What I learned on Nov. 6th 2012

[Smith]

I've heard the arguments back and forth on the moral decline of our society, the Judeo-Christian ethic, whether or not we were founded on Religious principles, and whether we were a humanist secular nation or a Christian nation and up to this point it was mainly academic with pointers going in both directions. Last night I saw it quantified.

How any one could vote for and not see through a thinly cloaked avowed socialist who has proven that his ideology is divisive and destructive can only mean one of two things. Either Americans are not very bright or we have ceased to be a culture that looked out for his fellow man and are willing to burn it all to the ground as long as we get our Union pensions, welfare, cell phone, government checks, and healthcare,

Two things that became reality last night:
1. We are no longer a Judeo-Christian nation and govern by the principles of our founding fathers and documents.
2. The secular-humanist now outnumber the conservatives.

You can argue that these are good things, but every part of our society that is measurable would refute that claim. You can argue that we are progressing, yet every quantifiable measurement would deny that. We only have to look at the history of those who have gone before us in Germany, Russia, Italy, Greece, France, China, England, Spain ...........

Argue what you may, but the moral decline in America is now quantifiable and present. We have stripped the values of our founding from the highest levels of authority and this is what we have been left with.

This is not fatalist, but I propose we let the socialist have full economic control and let them finish what is unavoidable. By fighting it we only prolong the pain and suffering that is inevitable. When it is in ashes and the people cry out for redemption, we rebuild from the beginning, fresh and new.

My 2 cents or 1/2 cent once inflation catches up.

Edited November 7, 2012 by AK Guy

[Guest CCI]

Nov. 10 ??, did you mean the 6th!

[xRUSTYx]

[quote name='AK Guy' timestamp='1352322512' post='841305']
This is not fatalist, but I propose we let the socialist have full economic control and let them finish what is unavoidable. By fighting it we only prolong the pain and suffering that is inevitable. When it is in ashes and the people cry out for redemption, we rebuild from the beginning, fresh and new.
[/quote]

This is exactly what I have been stating for the past month. I prefer Obama continue to BURY this country - because unless America totally fails - Nothing will change. If Romney got elected, it would only prolong the inevitable. Atleast with OBummer at the head, the chances of it happening sooner rather than later is higher

[Smith]

[quote name='CCI' timestamp='1352322698' post='841307']
Nov. 10 ??, did you mean the 6th!
[/quote]

Haha, I was prophesying! Yeah, I meant 6th.

[FIRERESCUEO2]

I know many of us feel the same way, but I will never give up. I'll not quit the fight until my last dying breath. Our country and those who have in the past, and continue to fight for our rights and freedoms need every single one of us to stand and continue the fight. Never surrender!

[LI0NSFAN]

[quote name='FIRERESCUEO2' timestamp='1352324650' post='841341']
I know many of us feel the same way, but I will never give up. I'll not quit the fight until my last dying breath. Our country and those who have in the past, and continue to fight for our rights and freedoms need every single one of us to stand and continue the fight. Never surrender!
[/quote]I agree, I feel that giving up is like pissing on the graves of all those great men and women that died for our country.

[jtmaze]

I understand the line of thinking and find myself leaning that way sometime and then I think of all the work I have put in so that my children can have a better life not to mention the work my parents did so I could grow up to be a productive citizen. When the economy fails I will be one of the first to go due to failing health due to Type I diabetes and I will gladly go with gun in hand defending my families future.


JTM
Sent from my iPhone

[Guest HvyMtl]

We were never considered a Christian-Judeo nation, even by the Founding Fathers. See the Treaty of Tripoli, written in 1796, approved by the 2nd President, a certain John Adams.
See the treaty's article 11.
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Treaty_of_Tripoli_as_communicated_to_Congress_1797.png"]http://en.wikipedia....ngress_1797.png[/url]

This misconception is a more recent creation. Edited November 7, 2012 by HvyMtl

[Smith]

[quote name='HvyMtl' timestamp='1352325872' post='841359']
We were never considered a Christian-Judeo government, even by the Founding Fathers. See the Treaty of Tripoli, written in 1796, approved by the 2nd President, a certain John Adams.
See the treaty's article 11.
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Treaty_of_Tripoli_as_communicated_to_Congress_1797.png"]http://en.wikipedia....ngress_1797.png[/url]

This misconception is a more recent creation.
[/quote]

Yeah, we've been over that an I'm not proposing that being a Judeo-Christian nation constitutes an established religion or institution However, it is undeniable that we were founded on Judeo-Christian principles of law, freedom, ethic, and government. As we have openly moved to remove those foundations we have eroded the very fabric of individual freedom that gave this country it's stability and greatness. We no longer have a traditional work ethic, traditional family values, traditional understanding of societal responsibility, traditional values. Traditional=Judeo-Christian.

I hope people are honest enough to see that you can not remove our original foundation without destabilizing and destroying everything. You don't have to be a Christian to hold Judeo-Christian principles. The truth's are universal and not subject to one religion, but Christianity is subject to those truth's.That was proven in plain sight on Nov. 6th.

BTW - I don't see this as giving up. I see it like the prodigal son.

[atlas3025]

It is tempting to say let the lefties have it so we can start over...but we will lose our guns, freedom, and happiness in the meantime, and probably die before the rebuilding begins.

Its like a German-Jew lamenting in 1938 that he hopes Hitler gets his way so that society collapses and they can build a new unified Jew friendly Deutschland.

Did I just compare The Left to the Nazis? They are all totalitarians, so sure. I did. Edited November 7, 2012 by atlas3025

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Very good, AK Guy!

[Smith]

[quote name='atlas3025' timestamp='1352327640' post='841376']
It is tempting to say let the lefties have it so we can start over...but we will lose our guns, freedom, and happiness in the meantime, and probably die before the rebuilding begins.

Its like a German-Jew lamenting in 1938 that he hopes Hitler gets his way so that society collapses and they can build a new unified Jew friendly Deutschland.

Did I just compare The Left to the Nazis? They are all totalitarians, so sure. I did.
[/quote]

That's why i'm only giving them the economics, not giving in on the social side.

[daddyo]

I think we've lost the soul of our nation... permanently.

[Guest rebeldrummer]

One of the best posts in regards to the events that have recently transpired....

Well said AK Guy...well said

[Commando68]

Romney would have behaved for four years. The radical/socialist/statist/anti-colonial/community organizer will push the cloward piven strategy to destroy our economy and push the gun ban agenda. Rome is burning and the sheeple are worried about sports scores. We are headed for a storm. A bad one.

[Guest HvyMtl]

No, Romney was being handled by some of the same GOP handlers that controlled Dubya. Mitt would have been Dubya II, fighting a war in Ira[s]q[/s]n. We would have had the same type of SCOTUS candidates (Like a certian Chief Justice that burned us on Obamacare) same foreign policy, same terrable (proven worse than O's) handling of the economy (though, honestly most of that control resides with Congress, not the President), same uselessness.

O is bad, but I do not think he reaches the depths of Dubya bad.

What I learned: The GOP needs an enema.
It needs to cut the chaffe away, get rid of the direction it is flailing in, and get back to a more Libertarian principal. Mitt should have NEVER been an acceptable candidate for President. McCain was more realistic, and he was awful. 3 terrible Presidential candidates in a row (Dubya, McCain, Mitt) equals a party that needs a massive overhaul.

You need to check again, several Founding Fathers were not Christian, or Jewish. They based this new found experiment on other previous governments, such as the Romans (pre-existed Christianity) Athens, and the like. Ben Franklin was a Diest, and Diesm was a major factor in our Revolution. True, there was some influence from Jewish and Christian beliefs. Arguably, other religions impacted too. Confusionism? Yes, even Islamic governments may have had impact in the design. These were learned men. Intellectuals. They studied a lot of different things, and attempted to gleen the best of all governments preceeding, to create a better nation. Limiting to Christian-Judeo beliefs is not a true concept of this Nation's founding.

True, the majority of this nation is of the Christian Faith. To be more specific, Catholic. By default, you should be saying a Catholic nation. As they are the largest religious group, and therefore, have the most influence.

Socially, the US may have been Christian, Catholic, for the most part. But, all religions, even those most Christian faiths believe are not religions, are allowed here. (And several Christian faiths do not believe Mormanism is Christianity...)

So, what is the largest growing ethnicity? Hispanics. What is their primary religous standing? Catholic.

Oh, and perhaps we are more Christian than you think. Or do you not believe in, ""Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's," Matthew 22:21. Perhaps that is the deal, God not wanting you to concern yourself so much with worldy affairs over heavenly ones... Edited November 8, 2012 by HvyMtl

[Smith]

[quote name='HvyMtl' timestamp='1352348229' post='841645']No, Romney was being handled by some of the same GOP handlers that controlled Dubya. Mitt would have been Dubya II, fighting a war in Ira[s]q[/s]n. We would have had the same type of SCOTUS candidates (Like a certian Chief Justice that burned us on Obamacare) same foreign policy, same terrable (proven worse than O's) handling of the economy (though, honestly most of that control resides with Congress, not the President), same uselessness.

O is bad, but I do not think he reaches the depths of Dubya bad.

What I learned: The GOP needs an enema.
It needs to cut the chaffe away, get rid of the direction it is flailing in, and get back to a more Libertarian principal. Mitt should have NEVER been an acceptable candidate for President. McCain was more realistic, and he was awful. 3 terrible Presidential candidates in a row (Dubya, McCain, Mitt) equals a party that needs a massive overhaul.

You need to check again, several Founding Fathers were not Christian, or Jewish. They based this new found experiment on other previous governments, such as the Romans (pre-existed Christianity) Athens, and the like. Ben Franklin was a Diest, and Diesm was a major factor in our Revolution. True, there was some influence from Jewish and Christian beliefs. Arguably, other religions impacted too. Confusionism? Yes, even Islamic governments may have had impact in the design. These were learned men. Intellectuals. They studied a lot of different things, and attempted to gleen the best of all governments preceeding, to create a better nation. Limiting to Christian-Judeo beliefs is not a true concept of this Nation's founding.

True, the majority of this nation is of the Christian Faith. To be more specific, Catholic. By default, you should be saying a Catholic nation. As they are the largest religious group, and therefore, have the most influence.

Socially, the US may have been Christian, Catholic, for the most part. But, all religions, even those most Christian faiths believe are not religions, are allowed here. (And several Christian faiths do not believe Mormanism is Christianity...)

So, what is the largest growing ethnicity? Hispanics. What is their primary religous standing? Catholic.

Oh, and perhaps we are more Christian than you think. Or do you not believe in, ""Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's," Matthew 22:21. Perhaps that is the deal, God not wanting you to concern yourself so much with worldy affairs over heavenly ones...[/quote]
You're reinforcing my original point.
How in the world can you claim Bush was as bad or worse than Obama? What quantifiable measurement are you using? Economics? No. Welfare? No. Unemployment? No. natural resources/gas prices? No. Deficit spending? No. Supreme court oppoinments? Disappointing, but still no. Immigration? Closer but still.. No. Foreign policy? Bengazi...... Edited November 8, 2012 by AK Guy

[jonlisha]

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by jonlisha

[personDJ]

I don't know the answers but here is what I believe. The reason this country is in trouble and will fail is because a democery can never work. It never has and never will. It's just like play the board game monopoly. you play until someone has it all. Have you ever noticed in the game that the more one player get's the easer it is to get more and more and the faster they get more.

[Smith]

First, I never said we were founded on a specific religion. Judeo-Christian values is a very broad concept that includes all if the founding fathers root ideology even encompassing much of Islam. Deist included.
Secondly, I guess all the scriptures chiseled into all if our federal buildings and monuments, the ten commandments watching over most of the highest federal court, the fact that every president, senator, judge, and congressman is sworn in on the Bible, and"In God We Trust" marked all over our currency (just to name a few) are definite marks of a secular humanist society.

[Guest HvyMtl]

"You're reinforcing my original point.
How in the world can you claim Bush was as bad or worse than Obama? What quantifiable measurement are you using? Economics? No. Welfare? No. Unemployment? No. natural resources/gas prices? No. Deficit spending? No. Supreme court oppoinments? Disappointing, but still no. Immigration? Closer but still.. No. Foreign policy? Bengazi......"

Yes, Economics was worse under Bush, unless you forgot that Great Recession started in his term, and is still going on now. Welfare? Yes, though the times are still hard. Unemployment? Yes. Gas prices? Not controlled by the President, but controlled by the oil companies, invalid. Immigration? Yes, O has sent more home than Dubya ever did. Foreign policy? Yes. Ended Iraq war, ending Afghan war. Made the decision to kill Osama. Did not start a war over weapons of mass destruction. Particularly those which were non-existent.

But hey, do not believe me. I got info to back what I said up:

[img]http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/united-states-gdp-growth.png?s=gdp+cqoq&d1=20080101&d2=20121031[/img][img]http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/CP_Max_630_378.png[/img]

US stock markets performance during the Obama Administration...
[b]DOW in 01/20/2009: 7,949.09
DOW in 11/01/2012: 13,232.62
[color=#347c17]Rate of Return: 66.47% [/color]

S&P 500 in 01/20/2009: 805.22
S&P 500 in 11/01/2012: 1,427.59
[color=#347c17]Rate of Return: 77.29% [/color]

NASDAQ in 01/20/2009: 1,440.86
NASDAQ in 11/01/2012: 3,020.06
[color=#347c17]Rate of Return: 109.60% [/color][/b]


US stock markets performance since hitting the bottom on March 9th of 2009...
[b]DOW in 03/09/2009: 6,547.05
DOW in 11/01/2012: 13,232.62
[color=#347c17]Rate of Return: 102.12% [/color]

S&P 500 in 03/09/2009: 676.53
S&P 500 in 11/01/2012: 1,427.59
[color=#347c17]Rate of Return: 111.02% [/color]

NASDAQ in 03/09/2009: 1,268.64
NASDAQ in 11/01/2012: 3,020.06
[color=#347c17]Rate of Return: 138.05% [/color][/b]

[img]http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/9367/large/first_time_claims_nov._1.jpeg?1351774756[/img]

Comparing unemployment rate fluctuation between President Bush and President Obama.

[b]Bush[/b]
01/20/2001: 4.2%
01/20/2009: 7.8%
Unemployment Rate Change: 85.71% increase

[b]Obama[/b]
01/20/2009: 7.8%
Currently: 7.9%
Unemployment Rate Change: 1.28% increase


Comparing unemployment rate fluctuation when their budgets first took place

[b]Bush[/b]
01/01/2002: 5.7%
12/31/2009: 9.9%
Unemployment Rate Change: 73.68% increase

[b]Obama[/b]
01/01/2010: 9.9%
Currently: 7.9%
Unemployment Rate Change: 20.20% decrease

[img]http://media.ycharts.com/charts/39b026c101c22b829d3ed3556db5d0bc.png[/img][img]http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/galleries/2012/news/economy/1206/gallery.Obama-economy/images/chart-unemployment-rate-100512.gif[/img]

[url="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128826285"]http://www.npr.org/t...oryId=128826285[/url]

"In fact, the federal government under President Obama has steadily increased the deportation of illegal immigrants. The Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency says it's on track to expel some 400,000 people this year, 8 percent more than 2008 — the last year of the Bush administration."


Remember: Always look for information. Never believe what the propaganda says. Always, look for what is actual, factual, and backed up by facts. Do not assume any political party has your best interests at heart.

If it is on the internet, it must be true... Edited November 8, 2012 by HvyMtl

[Guest cardcutter]

[quote name='AK Guy' timestamp='1352322512' post='841305']
I propose we let the socialist have full economic control and let them finish what is unavoidable. By fighting it we only prolong the pain and suffering that is inevitable. When it is in ashes and the people cry out for redemption, we rebuild from the beginning, fresh and new.
[/quote]

For two very important reasons.
1. Once it is gone it will never be regained.
Think of the genteal customs of the old south. after the war all the money in the world could not bring it back.
2. This will be fought here amongst us. This is not Spain or Greece we are talking about. It will be painful and hurt our families and friends. Our children will know nothing of they way we were raised.They will know hunger and want.

I don't know about you but I don't like the thought of my daughter and granddaughter having to go through the great depression 2.0 Edited November 8, 2012 by cardcutter

[Smith]

I agree but it appears inevitable. I'd rather me be here to go through it with my kids then leaving them or their children to do our work.
Not real exciting either way.

Edited November 8, 2012 by AK Guy

[Guest Lester Weevils]

[quote name='AK Guy' timestamp='1352322512' post='841305']
Two things that became reality last night:
1. We are no longer a Judeo-Christian nation and govern by the principles of our founding fathers and documents.
2. The secular-humanist now outnumber the conservatives.
[/quote]

Hi AK

Well, I'm not religious and don't care whether the nation is Judeo-Christian. I read that the majority of our population is still religious in some kind of judeo-christian fashion. Just doesn't matter to me one way or t'other.

However you seem to make implicit assumption that the judeo-christian god is a republican. It is possible to read the bible and make conclusion that god has any number of different political stances. Some places and times people would read the bible and see that it was "obvious" that god intended the church to be the government and priests the governors. Many places and times people would read the bible and see it "obvious" that god is a monarchist who wants god-fearing people to be ruled by kings or arch-dukes or fearless leaders or other god-ordained grand muck-a-mucks. Many places and times people read the bible and see it "obvious" that god is a socialist who wants the gov to take from the rich and give to the poor. Sometimes god is a democratic socialist who wants the people to periodically elect the most suitable leaders to take from the rich and give to the poor, and other times god is a monarchist or dictatorial socialist who has selected a grand muck-a-muck to rule for life and oversee the holy taking from the rich and giving to the poor. Some people read the bible and conclude that god is an oligarchist, who has blessed a few virtuous men fabulous wealth, and those few so blessed have the natural god-given right to govern all the peons and abuse/exploit them however they see fit. Some people read the bible and think that god is a democrat. Others read the bible and conclude that god is a republican.

Now to me, it is plainly obvious that if god exists, he has GOT to be a libertarian and god wanted everybody to vote Ron Paul and/or Gary Johnson. Voting for Romney or Obama was a depraved mortal sin. The people did not follow god's will and therefore god will be a vengeful god, causing much wailing and knashing of teeth for refusing to vote the way which god hath commanded!

Edited November 8, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[gun sane]

[quote name='HvyMtl' timestamp='1352325872' post='841359']
We were never considered a Christian-Judeo nation, even by the Founding Fathers. See the Treaty of Tripoli, written in 1796, approved by the 2nd President, a certain John Adams.
See the treaty's article 11.
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Treaty_of_Tripoli_as_communicated_to_Congress_1797.png"]http://en.wikipedia....ngress_1797.png[/url]

This misconception is a more recent creation.
[/quote]

Funny what politicians will write just to get foreigners to sign a piece of paper.