Why did Romney lose?

[BrasilNuts]

I have read and listened to a lot of people say that the republican party lost the election because women didn't like their stance on abortion or Hispanics didn't like their stance on immigration or blacks didn't like their stance on whatever....

In my opinion Romney lost because of the 58169279 people that cast a vote for him most of them weren't voting for Romney, but against Obama.

If the republican party starts moving farther to the left to try and gain votes... watch out your 2A rights just might be one of the things they compromise on.

The republican party is clueless.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX-GAkaXSSI&feature=share&list=UUWq53_f3zgMcWuE-XFKSpyQ[/media] Edited November 9, 2012 by BrasilNuts

[Guest Razz]

Here's a news flash that I would REALLY like to see some attention paid:

There are a ton of moderate and left-leaning dems that are pro 2A. The NRA is such a right-wing institution that these folks avoid it like the plague. Sites like TGO have so many loudmouth conservative spouting downright hateful speech about dems that you'll rarely have the opportunity to have a discussion about protecting 2A with people who actually have the ability to sway other moderate dems.

2A is NOT the property of conservatives and yet that is EXACTLY how many republicans act. The thing is, I don't think many conservatives really care about PROTECTING 2A as much as COMPLAINING about liberals.

I make it a point to have one positive discussion per day with an open minded democrat. We don't often see eye-to-eye when the conversation is over but I know they leave with a little bit more knowledge than they started with. What I DON'T do is belittle them about their political affiliation and speak of their alleged inferiority. (if your response is that you don't know any open-minded dems, please don't bother responding at all. You're part of the problem but too stupid to realize it)

I'm tiring of firearm enthusiast websites who's front page of recent posts are over 50% political whining without some objective thinking.

I want to be a part of this community but my patience is wearing thin with a lot of you. I'm hear to learn and share experiences but my willingness to be a positive participant at TGO is almost gone.

Edit:
My repsonce here could have just as easily been posted in any of the recent rash of anti-liberal, reactionary threads of late. It is not directed at BrazilNuts or any one person in particular. Edited November 9, 2012 by Razz

[mav]

[quote name='Razz' timestamp='1352476684' post='842475']
Here's a news flash that I would REALLY like to see some attention paid:

There are a ton of moderate and left-leaning dems that are pro 2A. The NRA is such a right-wing institution that these folks avoid it like the plague. Sites like TGO have so many loudmouth conservative spouting downright hateful speech about dems that you'll rarely have the opportunity to have a discussion about protecting 2A with people who actually have the ability to sway other moderate dems.

2A is NOT the property of conservatives and yet that is EXACTLY how many republicans act. The thing is, I don't think many conservatives really care about PROTECTING 2A as much as COMPLAINING about liberals.

I make it a point to have one positive discussion per day with an open minded democrat. We don't often see eye-to-eye when the conversation is over but I know they leave with a little bit more knowledge than they started with. What I DON'T do is belittle them about their political affiliation and speak of their alleged inferiority. (if your response is that you don't know any open-minded dems, please don't bother responding at all. You're part of the problem but too stupid to realize it)

I'm tiring of firearm enthusiast websites who's front page of recent posts are over 50% political whining without some objective thinking.

I want to be a part of this community but my patience is wearing thin with a lot of you. I'm hear to learn and share experiences but my willingness to be a positive participant at TGO is almost gone.

Edit:
My repsonce here could have just as easily been posted in any of the recent rash of anti-liberal, reactionary threads of late. It is not directed at BrazilNuts or any one person in particular.
[/quote]

Well... I don't think making a post lecturing everyone is going to do you any favors. Sure, TGO has a lot of loud mouths, partisans, and people of diminished mental capacity, but so does every forum on the web. Personally, I think David and the moderators do a great job with this site. It is certainly better than other forums I have been on.

Instead of whining and shouting about the forum and threatening to leave if it doesn't change to your standards, become a more active participant. If you don't like certain posts or threads, don't click on them. If someone disagrees with you or they are being belligerent, ignore them. It is simple as that.

BTW, the reason over 50% (as you stated) of recent posts are of a political nature is because we are in an election year and just had an election. Give it a month or so, and I am sure it will decrease rather rapidly.

[jgradyc]

My late aunt nailed this 10 years ago. She was as conservative as any person I've ever met, but she said this. "Republicans need to drop this whole abortion issue. Too many people are one-issue voters."

Tuesday, Romney lost the single women vote... 68% voted for Obama. The analysts won't have the numbers projected until December, but that's literally millions of voters.

[Steelharp]

We have to come to a sad realization; America is a "fast food, MTV" society. The Republican party still wants to believe and hold fast to the idea that the same generation that has downloaded and stolen music for 20+ years has integrity and brains to care about issues. The Dems have figured out and accepted the stupidity that our populace is sinking into, and knows how to play it to their advantage. We still think Cronkite and Huntley & Brinkley set a standard for news that remains. Now, it's entertainment news; Colbert, et al. Unless we become more facetious, we will continue to do poorly.

[wcsc12]

[quote name='Steelharp' timestamp='1352480217' post='842512']
We have to come to a sad realization; America is a "fast food, MTV" society. The Republican party still wants to believe and hold fast to the idea that the same generation that has downloaded and stolen music for 20+ years has integrity and brains to care about issues. The Dems have figured out and accepted the stupidity that our populace is sinking into, and knows how to play it to their advantage. We still think Cronkite and Huntley & Brinkley set a standard for news that remains. Now, it's entertainment news; Colbert, et al. Unless we become more facetious, we will continue to do poorly.
[/quote]

Wow....

[quote name='Razz' timestamp='1352476684' post='842475']
Here's a news flash that I would REALLY like to see some attention paid:

There are a ton of moderate and left-leaning dems that are pro 2A. The NRA is such a right-wing institution that these folks avoid it like the plague. Sites like TGO have so many loudmouth conservative spouting downright hateful speech about dems that you'll rarely have the opportunity to have a discussion about protecting 2A with people who actually have the ability to sway other moderate dems.

2A is NOT the property of conservatives and yet that is EXACTLY how many republicans act. The thing is, I don't think many conservatives really care about PROTECTING 2A as much as COMPLAINING about liberals.

I make it a point to have one positive discussion per day with an open minded democrat. We don't often see eye-to-eye when the conversation is over but I know they leave with a little bit more knowledge than they started with. What I DON'T do is belittle them about their political affiliation and speak of their alleged inferiority. (if your response is that you don't know any open-minded dems, please don't bother responding at all. You're part of the problem but too stupid to realize it)

I'm tiring of firearm enthusiast websites who's front page of recent posts are over 50% political whining without some objective thinking.

I want to be a part of this community but my patience is wearing thin with a lot of you. I'm hear to learn and share experiences but my willingness to be a positive participant at TGO is almost gone.

Edit:
My repsonce here could have just as easily been posted in any of the recent rash of anti-liberal, reactionary threads of late. It is not directed at BrazilNuts or any one person in particular.
[/quote]

Well said. I just avoid every political post or when I look through, I actually try to hope it's informative but it's pretty much the same "The liberal media" and "stupid liberals" and bash after bash at just "liberals". No offense but I know plenty of republicans that didn't vote for Romney. Does that make them liberal or did they just not like his views or platform. Eh...it's a losing argument though.

The best thing to do is just avoid the posts and stick to talks entirely about firearms. I mean, that's why we all look at this site right? Edited November 9, 2012 by wcsc12

[Guest Razz]

First, I don't lecture. I may rant to let off steam but all of you are big boys and can give and take as you wish.

Second, it is a very rare occasion that you see a different opinion from the hive mind around here, so when you see an opposing opinion it's easy to take more harshly than intended. I am merely questioning the goals of some members. You completely ignored that with your lecture to me.

Third, the moderators of this site are as good and better than almost anywhere I've seen. I never called that into question.

Fourth, nobody cares if I continue participation or move along. I could stop posting tomorrow and nobody would notice. I'm ok with that. If TGO wants one opinion about the way the firearm community exists, I'm ok with that too. If you really want 2A to remain unharmed, try inclusion into the boys club instead of constant bashing.

Fifth, relax, take a deep breath and realize that you can read a post and use a calm tone for the OP's voice. It's amazing how differently things come across. Projection is a powerful thing.

[Daniel]

[quote name='Razz' timestamp='1352476684' post='842475']
[b]Here's a news flash that I would REALLY like to see some attention paid:

There are a ton of moderate and left-leaning dems that are pro 2A. The NRA is such a right-wing institution that these folks avoid it like the plague. Sites like TGO have so many loudmouth conservative spouting downright hateful speech about dems that you'll rarely have the opportunity to have a discussion about protecting 2A with people who actually have the ability to sway other moderate dems.[/b]

[b]2A is NOT the property of conservatives and yet that is EXACTLY how many republicans act. The thing is, I don't think many conservatives really care about PROTECTING 2A as much as COMPLAINING about liberals.[/b]

I make it a point to have one positive discussion per day with an open minded democrat. We don't often see eye-to-eye when the conversation is over but I know they leave with a little bit more knowledge than they started with. What I DON'T do is belittle them about their political affiliation and speak of their alleged inferiority. (if your response is that you don't know any open-minded dems, please don't bother responding at all. You're part of the problem but too stupid to realize it)

I'm tiring of firearm enthusiast websites who's front page of recent posts are over 50% political whining without some objective thinking.

I want to be a part of this community but my patience is wearing thin with a lot of you. I'm hear to learn and share experiences but my willingness to be a positive participant at TGO is almost gone.

Edit:
My repsonce here could have just as easily been posted in any of the recent rash of anti-liberal, reactionary threads of late. It is not directed at BrazilNuts or any one person in particular.
[/quote]
I struggle with this as well. I am obviously not going anywhere but we used to have several Pro 2A Democrats and a moderator who was active locally but none come here anymore as they are badgered for having an opposing view. I try to stay light and not take a lot of this stuff seriously.

[Oh Shoot]

Romney lost because the demographics and opinion on issues of those demographics are changing.

BHO got big majority vote of women, blacks, Hispanics, and gays.

The only major demographic Mitt won was white men, but only 48% of all white voters.

Hispanics will be at least one third of US population by 2050. The majority are Christian (mostly Catholic to boot), family oriented, and hard workers. That sounds like a Republican base -- so when the GOP can't win that demographic, the party needs to do some real soul searching as to what it is really all about.

- OS

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Republicans lost this time because they lost their way and they compromised on issues. Some issues, like was
mentioned, abortion, don't have to be mentioned on platforms, nor does immigration reform. A true, clear message
from constitutional roots, economic stability and a vision for showing America a good future is all the message
needs. Wars on women, health care and the like should be sidestepped and the party should be consistent.

People like Akin and Mourdock lost because of personal views that were poorly said and shouldn't have been made.
Both were conservatives and could have won. The party rejected and sealed their fate. Romney lost because he
didn't engage enough during the debates and elsewhere. Democrats knew how to play the game to their advantage.
They know how to win. Republicans accept compromise too much. Reagan was the last candidate who went around
the media and to the public. He is a rare breed of candidates and we didn't have enough of one. I think Romney's
handlers thought he should just coast his way to winning after the first debate. Always stay in the fight to the end.

We had a fight for second place. That's not good enough.

Mac, it was demographics, but it was also because we weren't well in the fight. Winning a battle takes resolve. We
didn't have it.

[Daniel]

Im really tired of hearing about Reagan.

[mav]

[quote name='Razz' timestamp='1352480679' post='842519']
First, I don't lecture. I may rant to let off steam but all of you are big boys and can give and take as you wish.

Second, it is a very rare occasion that you see a different opinion from the hive mind around here, so when you see an opposing opinion it's easy to take more harshly than intended. I am merely questioning the goals of some members. You completely ignored that with your lecture to me.

Third, the moderators of this site are as good and better than almost anywhere I've seen. I never called that into question.

Fourth, nobody cares if I continue participation or move along. I could stop posting tomorrow and nobody would notice. I'm ok with that. If TGO wants one opinion about the way the firearm community exists, I'm ok with that too. If you really want 2A to remain unharmed, try inclusion into the boys club instead of constant bashing.

Fifth, relax, take a deep breath and realize that you can read a post and use a calm tone for the OP's voice. It's amazing how differently things come across. Projection is a powerful thing.
[/quote]

Hmmm, let's see. You said you that you rant or let off steam. You also used caps in your original post, which indicates shouting. I am the one who needs to relax and take a deep breath? I don't see that one, but okay.

As far as the 2A goes, I don't really see it as a right or left issue. If statists, which are present in both parties although they more numerous on the left, have their way, we will see an errosion of the 2A.

[monkeylizard]

Don't discount the very rough GOP primary. BHO didn't have to campaign against Romney that much. The other GOP hopefuls (and in some case Mitt himself) did that for him before the convention.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

[quote name='Daniel' timestamp='1352484460' post='842557']
Im really tired of hearing about Reagan.
[/quote]Good for you.

[Major Kong]

[quote name='Razz' timestamp='1352476684' post='842475']
Here's a news flash that I would REALLY like to see some attention paid:

There are a ton of moderate and left-leaning dems that are pro 2A. The NRA is such a right-wing institution that these folks avoid it like the plague. Sites like TGO have so many loudmouth conservative spouting downright hateful speech about dems that you'll rarely have the opportunity to have a discussion about protecting 2A with people who actually have the ability to sway other moderate dems.

[b]For now we still have the freedom to choose. If the NRA is too right wing, don't join it. Simple. Loudmouth conservatives spouting "hateful speech", block them so you don't get offended.[/b]

2A is NOT the property of conservatives and yet that is EXACTLY how many republicans act. The thing is, I don't think many conservatives really care about PROTECTING 2A as much as COMPLAINING about liberals.

[b]Yes, because complaining is definitely reserved for the conservatives. Are you the pot or the kettle in this scenario?[/b]

I make it a point to have one positive discussion per day with an open minded democrat. We don't often see eye-to-eye when the conversation is over but I know they leave with a little bit more knowledge than they started with. What I DON'T do is belittle them about their political affiliation and speak of their alleged inferiority. (if your response is that you don't know any open-minded dems, please don't bother responding at all. You're part of the problem but too stupid to realize it)

[b]I don't seek people out for conversation based on their political leanings. I'll talk to anyone, I'm open minded [/b][b] [/b]

I'm tiring of firearm enthusiast websites who's front page of recent posts are over 50% political whining without some objective thinking.

[b]See Mav's post. What the hell are you expecting the week of the election? Why not turn off your computer for a few days if the political posts are bothering you?[/b]

I want to be a part of this community but my patience is wearing thin with a lot of you. I'm hear to learn and share experiences but my willingness to be a positive participant at TGO is almost gone.

[b]If you think there's a better firearms community on the web I encourage you to find it. [/b]

[b]Also, in a later post in this thread you criticize the "hive mind" around here. Would you levy the same criticism on a gay/lesbian website that was overwhelmingly Democratic? While no one is questioning that there are pro-2A liberals there are many more pro-2A conservatives.[/b]

[/quote]

[Guest ThePunisher]

[quote name='Daniel' timestamp='1352484460' post='842557']
Im really tired of hearing about Reagan.
[/quote]

Then I guess you are an intolerant democrat.

[Mark@Sea]

NRA is a single issue organization. They will and have endorsed democrats over republicans based on their attitude and votes for or against 2A. How does this make them right wing extremists?

Romney lost for a couple of reasons - primarily because of the mainstream media covering for him on a dozen or more serious issues, and secondarily because he hasn't previously been a great friend of conservatism.

You can avoid the political threads, you can bring something more to the table (something besides insults, strawmen, and whining) or you can find another forum. The thinning of your patience (or skin) is your problem, not mine. Edited November 9, 2012 by Mark@Sea

[Guest ThePunisher]

Pro-2nd Amendment democrat! Now that's an novel concept; why would you be a democrat since it's the democrats that want to take away your guns and gun rights? Edited November 9, 2012 by ThePunisher

[Links2k]

[quote name='OhShoot' timestamp='1352482808' post='842545']
Romney lost because the demographics and opinion on issues of those demographics are changing.

BHO got big majority vote of women, blacks, Hispanics, and gays.

The only major demographic Mitt won was white men, but only 48% of all white voters.

Hispanics will be at least one third of US population by 2050. The majority are Christian (mostly Catholic to boot), family oriented, and hard workers. That sounds like a Republican base -- so when the GOP can't win that demographic, the party needs to do some real soul searching as to what it is really all about.

- OS
[/quote]

You left out blacks. If you leave out the part of the black community that simply doesn't care about anything, the majority of blacks are very conservative in their thinking. As was said on Rush's show yesterday the problem with the republican party is that most blacks view it as a party of racist. On any given day, that segment of the community can come on here and at least one idiot will verify that opinion. It's a matter of being guilty by association. It's not right, but it occurs. It's the same way that some here can't bring their mind to believe that there are honest, hard working, patriotic blacks.

As someone said earlier, it's about perception.

[strickj]

At the risk of being cussed out again....

There's nothing that the GOP could have done to win the presidency. Romney was just a horrible politician.
He left the MA economy in ruins. He signed into law the largest and most sweeping piece of anti-gun legislation in history. Obamacare is nothing more than Romneycare rebranded.
And worst of all, he lied about all of this as if it never happened. He said his AWB was a pro-gun law. He denied Ocare as being the same as Rcare, after boasting about it just a year or so ago.
He was simply doomed to fail from the get go.

As far as what the GOP can do in the future;
They desperately need to drop the religious policies and that can be evidenced by Tuesday's results.
They lost the 'wemens vote because of birth control and abortion.
They lost votes because of gays.
They lost votes because of "self deportation".
Locally, best I can tell, every blue law that went up for vote lost in TN and GA. People are simply tiered of the church controlling Sunday booze.

the idea that a "true Conservative with conservative values" can run on these policies and win is a thing of the past.

[Links2k]

[quote name='6.8 AR' timestamp='1352484172' post='842555']
Republicans lost this time because they lost their way and they compromised on issues. Some issues, like was
mentioned, abortion, don't have to be mentioned on platforms, nor does immigration reform. A true, clear message
from constitutional roots, economic stability and a vision for showing America a good future is all the message
needs. Wars on women, health care and the like should be sidestepped and the party should be consistent.

People like Akin and Mourdock lost because of personal views that were poorly said and shouldn't have been made.
Both were conservatives and could have won. The party rejected and sealed their fate. Romney lost because he
didn't engage enough during the debates and elsewhere. Democrats knew how to play the game to their advantage.
They know how to win. Republicans accept compromise too much. Reagan was the last candidate who went around
the media and to the public. He is a rare breed of candidates and we didn't have enough of one. I think Romney's
handlers thought he should just coast his way to winning after the first debate. Always stay in the fight to the end.

We had a fight for second place. That's not good enough.

Mac, it was demographics, but it was also because we weren't well in the fight. Winning a battle takes resolve. We
didn't have it.
[/quote]

I agree with you. Some things did not have to be mentioned. Present the facts on the economy and national security, make Obama defend his record, leave the silliness behind and Mitt would be preparing to take the oath in January.

[Links2k]

[quote name='monkeylizard' timestamp='1352485628' post='842564']
Don't discount the very rough GOP primary. BHO didn't have to campaign against Romney that much. The other GOP hopefuls (and in some case Mitt himself) did that for him before the convention.
[/quote]

True. He had to know that his words would be used against him.

[Links2k]

[quote name='ThePunisher' timestamp='1352488259' post='842591']
Pro-2nd Amendment democrat! Now that's an novel concept; why would you be a democrat since it's the democrats that want to take away your guns and gun rights?
[/quote]

My guess would be for the same reasons that there are so many different denominations of Christians. Pro 2A democrats share a similar belief as conservatives on one issue, opinions differ on other issues.

[Worriedman]

[quote name='ThePunisher' timestamp='1352488259' post='842591']
Pro-2nd Amendment democrat! Now that's an novel concept; why would you be a democrat since it's the democrats that want to take away your guns and gun rights?
[/quote]

Will have to take exception to this line of reasoning, at least in reference to Tennessee politicians. In the last General Assembly, Rep. Eddie Bass was as supportive of 2nd Amendment issues as any Republican. Ben West was arguably the most conservative member of the House while he was in office. Doug Jackson carried the Restaurant Bill both times in the Senate.

Republicans with their hands stuck out to Fed Ex killed the Parking Lot Bill last year, and the one before.

Lt. Gov. Ramsey shook my hand, looked me in the eye in September of this year, promised it would get passed in the 2013 session, and it will not, again.

Republicans have not been supportive of your Right to keep a weapon in your personal property for your use in defending yourself (even though the State Constitution demands that you be able to, and our Supreme Court has ruled that we have that political Right) nor does it appear that they ever will be again, as long as Haslam, Alexander and Harwell are swapping off wheel duty at the helm of State.

[mav]

[quote name='6.8 AR' timestamp='1352484172' post='842555'] A true, clear message
from constitutional roots, economic stability and a vision for showing America a good future is all the message
needs. [/quote]

I agree with you completely AR. The sad thing is that we did have a candidate that had an unwavering stance on those very issues. Unfortunately he and anyone who supported him was ridiculed and mocked even during the primaries.

I know I am gonna be laughed at or worse here, but I honestly believe that the Republicans need to shift more towards the Paul side of the camp. All of this neoconservatism has been disastrous.