though...

[TMF]

[quote name="carter" post="888563" timestamp="1358488452"]a lot of special forces entry teams, mercs, use the straight to head shot method, thats more CQB than anything though...[/quote] Haha, only in video game world buddy.

[frankmako]

Head shots are easier said than done when it gets real. Center mass is always best.

 

plus one.  when it hits the fan you want to go for the big area of the body.

[ShamGlock]

Center mass, immediately. Head shot IF you can, as mentioned extremely difficult. One thing I haven't seen much talk of is shots to the pelvic girdle. If you separate the pelvic girdle the bad guy is going down. 

[mikegideon]

Center mass, immediately. Head shot IF you can, as mentioned extremely difficult. One thing I haven't seen much talk of is shots to the pelvic girdle. If you separate the pelvic girdle the bad guy is going down. 

 

Or the pelvic jewells. That will ball 'em up to where they'll fit in the trunk of your Toyota. :)

[Danger Rane]

The question is more for a legal discussion, you know, excessive force vs. stop the attack. I have had considerable training from the holster for head box shots. The majority of my shots with IDPA will also be head shots. Just wanted to see what the general feeling was.

 

My limited understanding of self defense laws would lead me to believe that if I am in a situation that justifies me shooting someone with the intent to stop the attack it would not matter if I had specifically targeted the head to do so. However if you dump an entire 30 round mag into one intruder it will probably raise some eyebrows.

[tnhawk]

2 in the chest, 1 to the head - reapply as needed.

[Guest ab28]

IMO:

Coat or no coat:

With 9mm: Two to the Chest, One to the Head:

Two in the chest is (115 grains times 2 equals) 230 grains - as much as a .45 cal bullet.
He doesn't move near as quick with Two in the chest, so it makes the One in the head a little easier.


With .45 cal: Two to the Chest, One to the Head.

One in the chest is 230 grains.
They tend to lie on their backs after the first One in the chest.
Two in the chest is (230 grains times 2 equals) 460 grains - as much as a Civil War Minie' Ball.
Two in the chest is almost overkill.
Maybe shouldn't do One in the head if he's no longer twitching.

Repeat as necessary.

IMO.

Not really, hollowpoints in both calibers hit with pretty close to the same amount of force. It isn't just the weight of the bullet, it is its speed as well. Velocity is why rifle bullets are so devastating. 

[knoxrocks222]

Mag dump torso (14 rounds .40 pdx1)...pull spair mag out of pocket...reload...get to safety.

Always carry a spair mag, mine is a G22 mag full of pdx1 Edited March 4, 2013 by knoxrocks222

[TrickyNicky]

Center mass, immediately. Head shot IF you can, as mentioned extremely difficult. One thing I haven't seen much talk of is shots to the pelvic girdle. If you separate the pelvic girdle the bad guy is going down.

That's what I meant by a hip shot. I remember reading an article in I think Police Magazine where a female officer was taken by surprise by a knife wielding assailant. She drew as he closed ground but did not have the time to present the gun to a center mass target as he was already upon her, so as she moved back she dire a lower shot that shattered the perps pelvis and it turned out that was the right shot. He crumpled like a house of cards feet away from her. It is entirely possible that a "correct" COM shot may have ended up with him continuing his assault while he bled out.

Having the lower structure of his body taken out there was no way for him to remain upright.

[TMF]

That's what I meant by a hip shot. I remember reading an article in I think Police Magazine where a female officer was taken by surprise by a knife wielding assailant. She drew as he closed ground but did not have the time to present the gun to a center mass target as he was already upon her, so as she moved back she dire a lower shot that shattered the perps pelvis and it turned out that was the right shot. He crumpled like a house of cards feet away from her. It is entirely possible that a "correct" COM shot may have ended up with him continuing his assault while he bled out.
Having the lower structure of his body taken out there was no way for him to remain upright.

Yep, also a valid area to disable an individual, just not as easy to hit on a moving target. Really, a moving target in general is difficult to hit, especially when that target is trying not to get shot and you're in the process of getting an adrenaline spike amongst other factors that are going to screw with your accuracy; it won't be like standing on the 7m line at the range shooting at a perfect stationary silhouette.

This is why I don't see why folks get so wrapped around the axle on this. In the heat of the moment you're going to aim at the easiest thing to hit. You likely won't have time to pick and choose your shot placement. Center mass of what you have presented to you is using the law of averages; what do I have the best chance of hitting in the fraction of a second I have to make this shot. If the first round doesn't stop an attacker you should have more rounds available. Once again, the reason why in training you need to always have follow up shots and not be in the habit of firing one round at a time. Minimum two rounds, reality as many rounds as it takes.

[TrickyNicky]

Agreed, at the end of the day you'll most likely not have much time to try to pick your shot, just giving a little food for thought that there is no reason to shoot high when there are so many areas center or lower that should stop most any threat.

[Old Man]

One of the things that I seen in police shootings is that if the person has a weapon, and you are looking at that weapon, you will shoot where you are looking.  Try to train yourself to look where you want to shoot.  Having been in a couple of shootings, I would shoot center mass until I see that it is not effective.

[LowBb]

Boys I'm dumping 20 rounds where ever they go!!!!! Probably a little of both if someone is in my house. Then prob doing it again a few more times. Edited March 7, 2013 by LowBb

[PoofNoEyeBrows]

Given that your responsible for that bullet even if it hits the intended target and keeps going or not, and the fact that a typical head is much smaller then the chest / torso region I would ask why? I can understand wanting the fastest possible resolution in a situation where one is forced to draw on a target, but I would say the best / safest course of response would be center mass and multiple shots. If your worried about penetration possibly look at the type of ammunition or caliber you are using for your carry.

[TNMP40]

Double tap the body and then go for the head.  If you have extra magazines fire till your empty and reload.  Assuming your life is in danger.

[Kopis]

With the lack of harsh winters in TN and the newer polymer tipped rounds that won't clog (Hornady home defense) I say stay center mast.

Thankfully I've never been in a situation but with all the adrenaline, possible low light, drawing your weapon etc i don't think you'll have time to decide.

[homeagain]

Center mass.  Likely reaction would be low center mass (hopefully) and work up to high center mass as that's how I train.  First five rounds are loaded with Glasers followed by Golden Sabre (.45), extra mag Golden Sabre.  Would create distance and continue til threat stops (that's the 'plan' anyway).  Then speed dial my attorney.

[Smith]

If I'm in a movie .... head shot at 50 yrds as I dive through the air while yelling CONTACT! In reality, anywhere that I can and it stops the threat.

[TripleDigitRide]

If I'm in a movie .... head shot at 50 yrds as I dive through the air while yelling CONTACT! In reality, anywhere that I can and it stops the threat.

:ph34r:

[subsonic]

We had a family friend who was Secret Service. Despite their depth of training and accuracy and high probability of pulling off head shots, they were told that if the perp has a firearm and it was even remotely pointed at them, a headshot could cause a neurological flinch from the target and a subsequent round being fired in their direction. Always go for center mass first.

[TNFF319]

The question is more for a legal discussion, you know, excessive force vs. stop the attack. I have had considerable training from the holster for head box shots. The majority of my shots with IDPA will also be head shots. Just wanted to see what the general feeling was.

Find a cop or soldier who has had extensive training and has been in a shoot out. Ask how much thought went into it. You go into survival mode and fall back on training. You shoot for the main target ie. center mass. As stated, you miss that head shot and your target can shot you and you now have a stray round.

[Guest ancient_serpent]

I shoot high center of mass. Basically the triangle formed by the "nipple, nipple, base of neck." 

Any failure or lack of reaction, t zone, neural motor strip or C1-C3 vertebrae. 

 

Given a partially concealed subject, center of mass of the body part showing. 

Edited April 8, 2013 by ancient_serpent