Third party voting

[Sam1]

[IMG]http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff486/samgallagher/ScreenShot2012-11-07at44412PM.png[/IMG]

Couple of other states were extremely close if there would've been no third party candidates on the ballot. It's a shame so many of them refused to bend on any of their principles and held out... In the words of Rand Paul

[quote][color=#444444][font=arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif][size=3]The way I look at it is if you want the perfect candidate, the candidate that agrees with you 100% of the time, the only one is if you run yourself. So if you’re not actually running, you have to make a little bit of compromise with who you’re going to support.[/size][/font][/color][/quote]

[Spots]

I'm a pretty firm believer that the guys who threw away their vote on independents cost us the election. I'm not saying I love Romney, I'm just saying I hate Obama,

[Hozzie]

So you assume every single one of those votes would have went for Romney (even a vast majority)? Pretty optimistic.

I begrudgingly voted for Romney, but am not surprised Obama won. Like it or not, the electorate is changing and we are becoming the minority. This is democracy. You may not like it because you lost, but the process ran it's course and Obama won.

Time to move on and either be part of the solution or continue to be part of the problem. Edited November 7, 2012 by Hozzie

[TNcitizen22]

I think people will blame absolutely anyone they can to justify their anger that their man lost. I do not believe that even if independents voted for either a Republican or Democrat it would have made any difference. There were not enough independent votes in Ohio or Virginia to have made a difference one way or another. Those states still would have gone to Obama. Even if Romney won Florida, he still would have lost. Hell, Romney could have taken Ohio and Florida and STILL lost. If you want to hold on to a theory that independents cost Romney the election, go grab yourself a calculator and look at each individual states results. He lost, move on.

Furthermore, isn't it kind of... well, stupid, to be upset because people won't bend on their principles?

"Oh jeez, unlike me you won't bend on your principles, you actually have beliefs and ethics you wont sacrafice. Darn."

Forgive my rant, this is about the upteenth time I have heard this rhetoric today. Edited November 7, 2012 by TNcitizen22

[Sam1]

I'm not blaming Romney's loss on anyone (reread the post); had to listen for months from people screaming about the third party candidates and now we have the data showing how the refusal to compromise can affect an election. If you sort through the senate races, there are a good number of third party votes that also exceeded the variation between the Rep. and Dem. candidates.

[Hozzie]

Again, putting logic to it, IF there was no third party and every one of those persons voted, statistics would tell you that they would probably be split in the same percentage as those who did vote for either a republican or a democrat.

When you do the math, nothing changes. If you believe that 100% of the third party vote would have went to Romney, then no amount of reasoning will convince you otherwise.

[Chucktshoes]

So what you are saying is that want an enforced duopoly with only the approved parties allowed on the ballot? Hrmm, ok.

[TNcitizen22]

[quote name='Sam1' timestamp='1352330549' post='841411']
I'm not blaming Romney's loss on anyone (reread the post).
[/quote]

I understood what you were saying. I still read it as a statement of blame for both the candidates and the people who voted for them. Edited November 7, 2012 by TNcitizen22

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Last night was the last wake up call. It wasn't the third party voters who made it, either. It wasn't as much that or
Romney as the candidate. It was the lack of votes against Santa Clause and the rest of the people on the
government teat.

[Sam1]

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1352330959' post='841415']
So what you are saying is that want an enforced duopoly with only the approved parties allowed on the ballot? Hrmm, ok.
[/quote]

Nope, what I'm saying is the same exact thing Rand Paul was saying for weeks before the election. This same issue is going to happen next election, and the one after there will be candidates that will be lucky to get 1% of the vote, everyone that votes for them knows this and they still throw away the vote.

[RobertNashville]

At least according to Phil Valentine (I haven't checked his figures yet), Romney got fewer votes than McCain did in '08 meaning it appears that a lot of Republicans/conservatives/independents, etc. didn't show up (not that they voted for Johnson or some other candidate, they were simply missing in action).

I can understand people not being thrilled with Romany...I can understand why someone might vote for Johnson or a write-it (even though I don't agree with doing so) but I don't know that I can understand how those who would bother to vote for McCain, a decidedly uninspiring candidate four years ago, would not even bother to go to the polls this cycle to at least vote for [i][u]somebody[/u][/i]. Edited November 7, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Chucktshoes]

It seems like I have repeated this until I am blue in the face and folks like you just refuse to get it. Romney was never going to get my vote, nor the vote of any real Libertarian. Whenever you vote your conscience you are not throwing the vote away, no matter how impossible it is for your chosen candidate to win.

Romney was a terrible candidate who was on the wrong side of all of the civil liberty issues I was concerned with. From the NDAA, to the drone wars, Gitmo, drug laws and the Patriot Act Romney had the same stance as Obama on all these issues. Why on earth would I vote for him?

[Sam1]

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1352332771' post='841447']
Whenever you vote your conscience you are not throwing the vote away, no matter how impossible it is for your chosen candidate to win.
[/quote]

It's like having $10,000 in your pocket, riding a bicycle to the car lot and trying to buy a Ferrari. When they say you can't have a Ferrari for that much, but here's a new Z06 Corvette, you say no thanks, hop back on your bicycle and ride off.

[RobertNashville]

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1352332771' post='841447']
It seems like I have repeated this until I am blue in the face and folks like you just refuse to get it. Romney was never going to get my vote, nor the vote of any real Libertarian. Whenever you vote your conscience you are not throwing the vote away, no matter how impossible it is for your chosen candidate to win.

Romney was a terrible candidate who was on the wrong side of all of the civil liberty issues I was concerned with. From the NDAA, to the drone wars, Gitmo, drug laws and the Patriot Act Romney had the same stance as Obama on all these issues. Why on earth would I vote for him?
[/quote]if by "folks like you" you mean me then I don't get the purpose of your post or you clearly don't understand mine.

Edit: if you weren't referring to me then never mind.

Edited November 8, 2012 by RobertNashville

[Chucktshoes]

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1352333059' post='841451']if by "folks like you" you mean me then I don't get the purpose of your post or you clearly don't understand mine. [/quote]
It was directed specifically as Sam1, your post crept in while I was typing. I was under the impression that we had come to an understanding on where we were each coming from. If you want to include yourself in that group, feel free. No sweat off my nose, we have radically different worldviews that only occasionally appear superficially similar.

[Moped]

[quote name='Sam1' timestamp='1352332140' post='841434']
Nope, what I'm saying is the same exact thing Rand Paul was saying for weeks before the election. This same issue is going to happen next election, and the one after there will be candidates that will be lucky to get 1% of the vote, everyone that votes for them knows this and they still throw away the vote.
[/quote]

In my mind, it is throwing your vote away when you vote for someone that you don't agree with or like. I held my nose and voted for Romney yesterday, when I really wanted to vote for Gary Johnson. I did that in order to keep SCOTUS as 2nd amendment friendly as possible. Today I am regretting that decision, since Romney lost anyway. I see little difference between the two men or the two parties. Both are only out for power and could give a rats ass about this country. Both will gladly run it into the ground to keep the other from control.

[Sam1]

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1352333429' post='841458']
It was directed specifically as Sam1, your post crept in while I was typing. I was under the impression that we had come to an understanding on where we were each coming from. If you want to include yourself in that group, feel free. No sweat off my nose, we have radically different worldviews that only occasionally appear superficially similar.
[/quote]

Yes we both understand the other side, nothing wrong with discussing things... even getting into a heated debate. This is one of the few places where people usually remain civil even when arguing their fundamentals.

[RobertNashville]

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1352333429' post='841458']
It was directed specifically as Sam1, your post crept in while I was typing. I was under the impression that we had come to an understanding on where we were each coming from. If you want to include yourself in that group, feel free. No sweat off my nose, we have radically different worldviews that only occasionally appear superficially similar.[/quote] We're good – I just wasn't sure

[Oh Shoot]

And may I mention, FL has not finished counting vote even yet, so #1 may not be accurate.

- OS

[Chucktshoes]

[quote name='Sam1' timestamp='1352334241' post='841469']

Yes we both understand the other side, nothing wrong with discussing things... even getting into a heated debate. This is one of the few places where people usually remain civil even when arguing their fundamentals.[/quote]
Agreed. Much better than Facebook where relatives unfriend me because I won't cut them, or their candidate, any slack.

[Links2k]

[quote name='Moped' timestamp='1352334098' post='841468']

I see little difference between the two men or the two parties. Both are only out for power and could give a rats ass about this country. Both will gladly run it into the ground to keep the other from control.
[/quote]

That's how I see it. I'm also thrilled to see that the third party vote mattered somewhere.

[Erik88]

I'm only 24, most of you have been [u]voting[/u] longer than I've been [u]alive[/u] and I respect that. I'm a registered republican but as times goes on I find my views align more with the libertarian party. I disliked Romney from the beginning but I said all along I would vote for him just so we could beat Obama. I saw the importance of my vote here in Florida though it appears it didn't matter in the end.

I was genuinely excited yesterday waiting on the results but now that it's over I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth. If Romney is the BEST the GOP can come up with then they really have a lot to learn and should blame no one but themselves.

In 4 years if the GOP can't produce a better candidate I will not support them. I'm done with voting for someone just because they have a R next to their name. It's clearly not working. Edited November 8, 2012 by Erik88

[Sam1]

[quote name='Erik88' timestamp='1352335207' post='841481']
In 4 years if the GOP can't produce a better candidate I will not support them. I'm done with voting for someone just because they have a R next to their name. It's clearly not working.
[/quote]

I think that getting rid of the two party system will only increase the problems we already have, imagine having 25 different candidates, each one spending $10mil on advertising in a specific state. The election would be such a mess it would be beyond tolerable. What I think we need to start doing is working on the dismantling of the electoral college and if that was to ever happen, then we could come in and figure out a way to do a multiple party system (have no idea how to make it work though).

Until the electoral college circle jerk is fixed, two party system is about as best as we are gonna get.

[TMF]

Two reasons there will ALWAYS be only two parties running this place:

1. Pandering

2. Stupid people

[Mr. Brooks]

Personally I would love to see more states with Maine and Nebraska style electoral vote systems.