Secession petition

[Chucktshoes]

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1353450891' post='848904']

You're right; it's time to give up on the Constitution and peaceful ways to effect change...it's far better to grab our "assault" rifles (before Obama confiscates them) and fight another civil war in our streets and among our homes while our children duck and cover....yeah...that's the answer! [/quote]
Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't.

The majority of the country has knowingly and willfully chosen European style socialism. The degradation of individual rights and personal liberty will only continue. While most who are involved in the discussion of secession wish for a peaceful outcome, I don't think anyone really believes it will be nice or easy even if in the extremely unlikely event it were to happen. Creating a new government is by its nature problematic and full of strife. All that being said, what are you willing to acquiesce to avoid bloodshed? How far down the road to slavery are you willing to travel to remain comfortable and safe? Where is your line? That is what this conversation is about for me. When do I stop ignoring the oath I took and begin defending the constitution against the domestic enemies in Washington? At what point am I willing to risk everything for a chance at true freedom? Something none of us in this country has ever actually known.

[TMF]

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1353454003' post='848934']
Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't.

The majority of the country has knowingly and willfully chosen European style socialism. The degradation of individual rights and personal liberty will only continue. While most who are involved in the discussion of secession wish for a peaceful outcome, I don't think anyone really believes it will be nice or easy even if in the extremely unlikely event it were to happen. Creating a new government is by its nature problematic and full of strife. All that being said, what are you willing to acquiesce to avoid bloodshed? How far down the road to slavery are you willing to travel to remain comfortable and safe? Where is your line? That is what this conversation is about for me. When do I stop ignoring the oath I took and begin defending the constitution against the domestic enemies in Washington? At what point am I willing to risk everything for a chance at true freedom? Something none of us in this country has ever actually known.[/quote]

The enemy isn't in Washington. The enemy is in the mirror.

[Chucktshoes]

[quote name='TMF' timestamp='1353454220' post='848935']

The enemy isn't in Washington. The enemy is in the mirror.[/quote]
No, I know where my line is. If you don't have a line, if you are willing to give up all pretense of liberty to avoid the inevitable then the enemy is you.

[Commando68]

[quote name='TMF' timestamp='1353454220' post='848935']


The enemy isn't in Washington. The enemy is in the mirror.
[/quote]whose side are you on?

[TMF]

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1353454548' post='848936']
No, I know where my line is. If you don't have a line, if you are willing to give up all pretense of liberty to avoid the inevitable then the enemy is you.[/quote]

Point I'm making is that folks seem to sink all the blame into our corrupt, overreaching government and ignore that we're the ones that put them there. Until we can accept that we can't fix the problem.

[Chucktshoes]

[quote name='TMF' timestamp='1353456930' post='848958']

Point I'm making is that folks seem to sink all the blame into our corrupt, overreaching government and ignore that we're the ones that put them there. Until we can accept that we can't fix the problem.[/quote]

I can fully agree with that. It does amuse me however than when I vote for the only candidates that actually have a platform that values individual libertyand states rights, I am told I am "wasting my vote" because I don't support either of the big two statist parties.

That being said, I still maintain that at this point the progressives have won and it is all over for this country but the shooting. Pick your line and choose your time to die because the majority won't fight back or choose freedom until the illusion of choice that they have now is stripped away when those running the show quit having to pretend.

[TMF]

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1353457393' post='848963']

I can fully agree with that. It does amuse me however than when I vote for the only candidates that actually have a platform that values individual libertyand states rights, I am told I am "wasting my vote" because I don't support either of the big two statist parties.

[/quote]

Yeah, I'm of the mindset of there being no such thing as a wasted vote, except the vote not cast. I think the only way to get back some seblance of control is to work within the system to get the two parties back to making this country great. 10 percent of the voting population can do this by never allowing an incumbent to be reelected, and swinging the vote to the opposing party of corrupt career politicians. One election cycle of incumbent firing followed by another might get them to actually work after getting elected.

[RobertNashville]

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1353454003' post='848934']
Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't.

The majority of the country has knowingly and willfully chosen European style socialism. The degradation of individual rights and personal liberty will only continue. While most who are involved in the discussion of secession wish for a peaceful outcome, I don't think anyone really believes it will be nice or easy even if in the extremely unlikely event it were to happen. Creating a new government is by its nature problematic and full of strife. All that being said, what are you willing to acquiesce to avoid bloodshed? How far down the road to slavery are you willing to travel to remain comfortable and safe? Where is your line? That is what this conversation is about for me. When do I stop ignoring the oath I took and begin defending the constitution against the domestic enemies in Washington? At what point am I willing to risk everything for a chance at true freedom? Something none of us in this country has ever actually known.[/quote]
I honestly don't know where my line is and I probably won't know until I reach it...but I'm not there yet and I don't believe "we" are there yet either.

I suspect most who seem to be wishing for secession (which really means a very painful and bloody revolution as you note), have no real idea just how horrible that would be nor have they ever been in a position where they had the real possibly of dying from a bomb or a missile of a gunshot. In other words, people need to be careful and truly understand what they wish for.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, even if we formed a new country and new government and/or restored this one to the Constitution; we still have the same people...those are the ones in the mirror I think was being referred to. The "Red" stats aren't really all that Red...we have the lazy, the stupid, the ill-informed, the crooks and the thugs and the liberals and the socialist in all strata and in all states; until that changes...until we can change those who can be changed into productive and thoughtful citizens we are doomed, with or without secession.

Finally, I think the whole issue of secession is moot anyway because we'll never get that far...unless we can effect real change and pretty quickly; I suspect the current government and our country will fail due to not just a complete collapse of our economy but a world-wide economic collapse meaning we may all be arming up and trying to survive just the chaos of that; never mind "secession".

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I don't think secession is an answer. Just nullify all unconstitutional laws enacted by Congress and the president.
Uh huh.
TMF said look in the mirror. That is where the problem lies. Until enough people realize what they want
doesn't just grow on trees, and get the right, principled people who will act according to our Constitution and not
feed the parasites, we won't get anywhere.

[Links2k]

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1353432123' post='848773']
To be blunt (which is a problem for me); I find it a bit appalling that there are people who actually do think secession is either a good idea or even possible.

I'm also a bit sad that such talk is even allowed to go on here.

But to answer the above question; no, it doesn't sound like a good idea but as is usually the case, people tend to want to deal with the "romance" of an issue and not the reality of it...it sounds very manly/tough/patriotic/freedom-loving/independent to talk about secession (which is really just a substitute for revolution) but dealing with the harsh realities of what would happen isn't so romantic.
[/quote]

You hit the nail on the head.

[S&WForty]

We wouldn't need all this talk if an alien spaceship would come take away all of the Democrats and RINOs. Replace them with Tea Party members and Libertarians. I think the TP and L parties could reach across the isle and agree with each other about 1,000,000 times easier than R's and D's.

Just picture that flying saucer lifting off with Pelosi, Reid, and the RINO's staring out the windows.... If only...

[RobertNashville]

You would have to find some aliens with some incredibly low standards.

I can believe in aliens but I don't think I can believe in aliens smart enough to build interstellar ships but dumb enough to take the likes of Reid and Pelosi.

[S&WForty]

I can dream. Until that is taxed...

[Guest 6.8 AR]

It all starts with a dream, sometimes.

[greenego]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQV_YKBvxbc[/media]

[Guest Lester Weevils]

[quote name='S&WForty' timestamp='1353518918' post='849168']
We wouldn't need all this talk if an alien spaceship would come take away all of the Democrats and RINOs. Replace them with Tea Party members and Libertarians. I think the TP and L parties could reach across the isle and agree with each other about 1,000,000 times easier than R's and D's.

Just picture that flying saucer lifting off with Pelosi, Reid, and the RINO's staring out the windows.... If only...
[/quote]

Was under the impression that Reid, Pelosi and such as Lindsay Grahamnesty ARE the aliens. Even if you don't have the special alien-detecting sunglasses-- Even the most cursory visual/auditory examination makes it plainly obvious that the skin, hair, inappropriate gestures and bizarre speech are mere shoddy simulacra of the real deal. Inept camouflage at best.

[b]To Serve Man[/b]. Wait! Don't go on the ship! Its a cookbook!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgAwdixodjw[/media]

[RobertNashville]

[quote name='Lester Weevils' timestamp='1353521577' post='849184']...[b]To Serve Man[/b]. Wait! Don't go on the ship! Its a cookbook![/quote]
That is one of my all-time favorite episodes.

[mcurrier]

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1353519105' post='849169']
You would have to find some aliens with some incredibly low standards.

I can believe in aliens but I don't think I can believe in aliens smart enough to build interstellar ships but dumb enough to take the likes of Reid and Pelosi.
[/quote]

Farrakhan is waiting for his space ship to come back, maybe he'll take the rest of the dingbats with him.

Edited November 21, 2012 by mcurrier

[Guest HvyMtl]

http://www.dss.mil/about_dss/news/20121116.html

[mcurrier]

A brilliant piece by Walter E. Williams -


[b] Parting Company[/b]


http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/2012/11/28/williams-parting-company/?subscriber=1

[Guest HvyMtl]

For those of you who didnt catch what I linked, it is a response for review process for Security Clearances. Although they did not come out and say the security clearances would be revoked for signing a petition, they do go on to say it will be reviewed.

I am in agreement. It should be reviewed, and your security clearance should be revoked for acting in such manner. Edited November 29, 2012 by HvyMtl

[mcurrier]

[quote name='HvyMtl' timestamp='1354230256' post='852576']
For those of you who didnt catch what I linked, it is a response for review process for Security Clearances. Although they did not come out and say the security clearances would be revoked for signing a petition, they do go on to say it will be reviewed.

I am in agreement. It should be reviewed, and your security clearance should be revoked for acting in such manner.
[/quote]

Why don't we just execute them or stone them? Free thinking alert - grab that guy and stone him!

Yeah, the bunch that's in there running things now is such a model of tight security and pro-America, pro-Constitution.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I agree. They should loose their clearances as well as their job if they hold a government job. If they signed it as a military member then they should be booted out under dishonorable conditions.

If you signed the petition then, to me, you have denounced your willingness to remain a citizen of the United States. If you think the US is so bad that you feel you need to leave through secession then you probably need to go ahead and leave the country anyways. After all you have given up on the democratic process that we would have cheered had your chosen candidate won.

Dolomite

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I thought signing a petition was part of the democratic process? Mebbe they should revoke clearances and fire people who sign ballot petitions for the "wrong candidate" as well? Signed a ballot petition for an R or L? Immediate dishonorable discharge! Edited November 29, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[QuietDan]

When it becomes time to sign a Personal Loyalty Oath to the God-Emperor Barack Hussein Obama I, we will all have a serious problem. It is coming.