Why didn't 94 million Americans vote?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

[quote name='HvyMtl' timestamp='1352651430' post='843762']
We do disenfranchise a lot of our population, and the two parties [i]want it this way.[/i] It makes it easier for their candidates to get elected, if those who are not supporters of the party do not vote.

This is why we have all these new Voter ID laws, because the GOP knows those who are put out by having to have ID won't get to vote, and they know those people being put out usually vote Democrat. Block your opponent's voters, win the election. Disenfranchise them, they will quit trying to vote.

Another example is the blocking of third party candidates. They are not on the ballot, they are not threat, and those who wish to vote for them either stay home, or vote for someone they do not want.
[/quote]
Sorry, but this is utter nonsense. Blaming this one on the GOP is wrong. What's wrong with having legitimate voting?
If you can't provide a valid ID to vote, it doesn't matter which party you might be voting for. It is pretty damned easy to
get a valid ID to show who you are, and it doesn't cost a dime, except the taxpayer's money. Look at Allen West and
his problem like Mark pointed out.

All the requirement for photo ID does is slow down the illegitimate voting that appears to be rampant. If the GOP or a
third party candidate is losing votes by invalid voters voting two or three times, why wouldn't you want a voter to have
a valid ID? Why the Hell do you think the Democrats are opposed to it?

[Guest HvyMtl]

Point is this: If a law blocks ONE. ONE. ONE VALID VOTE, did it disenfranchise the voter? It is starting to be proven, and the courts are starting to decide, voter ID laws block valid votes. Blocking valid votes, from valid voters is disenfranchising.

In most cases, this so called rampant multi-voting, or fake voting, is limited, or simply is not an issue.

And again. If you block a legitimate vote, did you do harm? I say, yes.

[Guest ThePunisher]

[quote name='6.8 AR' timestamp='1352750817' post='844399']

Why the Hell do you think the Democrats are opposed to it?
[/quote]

Because they've got to cheat to win. If anybody is against voter ID, then they condone voter fraud.

[Guest ThePunisher]

[quote name='HvyMtl' timestamp='1352751310' post='844402']
It is starting to be proven, and the courts are starting to decide, voter ID laws block valid votes.
[/quote]

Thai is total BS in my humble opinion.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Ok
[quote name='HvyMtl' timestamp='1352751310' post='844402']
It is starting to be proven, and the courts are starting to decide, voter ID laws block valid votes.
[/quote]
[quote name='ThePunisher' timestamp='1352752706' post='844410']
Thai is total BS in my humble opinion.
[/quote]
Ok, fine, a simple google search:
[url="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/03/us/pennsylvania-judge-delays-implementation-of-voter-id-law.html"]http://www.nytimes.c...r-id-law.html��[/url] This is Pennsylvania, though over-ruled, and now going higher in the appeal process.
[url="http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/30/nation/la-na-texas-voting-20120831"]http://articles.lati...ting-20120831��[/url] Texas
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/2012/0901/Bad-week-for-voter-ID-laws.-Will-Supreme-Court-weigh-in-before-election South Carolina and Ohio

Oh, and one last one: Tennessee [url="http://lj.libraryjournal.com/2012/11/litigation/tn-supreme-court-memphis-library-cards-are-voter-id/%20%20Tennessee"]http://lj.libraryjou...-id/[/url] Edited November 12, 2012 by HvyMtl

[Guest HvyMtl]

Sorry, double post. :/ Edited November 12, 2012 by HvyMtl

[Wingshooter]

[quote name='HvyMtl' timestamp='1352751310' post='844402']Point is this: If a law blocks ONE. ONE. ONE VALID VOTE, did it disenfranchise the voter? It is starting to be proven, and the courts are starting to decide, voter ID laws block valid votes. Blocking valid votes, from valid voters is disenfranchising.

In most cases, this so called rampant multi-voting, or fake voting, is limited, or simply is not an issue.

And again. If you block a legitimate vote, did you do harm? I say, yes.[/quote]

How does having to show id block a "valid vote"? The ID is what validates the voter thus the vote.


Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[Guest HvyMtl]

How does it? The voter, who by not commiting certain crimes, being registered, etc., has a right to vote.

However, they do not have the ability to get the ID, due to inability to get to the location the ID is produced, or cannot afford to either get there, or afford the id (in Tennessee, they have attempted to avoid the ID cost. In several views, enforcing an ID cost is the equivalent to a Poll Tax.) Or could not afford to take the day off work to go and get the ID. Or, in the case of the elderly, may not be able to make the trip, and have no one to enable them to.

The person does get the chance to vote, but does not have the ID. Their vote is blocked, as they cannot show the additional required ID. In this way, a valid vote is blocked. Or, they see the time, expense, or inability as too big of a road block, and do not vote. Was someone disenfranchised? Would they have voted, if there was no additional expense? Or if there were some insurmountable block, such as traveling to the location to get the ID?

In Nashville, we have a few locations. In multiple counties in this state, there is no DMV. You have to travel distances longer than the very poor, or elderly can. Example: Too poor to own a car, and have to use the bus for long distances. In no way does the bus travel to the DMV 2 counties from your county. Is that a barrier to your voting?

FYI: In Tennessee, your voter registration card was ID enough before the new law. This, plus similar signature on the voting books, was enough to get a vote. I do not recall rampant voter ID fraud in Tennessee, as the officials (these officials represented both the GOP and the DEMs) in each voting location had the duty to question any suspected vote. Edited November 12, 2012 by HvyMtl

[Oh Shoot]

[quote name='Lester Weevils' timestamp='1352737962' post='844310']
Perhaps complicated in determining "over 100 percent turnout" or fraud, because the districts were freshly gerrymandered since West's first election 2 years ago and he was running in a different and "changed" district.
[/quote]

That whole area is traditionally strongly Dem, and abuts with Debbie Shultz's.

But perhaps more of a factor, if that redistricting made his area less black could certainly account for it too. (I didn't research whether this is true).

- OS Edited November 12, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest ThePunisher]

How about during the next primary and general elections in 2014 that all voting poll locations be set up for getting ID's taken. If everyone can get to the polls to vote, then they can get photographed for all future voting. Edited November 12, 2012 by ThePunisher

[Guest HvyMtl]

[quote name='ThePunisher' timestamp='1352756124' post='844445']
How about during the next primary and general elections in 2014 that all voting poll locations be set up for getting ID's taken. If everyone can get to the polls to vote, then they can get photographed for all future voting.
[/quote]

This would be a great idea. Polling booths are local, and more readily available than the DMV. Only issues I see is the expense and manpower. And yes, the poor could get the time to go vote, as it is required by Tennessee law they get the opportunity to do so without negative repercussions from their employer. Edited November 12, 2012 by HvyMtl

[Oh Shoot]

One stat that rather debunks the voter ID disenfranchisement claim is that nationwide, had about the same % of eligible voter turnout this year as normal, actually a bit higher than 2008. Seems if the various ID laws that were enacted since '08 were really keeping folks from voting in any measurable degree, turnout would have been less?

- OS

[Guest 6.8 AR]

If it disenfranchises one vote, who cares? The one voter who lets it get in his way doesn't need to be voting anyway.
There are more important issues like honesty and fairness in elections that bother me. I would rather take away a voters
rights if they are voting dishonestly any day of the week. One person is supposed to equal one vote. Not twelve.

A voter who is upset at this needs to re-evaluate what it is that is important to him. Besides, it is against the law to
vote more than once. How are you going to stop the problem of voter fraud?

[Guest Lester Weevils]

[quote name='OhShoot' timestamp='1352756003' post='844443']
That whole area is traditionally strongly Dem, and abuts with Debbie Shultz's.

But perhaps more of a factor, if that redistricting made his area less black could certainly account for it too. (I didn't research whether this is true).

- OS
[/quote]

Tis doubtful that West got many black votes. Am trying not to stereotype black voters but most black congresspersons are the polar opposite of hard-tail tea party right-wingers. In Chatt I've seen some young black fellas with Ron Paul stickers on their cars so the communism isn't universal, but if many blacks were inclined to vote for such as West then we ought to have more foaming at the mouth right-wing black congresspersons than just an occasional rare instance or two-- The exceptions which make the rule. If the new district had MORE black population it might have hurt West more than having LESS black population. Though FL has so many commie white transplanted yankies, some areas of FL might be real shy of conservative voters of any stripe.

Am not scoffing at the idea West may have been intentionally gerrymandered out, or scoffing that there might have been massive fraud. The D's despise West and he was a high-priority target. Was just saying that if such happened, it might be difficult to prove in a different district, and all districts having been freshly gerrymandered. The prior records might be difficult to parse looking for iron-clad statistical evidence.

If West wants to be a congressman again and the recount doesn't go well, perhaps if he wants to remain in FL he should find a district in NW FL with an old tired rep who plans to retire, and move there immediately so the residency is solid two years hence. Or maybe move to a red state in a district with a soon-retiring republican representative. Edited November 12, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[mav]

[quote name='6.8 AR' timestamp='1352758214' post='844465']
Besides, it is against the law to vote more than once. How are you going to stop the problem of voter fraud?
[/quote]

You won't be able to. The entire argument on voter disenfranchisement is utter nonsense. If you try to legislate to the extreme, you end up legislating nothing, because it is impossible to do. Someone will always find some case somewhere, an outlier, that will keep pushing the boundaries out further, thereby rendering the the original intent of the legislation useless.

We could look at our legal system analogously. I am certain that someone somewhere has been disenfranchised or wrongly convicted in our legal system. Using the same thought process by going to the extreme, we should scrap our entire legal system and certainly not add any new laws.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

The only voter disenfranchisement is the slob who doesn't want to vote in the first place. That's their right and
they can do as they please. I take the time, each and every election, to do what is expected to be able to vote,
and I don't give a damn if someone wants to make up some excuse to say they have been taken advantage of.

True voter disenfranchisement is when the voter doesn't have a choice between the candidates and decides not
to vote. I am fine with that because even if I ask them to vote, it still is their choice. If someone truly wants to vote,
he or she will get off their ass and do what is necessary, just like I did.

As far as I am concerned, there should an IQ test, or a test about what it is they are actually voting for, before
they are allowed to vote. There also ought to be a test on how much government assistance that person gets
before they are allowed to vote. Otherwise, vote yourself some more welfare. You're entitled, after all.

[mav]

[quote name='6.8 AR' timestamp='1352773076' post='844615']
Otherwise, vote yourself some more welfare. You're entitled, after all.
[/quote]

Speaking of that, I saw the funniest bumper sticker the other day. "Don't quit your job. Keep Working. Millions on welfare depend on you."

[clarky07]

[quote name='HvyMtl' timestamp='1352651430' post='843762']
We do disenfranchise a lot of our population, and the two parties [i]want it this way.[/i] It makes it easier for their candidates to get elected, if those who are not supporters of the party do not vote.

This is why we have all these new Voter ID laws, because the GOP knows those who are put out by having to have ID won't get to vote, and they know those people being put out usually vote Democrat. Block your opponent's voters, win the election. Disenfranchise them, they will quit trying to vote.

Another example is the blocking of third party candidates. They are not on the ballot, they are not threat, and those who wish to vote for them either stay home, or vote for someone they do not want.
[/quote]

If you can't be arsed to register or get an ID to vote, then you aren't interested enough for me to want you to vote. Allen West's District had higher turnout than registered voters, so I think fraud is a bigger problem than you realize.

[Oh Shoot]

[quote name='clarky07' timestamp='1352781951' post='844690']
If you can't be arsed to register or get an ID to vote, then you aren't interested enough for me to want you to vote. Allen West's District had higher turnout than registered voters, so I think fraud is a bigger problem than you realize.
[/quote]

Yeah, I'm seeing that (sort of) reported now, but not through any major news outlets including Fox, so just don't know if it's true. See figures as high as 100k more votes than registered, pretty wild fraud if true. Even Beck's site doesn't seem to claim more votes than voters.

I'm mainly seeing pretty credible claims about a counting glitch in St. Lucie county, which seems to be West's main claim.

Is there somewhere Allen West himself says this, about the registered/actual vote?

- OS Edited November 13, 2012 by OhShoot