Wanted to share this great quip from Sam Adams

[leroy]

[img]http://moonbattery.com/samuel-adams.jpg[/img]

This is pretty much how i feel about what's goin on in view of the recent election:

[quote]....“Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” ....[url="http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/3590"]—Samuel Adams[/url][/quote]

Ole Sam wuz right. Let's salute him

Link here: http://moonbattery.com/?p=20667.

leroy

[ttocswob]

Amen

[jcoosi]

That is just part of the quote the whole quote which I have memorized is.Sam Adams is one of my favorite Founding Fathers

"If ye desire wealth more than liberity,the tranquility of servitude over the animating contest of freedom--then go from us in peace.We seek not your consels or arms.Crouch down and lick the hand which feeds you,may your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Edited November 9, 2012 by jcoosi

[gregintenn]

Where are the leaders of this caliber today?

[walton6467]

[quote name='gregintenn' timestamp='1352471855' post='842418']
Where are the leaders of this caliber today?
[/quote]

We don't have leaders like that today, because today's society values appearance and how white someone's teeth are over their intelligence. There are lots of smart people out there who would make great leaders, but they can't be because they aren't pretty enough. At least not in this country.

[JayC]

I'm not sure you understand what that quote means?

It's aimed at people like you, not the 'people' that re-elected the village idiot because he will give them free stuff.

It's meant to call fence sitters what they are, cowards. And make no mistake we're all fence sitters....

We're happy to accept wealth over liberty, we're happy to accept tranquility of slavery over a contest of freedom... We continue to lick the hand the feeds us, and hope the chains sit lightly on us.

We are the people who this founding father was referring to in this quote. We sit idle and look the other way while very bad things are done in our name to our fellow citizens. And we sit here hoping and praying for some politicians to save us...

Samuel Adams was a great founding father, he knew how to say pointed things that were true... His comments are still very valid today, but make no mistake, if he were alive today, those comments would not be pointed at the 'loyalists' who voted for our current 'leader', but at us who are sitting on the fence complaining about it.

[quote name='leroy' timestamp='1352467249' post='842376']
[img]http://moonbattery.com/samuel-adams.jpg[/img]

This is pretty much how i feel about what's goin on in view of the recent election:



Ole Sam wuz right. Let's salute him

Link here: [url="http://moonbattery.com/?p=20667."]http://moonbattery.com/?p=20667.[/url]

leroy
[/quote]

[MattCary]

Sam would be getting the Tar and Feathers ready.

[Worriedman]

JayC, you may count yourself in that number, (as a fence sitter), but having walked the halls of Congress, (where I can remember seeing less than 10 Tennesseans in favor of any firearms issue) and spent my money to fund good candidates and then go and walk the districts to talk with the voters, I will not wear that moniker.

Another of Sam's famous quote you can see at the bottom of every post I make, and I believe it with all my heart. I do not like the way things are going in my country, but I lay down at night and sleep, because I have done everything I could to succor a future of as much Liberty as possible for my grand children.

[stick1]

Thats what I ve been tryin to tell some TNGO s on another post, but sadly they are modern day boot-lickers.

[leroy]

[quote name='JayC' timestamp='1352476356' post='842473']
I'm not sure you understand what that quote means?

It's aimed at people like you, not the 'people' that re-elected the village idiot because he will give them free stuff.

It's meant to call fence sitters what they are, cowards. And make no mistake we're all fence sitters....

We're happy to accept wealth over liberty, we're happy to accept tranquility of slavery over a contest of freedom... We continue to lick the hand the feeds us, and hope the chains sit lightly on us.

We are the people who this founding father was referring to in this quote. We sit idle and look the other way while very bad things are done in our name to our fellow citizens. And we sit here hoping and praying for some politicians to save us...

Samuel Adams was a great founding father, he knew how to say pointed things that were true... His comments are still very valid today, but make no mistake, if he were alive today, those comments would not be pointed at the 'loyalists' who voted for our current 'leader', but at us who are sitting on the fence complaining about it.
[/quote]

Jay: I'm all for "self assessment"; and i think its ok and even proper to do some soul searchin and self evaluation. Havin said all that; I dont know that after the "evaluation" you are in a position to call folks (...other than you...) out as "...people like you...". At the minimum, I would recommend that you give folks the benefit of the doubt seein as ya dont know whether they are "....down for the stuggle..." or a pinko commie statist operative in drag. I'm all for you thinkin that you are one of the "fence sitters" and "cowards" if ya want to. It's even ok to even think that others are "sittin on the fence" and "cowards" too; but the way i see things; it aint your business to call them out publically. Remember, that self-evaluation includes you; not you and everyone else. I'm ok with you publishin the results on "you" but not on "....you and me....".

The way i see things right now, i think ya could use a Dale Carnege course on winnin friends and influencin people. I can tell ya (...in my case at least...) this aint the way to do it. If you are into shockin folks; it might work out; but ya need to remember that some folks dont take kindly to bein called out by others who they dont know on a personal basis. I can also understand and can identify with ya bein a bit upset about what has happened in the election; and in the downward course this country has taken in general over the past few hundred years. That doesnt mean that i think ya ought to pick a fight with folks that pretty well see things the way you do and are tryin to help in their own small way.

I wuz simply postin what my take on all this is; not cruzin for a lecture and a bit of name callin from someone i dont know. Ya might want to consider the possibility that there are folks with a bit of forebearance that may be somehere on the continuum of movin to change the system from within. I dont know that im ready to take up my rifle just yet; nor would i advise anyone else to take them up either. In the American Revolution, the "changin from within" thing didnt work out too well; and folks like Sam Adams took their rifles up. I happen to think that the jury is out on this one, and everybody aint made their minds up yet.

leroy

[JayC]

[quote name='Worriedman' timestamp='1352479744' post='842505']
JayC, you may count yourself in that number, (as a fence sitter), but having walked the halls of Congress, (where I can remember seeing less than 10 Tennesseans in favor of any firearms issue) and spent my money to fund good candidates and then go and walk the districts to talk with the voters, I will not wear that moniker.

Another of Sam's famous quote you can see at the bottom of every post I make, and I believe it with all my heart. I do not like the way things are going in my country, but I lay down at night and sleep, because I have done everything I could to succor a future of as much Liberty as possible for my grand children.
[/quote]

Worried,

As my post said, I'm just as guilt of being a fence sitter as the rest of the people reading this forum. I too have met with both of my legislators on a regular basis about TN firearm laws (among other things), I've donated my time and experience to local state firearms organizations, and contributed money....

But, Samuel wasn't talking about going around and talking in this quote... He was advocating open rebellion to tyranny, which I'm guessing neither of us have taken part in.

[JayC]

I'm sorry Leroy, but I'm not trying to 'win friends' and influence people on an internet forum. My point is that I believe you're taking the quote completely out of context.

I made some assumptions in my post, first that you're not happy about the results of the current election, and feel the government is becoming the hand that people are licking, and the chains which rest softly on our backs... that people are unknowingly voting for this... correct me if I'm wrong.

My point is that quote was not aimed at 'loyalist' who knowingly asks to be ruled over... but was directly pointed at fence sitters, who were unwilling to stand up, because it would cost their wealth, or tranquility.... I'm not picking a fight... I'm just pointing out that we are the crowd that Samuel was speaking to when he said those words, not to 'loyalists' who wanted to be ruled by the crown.

As for Samuel Adams and taking up arms again tyranny, we're well past the point they had given up 'changing the system from within' when he spoke these words... he was speaking to those who wanted to try and find a peaceful solution to the problem, to continue to work within the 'system'...

So in closing, I stand by my point, we're all fence sitters that Samuel Adams was speaking of... we see the way our government is abusing us, violating God given rights... yet we continue to try to 'compromise' and 'work from within the system'... instead of meeting violent force with violent force.

I've not picked up my rifle either, and not that I'm asking but I suspect virtually all of the people visiting this forum haven't either... all I'm saying is IMHO this quote today would be directed at us, calling us out for our timid response to tyranny we see daily... and our founding fathers would have long ago taken up arms against our current form of government.

It's not meant as a personal insult, just an observation that this quote is not meant for the people who voted for Obama, but meant for the rest of us who accept the tyranny of the majority.

[quote name='leroy' timestamp='1352490622' post='842609']
Jay: I'm all for "self assessment"; and i think its ok and even proper to do some soul searchin and self evaluation. Havin said all that; I dont know that after the "evaluation" you are in a position to call folks (...other than you...) out as "...people like you...". At the minimum, I would recommend that you give folks the benefit of the doubt seein as ya dont know whether they are "....down for the stuggle..." or a pinko commie statist operative in drag. I'm all for you thinkin that you are one of the "fence sitters" and "cowards" if ya want to. It's even ok to even think that others are "sittin on the fence" and "cowards" too; but the way i see things; it aint your business to call them out publically. Remember, that self-evaluation includes you; not you and everyone else. I'm ok with you publishin the results on "you" but not on "....you and me....".

The way i see things right now, i think ya could use a Dale Carnege course on winnin friends and influencin people. I can tell ya (...in my case at least...) this aint the way to do it. If you are into shockin folks; it might work out; but ya need to remember that some folks dont take kindly to bein called out by others who they dont know on a personal basis. I can also understand and can identify with ya bein a bit upset about what has happened in the election; and in the downward course this country has taken in general over the past few hundred years. That doesnt mean that i think ya ought to pick a fight with folks that pretty well see things the way you do and are tryin to help in their own small way.

I wuz simply postin what my take on all this is; not cruzin for a lecture and a bit of name callin from someone i dont know. Ya might want to consider the possibility that there are folks with a bit of forebearance that may be somehere on the continuum of movin to change the system from within. I dont know that im ready to take up my rifle just yet; nor would i advise anyone else to take them up either. In the American Revolution, the "changin from within" thing didnt work out too well; and folks like Sam Adams took their rifles up. I happen to think that the jury is out on this one, and everybody aint made their minds up yet.

leroy
[/quote] Edited November 9, 2012 by JayC

[leroy]

Jay. I understand the point and it is well taken. Some things to consider: Samuel Adams staked this life, liberty, and personal fortune to help found this country. He and his associates succeeded in whupping the the superpower of his day; creating the country that everybody admires, wants to come to, and be a part of for over 200 years. All that happened between 1776 and 1784. Samuel Adams and folks like him handed us the greatest country that had ever existed. For that i am, indeed, thankful.

I can accept the argument that Sam would not recognize nor approve of what is goin on (....and, in fact, has gone on in this country since 1861....) since this country's founding. Havin said all that, im not sure that you can compare then with now.

Then, the British were running rough shod over the populace, taking their arms, confiscating their property, quartering troops in their houses, and tellin them they better like it or else. No one is doin that today. I will grant that government in some places is encroaching on personal liberty and picking the pockets of the producers in this country. What happened in British colonial times is a far cry from what is goin on in this country today. No one is comming to your door to kick your door down, take your stuff, or ravish your wife while wearing the uniform of the united states. No one has come to take your brothers and sisters away and impress them into military service (...in the last few years, anyway....). No one is comming to disarm you. I will grant that they would like to; but i doubt they will. To me, at least, you simply cant compare what happened then with what is happening now. It aint the same thing.

We have had thoroughout the history of this country crooks, oppressors, and pickpockets in high political office. I predict that that situation will continue. It always has. It is, sadly, the nature of things. As i see things, its our job to try to fix this problem thru the vote.

This country has morphed into an empire that has the tendency to go around the globe and meddle in affairs it should never be involved in; and has been doin so ever since WW1. We have, in fact, become what Sam Adams and the founding fathers abhored. We are now citizens of the american empire. We are reaping the harvest of imposing our national will on others. Our country as it has been constituted and governed over the last hundred or so years looks nothin like i believe it was envisioned by the founding fathers. It may well be that we implode due to our own differences and selfishness. In the mean time, i think we should try to fix what we can. That fix has got to start by determining what is and is not the responsibility of government toward its citizens, its business, its national neighbors, and the individual states making up the union. What is right. What is wrong. The list goes on and on.

The fact is that there is no 'taking of quotes" out of context, because the context aint the same. We should, indeed, have serrious discussions as to how to fix these great problems. That is what we are doin here.

leroy

[JayC]

I agree Samuel Adams was a great founding father, and risked everything (long before 1776) to fight for God given rights, and liberty from tyrannical rule.

Sure things are completely different today... or are they?

Confiscation of property... not happening here? Kelo vs City of New London? civil forfeiture laws? Sackett vs EPA? No the government is taking out property the same way the British did, by hiding behind the 'law'.

Confiscation of firearms? not happening now? Katrina Gun Grab? ATF 'relaxing' due process standard for confiscations? No the government is trying to disarm us, and if Obama appoints 3 new justices in the next 4 years the Heller ruling is likely to be overturned.

You are right they are quartering troops in our homes... but as for the government and our wives and children? TSA groping anybody?

But, we can go one further... our President has murdered US citizens via executive order without the 'terrorist' even being charged with a crime, let alone found guilty.... His administration claims to be able to use the same legal theory on citizens within the US... Congress passed the NDAA last year authorizing indefinate detentions of US citizens by the military with no rights to an attorney or access to our court systems.

The Boston Tea Party was over a 10% tax on tea, we pay that here in TN for every good we purchase. Between local, state, and federal taxes... I'm paying 50+% of my income to the government, and I'm not rich, just a middle income American with a wife and a child.

I'm not suggesting anybody take up arms, but we all need to understand that we're way past the point our founding fathers were.

[quote name='leroy' timestamp='1352506018' post='842777']
Jay. I understand the point and it is well taken. Some things to consider: Samuel Adams staked this life, liberty, and personal fortune to help found this country. He and his associates succeeded in whupping the the superpower of his day; creating the country that everybody admires, wants to come to, and be a part of for over 200 years. All that happened between 1776 and 1784. Samuel Adams and folks like him handed us the greatest country that had ever existed. For that i am, indeed, thankful.

I can accept the argument that Sam would not recognize nor approve of what is goin on (....and, in fact, has gone on in this country since 1861....) since this country's founding. Havin said all that, im not sure that you can compare then with now.

Then, the British were running rough shod over the populace, taking their arms, confiscating their property, quartering troops in their houses, and tellin them they better like it or else. No one is doin that today. I will grant that government in some places is encroaching on personal liberty and picking the pockets of the producers in this country. What happened in British colonial times is a far cry from what is goin on in this country today. No one is comming to your door to kick your door down, take your stuff, or ravish your wife while wearing the uniform of the united states. No one has come to take your brothers and sisters away and impress them into military service (...in the last few years, anyway....). No one is comming to disarm you. I will grant that they would like to; but i doubt they will. To me, at least, you simply cant compare what happened then with what is happening now. It aint the same thing.

We have had thoroughout the history of this country crooks, oppressors, and pickpockets in high political office. I predict that that situation will continue. It always has. It is, sadly, the nature of things. As i see things, its our job to try to fix this problem thru the vote.

This country has morphed into an empire that has the tendency to go around the globe and meddle in affairs it should never be involved in; and has been doin so ever since WW1. We have, in fact, become what Sam Adams and the founding fathers abhored. We are now citizens of the american empire. We are reaping the harvest of imposing our national will on others. Our country as it has been constituted and governed over the last hundred or so years looks nothin like i believe it was envisioned by the founding fathers. It may well be that we implode due to our own differences and selfishness. In the mean time, i think we should try to fix what we can. That fix has got to start by determining what is and is not the responsibility of government toward its citizens, its business, its national neighbors, and the individual states making up the union. What is right. What is wrong. The list goes on and on.

The fact is that there is no 'taking of quotes" out of context, because the context aint the same. We should, indeed, have serrious discussions as to how to fix these great problems. That is what we are doin here.

leroy
[/quote]

[BrasilNuts]

[quote name='jcoosi' timestamp='1352471083' post='842407']
Sam Adams is one of my favorite Founding Fathers
[/quote]

Mine too.

His beer is awesome!

[leroy]

Jay: Final question(s): 1. You have stated that:"...we're way past the point our founding fathers were.....". I simply dont agree, so we need to agree to disagree on this one. 2. What should be done by the citizenry to correct this problem? This aint a trick or gotcha questiton. I'm vitally and genuinely interested in this one; as im shure that many others are here too.

leroy

[JayC]

1. I can agree to disagree, but even if you don't think we've crossed that line yet, you must admit it doesn't appear to be too far off?

2. The system has become so corrupted that it's virtually impossible to change it from within, the soap box and ballot box have failed to resolve this issue. The changes that do need to take place, are so unpopular because people have become so use to government help they can't imagine cutting the size of government.

I don't have a crystal ball, but I suspect that our current trend of borrowing and printing money we don't have will 'self correct' in the not so distance future. But, it will be bloody and nasty when the collapse starts to happen.

My outlook isn't very positive on this nation, not because there are a large chunk of takers in our country today who live off of wealth stolen from doers... but because the doers refuse to stand up and say no, and back up that not with violence if needed. But, again I'm a sunshine patriot just like everyone else.

My only hope is the current 20-30 something generation who seems to be waking up and realizing that the baby boomers are selling us into slavery, they may very well wake up and so no in such a way that it forces change, but again I seriously doubt that change with be peaceful in nature.

[quote name='leroy' timestamp='1352638022' post='843657']
Jay: Final question(s): 1. You have stated that:"...we're way past the point our founding fathers were.....". I simply dont agree, so we need to agree to disagree on this one. 2. What should be done by the citizenry to correct this problem? This aint a trick or gotcha questiton. I'm vitally and genuinely interested in this one; as im shure that many others are here too.

leroy
[/quote] Edited November 11, 2012 by JayC