Secession petition

[Chucktshoes]

[quote name='Lester Weevils' timestamp='1354232274' post='852595']I thought signing a petition was part of the democratic process? Mebbe they should revoke clearances and fire people who sign ballot petitions for the "wrong candidate" as well? Signed a ballot petition for an R or L? Immediate dishonorable discharge![/quote]
They can't help themselves. Statists gonna state.

[seez52]

[quote name='mcurrier' timestamp='1354138075' post='852073']
A brilliant piece by Walter E. Williams -


[b] Parting Company[/b]


http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/2012/11/28/williams-parting-company/?subscriber=1
[/quote]


Never better stated.
Our southern ancestors were patriots not traitors, just as their ancestors a generation before. I hate to think we're gonna need a do over.

[TMF]

[quote name='Lester Weevils' timestamp='1354232274' post='852595']I thought signing a petition was part of the democratic process? Mebbe they should revoke clearances and fire people who sign ballot petitions for the "wrong candidate" as well? Signed a ballot petition for an R or L? Immediate dishonorable discharge![/quote]

When it comes to clearances it is a different story, and is that way for a reason. Folks have a right to free speech and to sign petitions asking for the dissolution of our nation as it stands, but there is no Constitutional right to a security clearance. There are many, many things that can get a clearance pulled. This rides the edge of one of those things.

[Guest fauklin]

[quote name='Dolomite_supafly' timestamp='1354231073' post='852585']
I agree. They should loose their clearances as well as their job if they hold a government job. If they signed it as a military member then they should be booted out under dishonorable conditions.

If you signed the petition then, to me, you have denounced your willingness to remain a citizen of the United States. If you think the US is so bad that you feel you need to leave through secession then you probably need to go ahead and leave the country anyways. After all you have given up on the democratic process that we would have cheered had your chosen candidate won.

Dolomite
[/quote]
First off, we don't live in a democracy. Secondly, secession is the very principle that our country was founded on. Thirdly, anyone who thinks this is only about who won the election, they don't understand the reason for the petitions in the first place. It wasn't so much about who got elected as much as it's about the people knowing what his policies are and still reelecting him. That tells me it's likely that a federal government that actually represents my positions might never exist again. In that situation, PEACEFUL secession is the perfect solution in my mind. Conservative people shouldn't be forced to ride down a path they don't wanna go down.
ANYONE who says we petition signers are traitors doesn't know anything about how our country was founded and I couldn't care less what such people think about me. Edited November 30, 2012 by fauklin

[Caster]

[quote name='fauklin' timestamp='1354305974' post='852987']

ANYONE who says we petition signers are traitors doesn't know anything about how our country was founded and I couldn't care less what such people think about me.
[/quote]

Depending on your point of view, every guy who signed the declaration of independence was a traitor.

The difference between terrorist and a hero/martyr isn't necessarily defined by the action, but by the guy writing the history book.

[Caster]

[quote name='greenego' timestamp='1353521452' post='849183']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQV_YKBvxbc[/media]
[/quote]

I understand this video was meant as a comedy BUT I believe it's a fair representation of the current regime's view of the idea as well as the sentiment of those to the far north. I'd like to see this guy bring his fat aßß to San Antonio and publicly spout the same message. He'd get his paper thin pizza and a stromboli forcibly inserted into his rectum. Edited November 30, 2012 by Caster

[Guest cardcutter]

My 7th great Grand father, Charles Butler, walked off a farm near New Bern NC back in April of 1776 to join the 2nd NC infantry. His son and his son's sons and their son' sons have fought in every war this nation has had until this one. My Father was WWII Navy. My uncles were in Korea, My brothers traded off tours in Vietnam. I am a Marine and a disabled Vet from my service in the Gulf. I signed the damn petition and I dare anyone to challenge my patriotism.

The petition is nothing more than a symbolic gesture show our dissatisfaction the nations leadership and to remind them of our history when dealing with despots. Nothing was ever going to come of it and we all knew it going. If not they should have.

If you do not believe Civil descent is American, then perhaps it is you sir who should be doing some insightful soul searching about what it means to be an American and a patriot.

[mcurrier]

[quote name='cardcutter' timestamp='1354309603' post='853021']
My 7th great Grand father, Charles Butler, walked off a farm near New Bern NC back in April of 1776 to join the 2nd NC infantry. His son and his son's sons and their son' sons have fought in every war this nation has had until this one. My Father was WWII Navy. My uncles were in Korea, My brothers traded off tours in Vietnam. I am a Marine and a disabled Vet from my service in the Gulf. I signed the damn petition and I dare anyone to challenge my patriotism.

The petition is nothing more than a symbolic gesture show our dissatisfaction the nations leadership and to remind them of our history when dealing with despots. Nothing was ever going to come of it and we all knew it going. If not they should have.

If you do not believe Civil descent is American, then perhaps it is you sir who should be doing some insightful soul searching about what it means to be an American and a patriot.
[/quote]

I am descendant of Henry Knox, Revolutionary War General and Secretary of War (not [i]Defense[/i]), one of Washington's top generals who captured the cannons at Fort Ticonderoga and brought them back across frozen Lake George. Knoxville, TN is named after him. I have always been fascinated with the founding of the United States of America and particularly the Revolutionary War and the Founding Fathers. My house is an 18th Century museum and tribute to America, Freedom, the Flag and all-things Colonial. I was a pre-law student in college with a major in History. This stuff has always been [u]very[/u] important to me since I was about 10 years old. That is where I am coming from in my view of America.

[Guest cardcutter]

"My house is an 18th Century museum and tribute to America, Freedom, the Flag and all-things Colonial."

If only I could. Edited November 30, 2012 by cardcutter

[Dolomite_supafly]

Ok, for those who are for seceding what will you be to the US after you secede? You will no longer be able to effect the change this nation needs. You will be begging to come back within months.

Those that are willing to give up on the country by seceding should never allowed any of the benefits of this country. As screwed up as our legislators are leaving the country will not help the country.

And just as a matter of fact if we, as a state, were to secede hundreds of thousands would starve. And for what? To say "we really showed them".

Dolomite

[Guest cardcutter]

Dolomite
You are trying to make an argument about an absolute when the petition was aout a gesture.The petitoin was only symbolism.
There will be no secession. There was never going to be one.

To try and inject hard facts and scenarios about it are futile.

BTW I can easily see the Torries of the colonial era saying the same thing.

"Ok, for those who are for seceding what will you be to the England after you secede? You will no longer be able to effect the change this nation needs. You will be begging to come back within months.

Those that are willing to give up on the country by seceding should never allowed any of the benefits of this country. As screwed up as our legislators are leaving the country will not help the country.

And just as a matter of fact if we, as a colony , were to secede thousands would starve. And for what? Edited November 30, 2012 by cardcutter

[RobertNashville]

[quote name='mcurrier' timestamp='1354138075' post='852073']
A brilliant piece by Walter E. Williams -


[b] Parting Company[/b]


[url="http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/2012/11/28/williams-parting-company/?subscriber=1"]http://www.gopusa.co...y/?subscriber=1[/url]
[/quote]I thoroughly enjoyed the article and, while my agreement doesn't mean anything I agree that from a Constitutional perspective; a sate does have the right to secede.

However, I would say that any actual attempt by a state today to do so today would turn out even less well for that stat than when it was attempted the last time. Even were such a move "successful" and peaceful, I think those who would propose it would be ignoring many, many realities of life today.. The Constitution may be (mostly) the same as the day it was ratified but society has changed in ways that our founders could never have imagined. All the individual states today are extremely dependent on other states for basic needs from food to pharmaceuticals to fuel and 10,000 other items any state existing without the other 49 is almost impossible and has been so for at least the last 100 years or so.

[mcurrier]

[quote name='Dolomite_supafly' timestamp='1354310699' post='853037']
Ok, for those who are for seceding what will you be to the US after you secede? You will no longer be able to effect the change this nation needs. You will be begging to come back within months.
[/quote]

Answered already (several times). As cardcutter says below -

[quote name='cardcutter' timestamp='1354309603' post='853021']The petition is nothing more than a symbolic gesture show our dissatisfaction the nations leadership and to remind them of our history when dealing with despots. Nothing was ever going to come of it and we all knew it going. If not they should have.
[/quote]

[color=#444444][font=Georgia, Times, serif]What Americans truly want is a reverse-secession casting Washington D.C. out of our borders. We have been infiltrated by marxist/socialist/communist usurpers who are hell bent on destroying America, and we, The American People, Citizens, Taxpayers, WILL NOT STAND IDELY BY while it happens![/font][/color]

[Guest Fingersoup]

[quote name='Caster' timestamp='1352754361' post='844427']
THis is ridiculous sure, but I am all for it. I am 100% for a division of this country. It needs to be split between the left and the right and see who's still alive and well in a few more years.
[/quote]
In your proposal, can the Libertarians and Independents have their own island?

[mcurrier]

[quote name='Fingersoup' timestamp='1354315237' post='853084']
In your proposal, can the Libertarians and Independents have their own island?

[/quote]

Kalifornia is scheduled to soon become an island when the next big one hits...but I wouldn't wish that on Libertarians and Independents. The kool-aid drinkers and rats can have it and go down with the ship.

[Moped]

[quote name='Fingersoup' timestamp='1354315237' post='853084']
In your proposal, can the Libertarians and Independents have their own island?

[/quote]

I'd be for that!!!

[DaveTN]

Our founding Fathers didn’t try to overthrow the English government or take over England. If they had they would have been killed and many of you wouldn’t be here; you would still be in England.

They decided to start a new government in a new land.

Those that talk of overthrowing our government by force or taking up arms are talking about doing it here. It will not end for them anywhere close to the way it did for our founding Fathers.

[Guest fauklin]

[quote name='Caster' timestamp='1354308488' post='853013']

Depending on your point of view, every guy who signed the declaration of independence was a traitor.

The difference between terrorist and a hero/martyr isn't necessarily defined by the action, but by the guy writing the history book.[/quote]
Very true
[quote name='cardcutter' timestamp='1354309603' post='853021']My 7th great Grand father, Charles Butler, walked off a farm near New Bern NC back in April of 1776 to join the 2nd NC infantry. His son and his son's sons and their son' sons have fought in every war this nation has had until this one. My Father was WWII Navy. My uncles were in Korea, My brothers traded off tours in Vietnam. I am a Marine and a disabled Vet from my service in the Gulf. I signed the damn petition and I dare anyone to challenge my patriotism.

The petition is nothing more than a symbolic gesture show our dissatisfaction the nations leadership and to remind them of our history when dealing with despots. Nothing was ever going to come of it and we all knew it going. If not they should have.

If you do not believe Civil descent is American, then perhaps it is you sir who should be doing some insightful soul searching about what it means to be an American and a patriot.[/quote]

Thank you for you and your family's service.

Being around to help "fix" the problems this country faces assumes we have faith those problems can be fixed. Politicians talk a good game, but won't do what is necessary when the time comes. Liberalism and government dependence have infiltrated our lives on a huge scale. I signed the petition knowing it was just a statement. One I'm sure will fall on deaf ears. I guess I'll just watch the liberals have their day and hope for something good once they've ran this country into the ground.

Bionic Post Edited November 30, 2012 by fauklin

[Guest fauklin]

[quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1354319251' post='853126']Our founding Fathers didn’t try to overthrow the English government or take over England. If they had they would have been killed and many of you wouldn’t be here; you would still be in England.

They decided to start a new government in a new land.

Those that talk of overthrowing our government by force or taking up arms are talking about doing it here. It will not end for them anywhere close to the way it did for our founding Fathers.[/quote]
Where in the world could we find an unclaimed land to start over? Please don't say Antarctica

Bionic Post

[DaveTN]

[quote name='fauklin' timestamp='1354319986' post='853135']
Where in the world could we find an unclaimed land to start over? Please don't say Antarctica

[/quote]
I don’t know, but if you are one of those that want to overthrow a government by force you might want to investigate alternatives. Because trying it here won’t end well for you.

Your pictures certainly won’t end up on currency anywhere. [img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/TourGlide/Web%20Stuff/biggrin.gif[/img]

[mcurrier]

[quote name='DaveTN' timestamp='1354320921' post='853142']
I don’t know, but if you are one of those that want to overthrow a government by force you might want to investigate alternatives. Because trying it here won’t end well for you.

Your pictures certainly won’t end up on currency anywhere. [img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/TourGlide/Web%20Stuff/biggrin.gif[/img]
[/quote]Searched this thread from beginning to end...STILL don't see one person here advocating "overthrowing" anything, let alone by force. Someone please point out to me where that is. Please.

[Commando68]

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1352911636' post='845504']
We have a Constitution so that we don't have to have armed rebellion - but hey, if you think taking up arms because an election didn't go the way you wanted is the smart move, feel free to do so.
[/quote]Who said anything about taking up arms? That would be foolish would it not?

[Guest ThePunisher]

I don't believe the people will take up arms against the government, but that the government will be foolish enough to take up arms against the people to try to disarm the people.

[dralarms]

[quote name='cardcutter' timestamp='1354309603' post='853021']
My 7th great Grand father, Charles Butler, walked off a farm near New Bern NC back in April of 1776 to join the 2nd NC infantry. His son and his son's sons and their son' sons have fought in every war this nation has had until this one. My Father was WWII Navy. My uncles were in Korea, My brothers traded off tours in Vietnam. I am a Marine and a disabled Vet from my service in the Gulf. I signed the damn petition and I dare anyone to challenge my patriotism.

The petition is nothing more than a symbolic gesture show our dissatisfaction the nations leadership and to remind them of our history when dealing with despots. Nothing was ever going to come of it and we all knew it going. If not they should have.

If you do not believe Civil descent is American, then perhaps it is you sir who should be doing some insightful soul searching about what it means to be an American and a patriot.
[/quote]

I'm from new Bern. My family still lives in the area.

[RobertNashville]

Who takes up arms first is irrelevant. There will be no bloodless secession.

Signing a petition is pointless especially one that is only symbolic. If people really want to effect change that can happen when they get their hands dirty and get involved in the process - get out from behind their keyboards and their TVs and go to meeting or run for office or work for a candidate. If they think civil disobedience is the way to go then they actually need to engage in some.

This "petition" isn't worth the electrons it takes to generate it. Edited December 1, 2012 by RobertNashville