Secession petition

[Guest The Dude]

[quote name='zgunbear' timestamp='1352775721' post='844634']
How many lists are we putting ourselves on by sigining? Do we become patriots or traitors? Are we now enemies of the state by virtue of signing the petition?
I feel inmy soul that the crossing of the Rubicon noment is not far away.

Will we stand?
[/quote]

We're gun owners. We're already deemed an enemy of the state.

[mikegideon]

[quote name='The Dude' timestamp='1352776471' post='844642']
We're gun owners. We're already deemed an enemy of the state.
[/quote]

Not sure about that. They have bigger problems than us.

[enfield]

Some day we'll be their biggest problem, and they're well aware of that fact.

[mikegideon]

[quote name='enfield' timestamp='1352778317' post='844654']
Some day we'll be their biggest problem, and they're well aware of that fact.
[/quote]

I think they're well aware of that possibility. I also think they're not dumb enough to trigger it.

[enfield]

And I think they ARE dumb, and arrogant, enough to open the box.

[mikegideon]

[quote name='enfield' timestamp='1352778984' post='844663']
And I think they ARE dumb, and arrogant, enough to open the box.
[/quote]

Well... gonna be interesting

[TNcitizen22]

Perhaps I am out of touch, or just unwilling to accept the 'truth'. I think anyone who genuinely believes this half-assed attempt at a succession is a good idea is freaking out of their mind. You have no idea the kind of hell that would be brought upon us (read: YOU) in a matter of days. It would not be fun, revolutionary, or whatever idealistic viewpoint you have on it. Anyone who signs this has never set foot into a third world country, and you should if you are foolish enough to want this. If you did, you wouldn't dream of such a stupid idea.

[Spots]

[quote name='TNcitizen22' timestamp='1352779738' post='844672']
Perhaps I am out of touch, or just unwilling to accept the 'truth'. I think anyone who genuinely believes this half-assed attempt at a succession is a good idea is freaking out of their mind. You have no idea the kind of hell that would be brought upon us (read: YOU) in a matter of days. It would not be fun, revolutionary, or whatever idealistic viewpoint you have on it. Anyone who signs this has never set foot into a third world country, and you should if you are foolish enough to want this. If you did, you wouldn't dream of such a stupid idea.
[/quote]

This country needs a revolution. And I guess I'm the idiot thats been in a third world country and in a combat zone and still signed. And as someone who has served for this country, and sees that it is coming to a crossroad. I'd rather die for a state I believed in than live in a country I am quickly beginning to not believe in. Don't take this the wrong way, I know how blessed this country has been, but I am disgusted with where we are headed and we are headed there quickly. Edited November 13, 2012 by Spots

[Guest HvyMtl]

A response from a low level beaurocrat? Woo.

And again, you do not like it here, leave. Go find someplace better than the U.S. You are not patriotic. You are sore losers.

[TNcitizen22]

[quote name='Spots' timestamp='1352780103' post='844677']
This country needs a revolution. And I guess I'm the idiot thats been in a third world country and in a combat zone and still signed.
[/quote]

You are. Our governing body has far more power than any state, handful of states, or legions of people. The only thing a succession would accomplish is massive amounts of death and chaos.

I am all for changing the way our country works, but this is simply not the way to do it.

Regardless, this whole thing is a futile argument anyways, as the Feds simply do not care about this petition.

[monkeylizard]

To quote our illustrious Sec. of Sate:

[quote]HILLARY APRIL 28, 2003: I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic, and we should stand up and say, "WE ARE AMERICANS AND WE HAVE A RIGHT TO DEBATE AND DISAGREE WITH ANY ADMINISTRATION!"[/quote]

It's one of the few things she ever said that I agree with. Of course, she meant it's patriotic to disagree with the Bush administration, not really [i]any[/i] administration, but I digress.

Not liking it here, or disagreeing with with the path our elected officials are taking is not being a sore loser. It's who we are and it's what keeps us free. It keeps us from swinging left into totalitarian communism or right into totalitarian fascism. When that dissenting voice on either side gets squashed we are all lesser for it. Even, or perhaps especially, when it's a voice we disagree with.

I don't think secession is likely path, or even a good path. It's a system that works if we get people in who can and will do their jobs as they're supposed to. I've about given up on a President from either party to have the will, or even the desire to reign in federal power. It's up to Congress and the state legislatures. They don't have to secede to give Washington the finger, but it;s going to be painful if they ever do. We're all pretty dependent on the federal dole, whether we know it or not. Edited November 13, 2012 by monkeylizard

[mikegideon]

[quote name='TNcitizen22' timestamp='1352781448' post='844687']
You are. Our governing body has far more power than any state, handful of states, or legions of people. The only thing a succession would accomplish is massive amounts of death and chaos.

I am all for changing the way our country works, but this is simply not the way to do it.

Regardless, this whole thing is a futile argument anyways, as the Feds simply do not care about this petition.
[/quote]

It's not big enough to care about. You need a lot bigger numbers

[Dolomite_supafly]

As much as I hate what the country is becoming we are far from being a third world ####hole. And if we did secede the state would become a third world ####hole in a matter of days. The federal government would not invade us or try to beat us into submission. They would lock our border down and not allow anything in or out. Then they would just starve us into submission and then we would be begging to go back to the way it was before. And guess what, we will be way worse off that what we are now.

We cannot support our own population without the help of the other states and if we secede the feds will not allow interstate commerce with us any more. And if you think you will be going to work as usual it will be kind of hard to do that without any gas because it will no longer be imported. Your job won't matter anyway because companies here will go out of business when they cannot sell their items out of state or get supplies in from out of state. We would ALL loose our jobs because no other state still under federal control would be allowed to do business with us.

Look at all the food that is imported into the state from other states as well as other countries. Those food items will be gone in days and all food normally imported will stop at the border. So all of you wanting to secede are willing to risk your own family starving?

Then there is the medicine that will stop at the border. How many here are diabetic or have loved ones that are? They will be dead in months if they stocked up. But realistically they would probably starve before then because if they are not stockpiling medicine they do not have food stockpiled.

This goes right along with those who are planning to bug out to the hills. They, and those wanting to secede, have not thought out the long term ramifications of it.

I do not want to secede for a few reasons. First is everything I mentioned above. But also if we secede we no longer have a voice and we will have zero chance of effecting change in the federal government. If you want things to change write letters, make calls and send emails to your representative. How many here did that before the election or any time they disagree with something their representative does? I know I have wrote trying to influence their decisions. It is not too late. We will have the most important elections in the next few years. If we loose the majority in congress, which we probably will unless something is done, the democrats will forever change this nation.

I said it before and I will say it again. Be careful what you wish for, you might actually get it.

If you are truly patriotic to this country you should not be wanting to leave it but fight for it.

Dolomite

[mikegideon]

It will be OK. As OK as it gets, anyway.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

We might get lots more foreign aid than we now receive as "federal welfare". Otherwise we might vote against the USA in the U.N., or make treaties with other major powers. Skillfully played, we could get massive foreign aid from USSR, China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, along with massive foreign aid from USA, all trying to curry our favor and friendship. And no more federal income taxes. At the same time, the social security checks would most likely keep getting sent to retirees. If a retiree can move to mexico, canada or the philippines and still receive social security checks, dunno on what grounds they could refuse to pay them to retirees living in the foreign nation of TN.

If all of TN coal reserves were converted to petroleum-equivalents, coal to liquids, we have vastly more energy reserves than Saudi Arabia. Freed from the EPA, we could do coal-to-liquids and export to the USA. Or build lots of coal electric plants and sell power to the USA, which the USA will desperately need after their coal plants have been shut down and they are suffering along on solar panels and windmills. Or alternately, perhaps the USA would be so afeared of pollution and global warming that they would pay us handsomely to leave the coal in the ground!

[DaveTN]

[quote name='cardcutter' timestamp='1352747674' post='844373']
My point is simply that it would send a message if 26x25000 (650000) people showed their dissatisfaction.
[/quote]
Last Tuesday 59 MILLION people got off their azz and went to a polling place to show their dissatisfaction. They showed ID and signed their real names with their real addresses. It made no difference.

What makes you think 650K people doing nothing more than clicking on a web link would send any kind of a message or that anyone would care?

There isn’t going to be any secession by any state. Our government is not going to be overthrown by any radical forces because it is protected by Patriots. The only way you are going to change our government is at the polling place.
Many of the middle class is too busy or too indifferent to vote. The poor and those living off the government are voting and they are voting for bigger monthly checks and free healthcare.

Internet petitions are a joke.

[UncleJak]

If people were that upset over the election, they should have gotten more people involved in the voting process. The people have spoken and Barako won. Try again in 4 years.

[TMF]

[quote name='enfield' timestamp='1352778984' post='844663']And I think they ARE dumb, and arrogant, enough to open the box.[/quote]

Who is "they"?

[enfield]

[quote]Regardless, this whole thing is a futile argument anyways, as the Feds simply do not care about this petition.[/quote]

The government is REQUIRED to [s]care about[/s] receive the petitions - it's in the Constitution. Read it some time.

By the way, it's SEcession, not SUCcession. Edited November 13, 2012 by enfield

[enfield]

[quote name='TMF' timestamp='1352814860' post='844772']
Who is "they"?
[/quote]

The Government. Who else are we talking about here?

[JayC]

[quote name='The Dude' timestamp='1352743580' post='844351']
Plus he totally ignored the 10th Amendment.
[/quote]

Yeah, 10th Amendment

Boy, how we gloss over history of our first despot

How about sending troops into New York to fire on protesters? Or having a US Congressman arrested and exiled from the country for speaking out against the war? Or shutting down a number of newspapers who were against the war? Or threatening a Priest with arrest over a prayer?

The least of Lincoln infractions were disregarding the 10th Amendment.

[JayC]

[quote name='Clod Stomper' timestamp='1352746759' post='844363']
Winning a war does not determine rights vs. non-rights. If you beat me up and take my lunch money, did you determine that I had no right to that money?

As far as Texas secession, I'm not so sure that they need a petition. I'll have to look into it further, but wasn't a right of secession a part of their treaty with the US when they joined the union? Not sure, but I'm curious.
[/quote]

That is an urban myth, the treaty allows them to dived into a total of 5 states without permission from Congress. Remember Texas attempted to secede from the Union with the rest of the South during the civil war.

[BryanP]

[quote name='enfield' timestamp='1352816789' post='844782']
The government is REQUIRED to care about the petitions - it's in the Constitution. Read it some time.
[/quote]

The rights outlined in the Constitution allow the people to petition their government for redress of grievances without fear or reprisal. It doesn't mean they actually have to do anything about your petition.

[TMF]

[quote name='enfield' timestamp='1352816885' post='844783']

The Government. Who else are we talking about here?[/quote]

Hmmm, like, the whole government? I guess when I was in the military I was part of the government and was never filled in on any vast conspiracy. Maybe I just wasn't high up enough. I'll send a text to my buddies at the Pentagon and see if they know anything about it.

Maybe you meant our elected officials. In that case I'll give a call to a friend of mine who served as a state representative in Florida. He would have to know something about this.

Or maybe it's a sneaky shadow government. That would make more sense I guess. I don't know anyone on the "Smoky Room, Hand Wringing Panel", but I guess that's why they're so sneaky.

[enfield]

[quote name='BryanP' timestamp='1352817735' post='844792']
The rights outlined in the Constitution allow the people to petition their government for redress of grievances without fear or reprisal. It doesn't mean they actually have to do anything about your petition.
[/quote]

Exacty right. But no response IS a response.