AR Pistol

[Defender]

Notice to Moderators: This is NOT a lame attempt to circumvent the Benefactor rules. I'm an honorable man, and abide by the rules. With my daughters birthday and Christmas coming up, I'm literally months away from even trying to make a purchase, and am not even sure yet that I will be then.

I have been thinking a lot lately about an AR pistol. I've looked at the Keltec PLR-16 and similar styles, as well as the ones that have the buffer tubes. If one could only have one AR, I'm kinda thinking that a pistol with the tube might be the way to go. I know that distance and possible accuracy after a certain distance would decrease, but Ive got other rifles for distance shooting and just kinda like the size of the pistols. The tube could be used as a makeshift stock if needed and the overall size might help with concealability if that ever became an issue. I only have one AR at present. I'm interested in hearing others thoughts on this.

Thanks for any input! Edited November 19, 2012 by Dolomite_supafly

[Steelharp]

I've had two PLR's. It's surprising, the amount of recoil compared to a conventional AR. However, after gathering info here about the suffering of the ballistics to the .223 round by that short of a barrel... I opted to sell them. You might want to consider that.

[RichardR]

I like shorty's (pistols & SBR's), the only problem I have encountered with the ones I have owned is how loud they can, and when I say loud I mean really, really loud, the muzzle blast out of the 5.56 versions can be felt from several shooting stations away & multiple layers of hearing protection is recommended/required to avoid any potential hearing loss.

Keep in mind that trying to suppress any 5.56 barrel shorter than 12" will quickly ruin an expensive can, there is simply still too much pressure out of the short barrels.

As far as accuracy & power, I have found that if I keep it within 100 yards or so they are just as accurate as their larger brethern, power is still good enough for social work, albiet velocity/energy is diminished the farther out you go.

There are also two basic ways to properly hold the buffer tube versions, the first is the same way you would hold a non tubed version, that is by pushing the weapon out creating tension with a sling in order to stabilize the weapon enough to sight down the sights.

The second is for a tubed version only, which is to "shoulder" the buffer tube and tuck yourself down behind the weapon in order to sight down the sights, a good foam buffer tube cover is required or this will be rather uncomfortable for any period of time.

Because of their size they are very handy, and are great bases for making an SBR, but as mentioned above there are some trade offs, I do not have any experience with any other chamberings other than 5.56 so I am afraid I cannot really give much input on those.

[RichardR]

[quote name='Steelharp' timestamp='1353243525' post='847525']
I've had two PLR's. It's surprising, the amount of recoil compared to a conventional AR. However, after gathering info here about the suffering of the ballistics to the .223 round by that short of a barrel... I opted to sell them. You might want to consider that.
[/quote]

Yup the shorter you go, the more velocity & energy you give up.

However, even out of a really short 7" barrel you are still looking at .357 magnumish levels of energy, which is greatly diminished no doubt but it is still an extremely useable amount.

[Oh Shoot]

[quote name='barewoolf' timestamp='1353241513' post='847519']
.... If one could only have one AR, I'm kinda thinking that a pistol with the tube might be the way to go. [/quote]

Well, first, I simply don't see not having an AR rifle at all, just to have an AR pistol.

However, if you start with an AR pistol you can keep a rifle upper and go back and forth, maximizing use of the lower, so in the sense of a convertible "kit" firearm it has been a pretty attractive idea to me, so been thinking about doing exactly that for a while.

But really, have just about come to conclusion that with a 6 or 7" (barrel which I would prefer to keep it closer to real pistol) the anemic performance of the round with that length, the noise, and extra length needed for the conventional length buffer tube just aren't worth it to have something kewl.

Makes a bit more sense if I wanted to maybe go 10" barrel and later make it SBR too, but that's another genre that just doesn't much appeal to me for whatever reason. Or do it with another caliber, which I don't really wanna jump into either at this point.

So all in all, I'm currently thinking this is one of those things I could do but likely won't. As far as having a "battle caliber" pistol only, I've come to understand the ergonomic attraction of the PLR-16 or the Drago, with the latter easily becoming SBR too for those wanting to go that route.

- OS Edited November 18, 2012 by OhShoot

[Defender]

IF I decide to get an AR pistol, I'm leaning towards one with a buffer tube and a 10.5 inch barrel.

[Oh Shoot]

[quote name='barewoolf' timestamp='1353267782' post='847729']
IF I decide to get an AR pistol, I'm leaning towards one with a buffer tube and a 10.5 inch barrel.
[/quote]

Which to me only makes sense if you either also have a complete AR rifle or a complete AR upper to quickly change the pistol into a rifle.

Point being IMHO, if one is indeed gonna do 5.56/.223 at all, one should at least have a long distance capable rifle somewhere in the mix, which to me indicates 14-20" barrel.

- OS Edited November 18, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Yeh, try to hold on to your rifle. The pistols are fun. 6.8 isn't much different than 5.56, just a little more kick.
Got both, but will stay mostly with the 6.8.

[Jonnin]

I have a plr 16. Its awesome for what it is. It cannot be trusted with steel ammo. Its accurate to 200 yards. Its a little heavy to hold but fun to use bench rested. A forend grip would be perfect but that is illegal .... so you are left holding the 30 round mag as a grip which is a little awkward but "OK". I have not had any trouble out of mine, and for the price, can't beat it.

[Oh Shoot]

[quote name='Jonnin' timestamp='1353271412' post='847751']
I have a plr 16. Its awesome for what it is. It cannot be trusted with steel ammo. Its accurate to 200 yards. Its a little heavy to hold but fun to use bench rested. A forend grip would be perfect but that is illegal .... so you are left holding the 30 round mag as a grip which is a little awkward but "OK". I have not had any trouble out of mine, and for the price, can't beat it.
[/quote]

I'm sue I'd opt for the fore grip:

[img]http://www.keltecweapons.com/uploaded_files/ourguns/gallery/b_e66155043969fb004969f195cfa9208bCIMG3630.jpg[/img]

- OS Edited November 18, 2012 by OhShoot

[Jonnin]

[quote name='OhShoot' timestamp='1353271598' post='847752']
I'm sue I'd opt for the fore grip:

[img]http://www.keltecweapons.com/uploaded_files/ourguns/gallery/b_e66155043969fb004969f195cfa9208bCIMG3630.jpg[/img]

- OS
[/quote]

I have it, but you can't really hold it by that easily. I find the mag easier to deal with. And it adds a fair chunk of forward weight that the gun does not need. I took mine back off. Edited November 18, 2012 by Jonnin

[Guest Triggerhappyzach]

You dont really have to "shoulder" the buffer tube, you can "cheek" it. You can rest it on your cheek and its just as steady as having a stock against your shoulder (albeit, mine was a 7.5" pistol so it was pretty light), and very comfortable to boot. Secondly, Magpul AFGs are classified as a "handstop" by the ATF and not a "vertical grip". Thus, foregrip problem solved.

[Oh Shoot]

[quote name='Jonnin' timestamp='1353273128' post='847764']
I have it, but you can't really hold it by that easily. I find the mag easier to deal with. And it adds a fair chunk of forward weight that the gun does not need. I took mine back off.
[/quote]

Maybe one of these too, then?

[img]http://www.spartanimports.com/store/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/466b9e714b23692a0b4c16dbf78d415d.jpg[/img]

If I get a gimmick gun, I want all the other gimmicks I can find.

- OS

Edited November 18, 2012 by OhShoot

[TNcitizen22]

In concept, I love AR pistols. My only problem with it is while it would be an excellent CQC weapon, if I did not have hearing protection, I would be totally disoriented after a couple shots. I tried one without hearing protection once and instantly ruled that I would never own one because of that. My .02

[Steelharp]

[quote name='TNcitizen22' timestamp='1353280789' post='847828']
In concept, I love AR pistols. My only problem with it is while it would be an excellent CQC weapon, if I did not have hearing protection, I would be totally disoriented after a couple shots. I tried one without hearing protection once and instantly ruled that I would never own one because of that. My .02
[/quote]

Yeah; I did that, too. After 10 minutes, the ringing had subsided just enough that I could hear garbled sounds along with seeing lips move...

[TNcitizen22]

Not to mention what I sure would be an absolutely blinding flash at night.

[Lumber_Jack]

[quote name='TNcitizen22' timestamp='1353285318' post='847859']Not to mention what I sure would be an absolutely blinding flash at night.[/quote]

Yeah, a Noveske KX3 or other quality flash suppressor can kill that, but will still be deafening without ear pro. Edited November 19, 2012 by Lumber_Jack

[Guest 6.8 AR]

The pig is what both of mine have. They help with noise a little, also.

[strickj]

[quote name='Triggerhappyzach' timestamp='1353273129' post='847765']
You dont really have to "shoulder" the buffer tube, you can "cheek" it. You can rest it on your cheek and its just as steady as having a stock against your shoulder (albeit, mine was a 7.5" pistol so it was pretty light), and very comfortable to boot.
[/quote]
Odd.

Hows the accuracy shooting one that way? Sights are designed to be close to your face. Seems that would really kill the accuracy.


[quote name='OhShoot' timestamp='1353266007' post='847714']
Well, first, I simply don't see not having an AR rifle at all, just to have an AR pistol.

However, if you start with an AR pistol you can keep a rifle upper and go back and forth, maximizing use of the lower, so in the sense of a convertible "kit" firearm it has been a pretty attractive idea to me, so been thinking about doing exactly that for a while.

[/quote]

Or just fork out another cnote for a whole rifle.

Edited November 19, 2012 by strickj

[Guest Triggerhappyzach]

I thought with the buffer tube on my shoulder the sights are way too close, and i had to duck my head down too far. With the tube on your cheek, its just like the cheekweld of a stock resting on your cheek, just slide the gun closer/farther away so your sights line up comfortably.
@OhShoot- completely legal! See ATF letter here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=381738

[Guest Aces&8s]

I use the cheek-weld on the tube as well on my 7.5" pistol, and it does fine. Comfortable, no recoil, really, and it puts the open sight in just the right spot. Rather than the Pig, I went with the Levang linear comp, and does help a lot with the flash and the noise... still loud as heck, but man is it a lot of fun to shoot!

Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk 2

[Jonnin]

The main reason I bought the thing was because it is technically legal to carry on your permit. Hopefully I never need to haul something like that around but you never know. If I decide to haul it around regularly, for example people rioting up and down my street, I will be sure to wear some headphones...

[RichardR]

Yea AR pistols & SBR's are definately "a blast" to shoot that is for sure, probably one of the most just for fun guns out there except ones with a happy switch on them.

You are more than welcome to put some rounds through one of mine to see how you like them before decideing to buy/trade/build yourself one.

[Defender]

[quote name='RichardR' timestamp='1353332552' post='848100']
Yea AR pistols & SBR's are definately "a blast" to shoot that is for sure, probably one of the most just for fun guns out there except ones with a happy switch on them.

You are more than welcome to put some rounds through one of mine to see how you like them before decideing to buy/trade/build yourself one.
[/quote]

THANK YOU

[RichardR]

[quote name='Jonnin' timestamp='1353331461' post='848094']
The main reason I bought the thing was because it is technically legal to carry on your permit. Hopefully I never need to haul something like that around but you never know. If I decide to haul it around regularly, for example people rioting up and down my street, I will be sure to wear some headphones...
[/quote]

Yep AR pistols are considered "handguns" so your good to go, I usually wear a pair of foam/rubber plugs as well as electronic muffs while shooting shorty's & even so my ears usually still ring a little for a couple of hours, but my ear to ear grin usually lasts a couple of days.