Secession petition

[enfield]

[quote name='TMF' timestamp='1352818567' post='844797']
Hmmm, like, the whole government? I guess when I was in the military I was part of the government and was never filled in on any vast conspiracy. Maybe I just wasn't high up enough. I'll send a text to my buddies at the Pentagon and see if they know anything about it.

Maybe you meant our elected officials. In that case I'll give a call to a friend of mine who served as a state representative in Florida. He would have to know something about this.

Or maybe it's a sneaky shadow government. That would make more sense I guess. I don't know anyone on the "Smoky Room, Hand Wringing Panel", but I guess that's why they're so sneaky.
[/quote]

Not worth a response.

[TMF]

[quote name='enfield' timestamp='1352819190' post='844804']

Not worth a response.[/quote]

I'm just trying to clear up who is "they". There are over 4 million Americans that make up our government. Are they all coming after the rest of us, or just some? If some, then who? How are they able to conceal their plans from other members of the government? Once we clear up who "they" are I think that the rest of us could better prepare for the civil war folks keep say is coming, don't you agree? You must have an idea who "they" are if you know their plans. Please, fill the rest of us in. I want to know too!

[G27]

[quote name='enfield' timestamp='1352819147' post='844803']
Exacty right. But no response IS a response.
[/quote]
Haha, so whether they even read it or not, no matter how they reply, or don't, it's a response?

[i]"They ignored our outrageous request completely - victory!"[/i]

[enfield]

[quote name='crimsonaudio' timestamp='1352819920' post='844814']
Haha, so whether they even read it or not, no matter how they reply, or don't, it's a response?

[i]"They ignored our outrageous request completely - victory!"[/i]
[/quote]

Yes it is. This government is "of, by and for the people".

We retained the right to petition Congress for a redress of grievances. There is no requirement for Congress to redress our grievances, but we're giving them the opportunity, within the constraints of Supreme Law of the Land, the Constitution. Lack of redress, from another government in another time, led to the founding of this new country. It wasn't a pleasant process.

I don't expect Congress to cut Tennessee or any other state loose, but this hopefully starts a conversation about grievances between the people and their creation - the Federal goverment. It's how it's done, legally, when our elected representatives can't or won't represent our interests. It's appropriate when elections don't change the massively unpopular direction of the government. It's appropriate when a large portion of the people, even though apparently a minority, don't like their treatment by the apparent majority. It's appropriate to avoid a tyranny of the majority.

It's something our government has always had trouble understanding and dealing with -- people who lose elections still have rights equal to those who won the election. No majority has the right to feed on the minority. Edited November 13, 2012 by enfield

[RobertNashville]

[quote name='enfield' timestamp='1352816789' post='844782']

The government is REQUIRED to [s]care about[/s] receive the petitions - it's in the Constitution. Read it some time.

By the way, it's SEcession, not SUCcession.[/quote]and the Constitution means so much these days.

Edited November 13, 2012 by RobertNashville

[BryanP]

[quote name='JayC' timestamp='1352817072' post='844785']

Boy, how we gloss over history of our first despot

[/quote]

If you're going to go back to people who ignored the Constitution, you have to go further. Jefferson had absolutely zero constitutional authority to make the Louisiana Purchase, but he went ahead and did it anyway. It seems to have worked out for us in the long term, but it was still unconstitutional as hell.

[mcurrier]

[b] [size=4]A petition against the signers of the petitions for secession. Which group sounds more petty of the two?[/size][/b]

[b] Libs Want To Strip the Citizenship from Everyone who Signed a Petition to Secede and Exile Them[/b]


https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/strip-citizenship-everyone-who-signed-petition-secede-and-exile-them/ZbMjcwPf

As I recall, Streisand and others promised to leave the U.S. if Bush won. Still waiting for her to leave. Lefty libs want their cake and eat it also.

[strickj]

[quote name='mcurrier' timestamp='1352842688' post='845016']
[b] [size=4]A petition against the signers of the petitions for secession. Which group sounds more petty of the two?[/size][/b]

[b] Libs Want To Strip the Citizenship from Everyone who Signed a Petition to Secede and Exile Them[/b]


[url="https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/strip-citizenship-everyone-who-signed-petition-secede-and-exile-them/ZbMjcwPf"]https://petitions.wh...e-them/ZbMjcwPf[/url]


[/quote]

Giving them what they asked for? How absurd.

[Guest The Dude]

Seems to me that most of the people against this are the first ones to say they love freedom, but look down upon, and critcize those actually making an attempt to get the focus of the government back where it needs to be. The interests of the poeple. Its not about being a sore loser in the elections like some people claim. If thats the case, then why isnt the petition for an election re-count skyrocketing with signers? Its about being dragged along into a sea of debt, having liberties stripped and destroying our rights that so many have fought and died for, again and again. For those of you who think voting will make it better, tell that to the several million voters who's vote didnt count once Obama had already won with several states left to get counted. It happens every election time and time again. The 2 party system is a joke at best, and niether ever give a damn about you or me, and they never will. Is it that hard to see that our current system is way out of control?

Its pretty clear the morons in D.C. dont give a rats ass for anyone of us. They are, and have been, on a power trip for many, many years. Nothing will likely stem for this, but it still sends a clear message IMO.

Let the flaming begin...

[G27]

[quote name='The Dude' timestamp='1352844849' post='845043']
Seems to me that most of the people against this are the first ones to say they love freedom, but look down upon, and critcize those actually making an attempt to get the focus of the government back where it needs to be. The interests of the poeple. Its not about being a sore loser in the elections like some people claim. If thats the case, then why isnt the petition for an election re-count skyrocketing with signers? Its about being dragged along into a sea of debt, having liberties stripped and destroying our rights that so many have fought and died for, again and again. For those of you who think voting will make it better, tell that to the several million voters who's vote didnt count once Obama had already won with several states left to get counted. It happens every election time and time again. The 2 party system is a joke at best, and niether ever give a damn about you or me, and they never will. Is it that hard to see that our current system is way out of control?
[/quote]
Yah, none of us who think this pointless / useless petition is a silly exercise are for any sort of reform, we're all just Obama-loving tax and spend communists.

</sarcasm>

Maybe some people see this for what it is - a waste of energy. Nothing, zero, nada is going to come from this and the timing of this - directly after the election with no legislation happening which would cause the uproar - makes it look like a bunch of butt-hurt repubs who can't get over the fact they lost.

Believe it or not, there are actually effective ways of communicating with government officials beyond preposterous requests that will yield something other than an eye roll.

[Guest The Dude]

How much more crappy legislation do you want?

[G27]

[quote name='The Dude' timestamp='1352845656' post='845047']
How much more crappy legislation do you want?
[/quote]None, but if you're going to claim this isn't a knee-jerk reaction to losing last week, you're going to have to come up with something. If it's not election butt-hurt and it's not legislation, then what is it?

ETA: Y'all have fun with it, but unless / until you're willing to admit this is just a reaction to losing the election, most folks are just going to ignore it. If you really want change, you're going to have to be able to present something other than 'sore loser' as your reasoning. I'm out. Edited November 13, 2012 by crimsonaudio

[mcurrier]

[quote name='crimsonaudio' timestamp='1352846471' post='845051']
None, but if you're going to claim this isn't a knee-jerk reaction to losing last week, you're going to have to come up with something. If it's not election butt-hurt and it's not legislation, then what is it?

ETA: Y'all have fun with it, but unless / until you're willing to admit this is just a reaction to losing the election, most folks are just going to ignore it. If you really want change, you're going to have to be able to present something other than 'sore loser' as your reasoning. I'm out.
[/quote]

It is called [i]foresight[/i] of where this country is going, how far it's going to go, and how fast we arrive at the point of no return. We are already approaching alarmingly fast. Now, in a second so-called "lame-duck" term, the brakes have been removed from the vehicle and the accelerator jammed down at full throttle with a broom stick. This foresight is not based on a guess, or upon 'fear', it is based upon experience and the record of the driver for the past four years who is inebriated and out of control, yet no one will issue him a D.U.I. The driver got behind the wheel without any prior driving experience. Many tried to warn that this job was not conducive to on-the-job training.

[TMF]

[quote name='The Dude' timestamp='1352844849' post='845043']?

Its pretty clear the morons in D.C. dont give a rats ass for anyone of us. They are, and have been, on a power trip for many, many years. Nothing will likely stem for this, but it still sends a clear message IMO.

[/quote]

Of course, that is a given. But that is like leaving the Thanksgiving turkey on the counter where the dog can get it, then getting pissed at the dog when he eats it. It ain't the dogs fault; it's his nature. The fault lies with the dummy that gave him access to the turkey.

The issue here is that you blame career politicians for being crooked. It is in their nature. They're made up of slimy lawyers and power hungry trust fund babies. No, the fault lies in your fellow Americans that allow this to happen. We are all to blame. The crappy part is that Americans are to f-ing stupid to see that, so they latch on to one party or the other in hopes that they win out on certain policies that are most important to them, as they continue to hand over the reins to a one of the two crooked parties.

The answer to that is not to completely throw away our system of government, revolt and prop up an illegitimate power. The answer is to reject the two party system and fire our leaders peacefully. If you and your fellow Americans are too damn lazy/selfish/ignorant to do that get ready to suck it up with the rest of us as we crash our economy.

[Guest The Dude]

I dont really see it as a sore loser approach, but rather a long line of offenses made against the constitution and the people of this country. The people in power have not been held accountable for their actions, yet have and still remain un-responsible for the poor decisions made by themselves, and leave the people to float the bill. We no longer seem to have a system of checks and balances, The executive branch has given itself supreme power, and continues to ignore the laws put in place that granted them their initial power in the first place, Our currency is losing value, our economy is junk, our unemployment is much higher than we're told, our borders are open and the innocent people pay the price for the guilty. Our government openly tells us that we are the enemy and that there's a boogeyman at every corner, Our freedoms are being taken in return for false sense of security all while some asshats in Washington advocate that our constitution be re-written. I'd say theres plenty of reasons for the people to show their disgust with our current coarse.

[Guest The Dude]

[quote name='TMF' timestamp='1352847727' post='845057']
Of course, that is a given. But that is like leaving the Thanksgiving turkey on the counter where the dog can get it, then getting pissed at the dog when he eats it. It ain't the dogs fault; it's his nature. The fault lies with the dummy that gave him access to the turkey.

The issue here is that you blame career politicians for being crooked. It is in their nature. They're made up of slimy lawyers and power hungry trust fund babies. No, the fault lies in your fellow Americans that allow this to happen. We are all to blame. The crappy part is that Americans are to f-ing stupid to see that, so they latch on to one party or the other in hopes that they win out on certain policies that are most important to them, as they continue to hand over the reins to a one of the two crooked parties.

The answer to that is not to completely throw away our system of government, revolt and prop up an illegitimate power. The answer is to reject the two party system and fire our leaders peacefully. If you and your fellow Americans are too damn lazy/selfish/ignorant to do that get ready to suck it up with the rest of us as we crash our economy.
[/quote]

I do agree. It is everyones fault as a whole. And this system can work. But now those in power have gotten so greedy they wont peacefully go, or be held accountable for their corruption. Just look at Eric Holder with the F&F garbage. Prime example. Or when Panetta openly told Congress he sought UN and NATO approval to use military action over congressional approval.

[Guest CCI]

[quote name='The Dude' timestamp='1352847805' post='845058']
I dont really see it as a sore loser approach, but rather a long line of offenses made against the constitution and the people of this country. The people in power have not been held accountable for their actions, yet have and still remain un-responsible for the poor decisions made by themselves, and leave the people to float the bill. We no longer seem to have a system of checks and balances, The executive branch has given itself supreme power, and continues to ignore the laws put in place that granted them their initial power in the first place, Our currency is losing value, our economy is junk, our unemployment is much higher than we're told, our borders are open and the innocent people pay the price for the guilty. Our government openly tells us that we are the enemy and that there's a boogeyman at every corner, Our freedoms are being taken in return for false sense of security all while some asshats in Washington advocate that our constitution be re-written. I'd say theres plenty of reasons for the people to show their disgust with our current coarse.
[/quote]Excellent post!

[mcurrier]

[quote name='TMF' timestamp='1352847727' post='845057']

The answer to that is not to completely throw away our system of government, revolt and prop up an illegitimate power.
[/quote]Not directing this at you, TMF, but to everyone in general... I have not seen one person on TGO advocating this. Or anyone else for that matter. The secession thing, if people want to go there in argument, will not happen, and is more of a symbolic gesture, so that is not a threat of revolt. Besides, there is a method of secession mentioned in the Constitution, so it's not that far out there, but it won't happen either way.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Someone, anyone, explain to me how removing ourselves from the United States of America will make us better.

I know this is symbolic but realistically if we were allowed to secede what would we gain?

Dolomite

[TripleDigitRide]

[quote name='Dolomite_supafly' timestamp='1352866886' post='845289']Someone, anyone, explain to me how removing ourselves from the United States of America will make us better.

I know this is symbolic but realistically if we were allowed to secede what would we gain?

Dolomite[/quote]

Unless you're interested in living like it's the 1800's again, nothing.

[TMF]

[quote name='mcurrier' timestamp='1352866265' post='845278']Not directing this at you, TMF, but to everyone in general... I have not seen one person on TGO advocating this. Or anyone else for that matter. The secession thing, if people want to go there in argument, will not happen, and is more of a symbolic gesture, so that is not a threat of revolt. Besides, there is a method of secession mentioned in the Constitution, so it's not that far out there, but it won't happen either way.[/quote]

I have. There is quite a bit of revolution speak. What happens after that? Free elections? That is not how revolutions normally work.

[Wingshooter]

Instead of a bunch of states seceeding, can we just put out DC, CA and a couple of other liberal states? Seems easier since we like the Constitution and all. Edited November 14, 2012 by Batman

[Guest HvyMtl]

Ok, so, like you are going all out on a petition, which means absolutely zero, so you can waste tax payers money, having some low level bureaucrat tell you off?

Perhaps Gov Bobby Jindal is right, the GOP needs to "stop being the stupid party." Edited November 14, 2012 by HvyMtl

[Guest Lester Weevils]

[quote name='TMF' timestamp='1352847727' post='845057']
The answer to that is not to completely throw away our system of government, revolt and prop up an illegitimate power.
[/quote]

Just being pedantic, not advocating--- If a legitimately elected state gov were to secede, and a majority of state citizens were cool with it, how illegitimate would that be? Sounds about as legitimate as it gets as far as I can see.

Now ferinstance if california were to secede, my reaction would be, "Don't let the screen door hit you on the way out."

[DaveTN]

[quote name='Dolomite_supafly' timestamp='1352866886' post='845289']
Someone, anyone, explain to me how removing ourselves from the United States of America will make us better.

I know this is symbolic but realistically if we were allowed to secede what would we gain?

Dolomite
[/quote]
We would gain all or industry shutting down, our banking system gone, our external food supply greatly reduced if not shut off altogether. We would not have control of TVA and would probably be without power.

In short, we would be cut off from all the life sustaining supplies we need and we would either die or be forced to stop the non-sense.

We live in an age on TV; not reality. Most of those suggesting this picture themselves running through the country side carry a gun and being a hero (that’s how it works on TV). Reality is most of us couldn’t run across the street let alone the country side, and most don’t have the skills to stay alive or out of the way of a bullet for more than a couple of days.