Marine Corps helicopter pilot sues over Wyo. traffic stop

[Guest AmericanWorkMule]

Another reason why agencies need to train their staff instead of violating the rights of citizens.

[quote]
By Ben Neary - The Associated Press
Posted: Monday Sep 24, 2012 20:28:05 EDT
CHEYENNE, Wyo. — A Wyoming sheriff’s deputy who detained a combat veteran in handcuffs for openly carrying a pistol offered to let him go if he agreed to let another deputy draw his weapon and shoot if the veteran made any sudden moves while driving away, court records show.
[/quote]


[url="http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/mobile/news/2012/09/ap-marine-helicopter-pilot-sues-over-wyoming-traffic-stop-092412"]http://www.marinecor...fic-stop-092412[/url]


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXwW2nrV0bY&list=HL1348616826&feature=mh_lolz[/media] Edited November 5, 2012 by AmericanWorkMule

[Spots]

I hope those cops are unemployed very soon.

[RobertNashville]

Okay...at first blush, I don't see this as some big breech of this marine's rights.

Regardless of our "rights" and regardless of whether the state we are in at the moment does or doesn't allow open carry and/or constitutional carry; I don't think it should be difficult to understand that when an officer stops us, whether he was or wasn't justified in doing so, it's not unreasonable that the officer may be concerned about the fact that we are armed and may be overly cautious.

I guess what I'm saying is that both this marine and this officer could benefit from some relaxation techniques.


In the meantime; I'll listen to this again...maybe I missed something. Edited November 5, 2012 by RobertNashville

[mikegideon]

Voldemort behaviour brings on Voldemort style trouble. The guy was confrontational from the beginning.

[LagerHead]

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1352157408' post='839603']
Okay...at first blush, I don't see this as some big breech of this marine's rights.

Regardless of our "rights" and regardless of whether the state we are in at the moment does or doesn't allow open carry and/or constitutional carry; I don't think it should be difficult to understand that when an officer stops us, whether he was or wasn't justified in doing so, it's not unreasonable that the officer may be concerned about the fact that we are armed and may be overly cautious.

I guess what I'm saying is that both this marine and this officer could benefit from some relaxation techniques.


In the meantime; I'll listen to this again...maybe I missed something.
[/quote]

Next time you're handcuffed for nearly an hour by an officer who admits you committed no crime come back and tell me YOUR rights weren't breached.

[DaveTN]

Does a Police Officer have the right to detain or disarm a person they perceive as a threat? I don’t know if the SCOTUS has ever answered that question or not. That will be the question that will need to be answered in his civil case, if there is one.

If I ask a person if they have any weapons and they responded with the kind of BS this guy did; I am in fear for my safety and he would be in cuffs. If he wanted to sue me, or my department wanted to fire me; so be it.

The guy was obliviously trying to set the cop up for a lawsuit. The mistake the cop made was trying to reason with the guy when it was obvious he wasn’t interested in hearing it. The cop should have cuffed him, ran his checks, waited on his back-up, wrote him, warned him or whatever he was going to do and then let him go. All that conversation about rights, Officer safety and the Constitution was not necessary.

The other mistake the cop made was stopping the guy before he had a violation. He already had PC for a stop (citizens complaint), but I wouldn’t stop him until I had witnessed a violation.

And why does “Marine Helo Pilot” have anything to do with it? Would something be different if it was a “Dirt bag on a motorcycle”? From listening to the audio; both descriptions apply.

[vontar]

There was a lot wrong in that.

[RED333]

I have said it before, LEOs job is to ask questions, just answer then.
Dont lie, dont have a bad attatude, and you will be on your way in no time.
Now if you are doing something wrong all that is out the window.
No I did not watch the video, no time, I got the idear from what others posted that
both LEO and Vet made mistakes.

[daddyo]

"I don't like someone with a gun"

That says it all right there.

And the only one being confrontational was the cop. Period.

Why do some LEOs have such an issue with a citizen knowing and exercising his rights? Is it little man syndrome, or is it just that they believe that a citizen should just do whatever they say without questioning it, whether it violates someone's constitutional rights or not? Edited November 6, 2012 by DaddyO

[Paladin132]

I am concerned that more and more we see officers that would rather treat every citizen as a suspect rather than a fellow citizen. Police are civilians too. They need to realize that just because someone is armed does not equate to reasonable suspicion or probable cause for anything.

The fact that the supervisor ordered him released tells me there wasn't anything to it more than likely - officers have a litany of things they can arrest for if they are angry.

Some police I think are scared of citizens from the time they go onto the road until they come off. That is unhealthy for them as well as society.

[RobertNashville]

[quote name='LagerHead' timestamp='1352161628' post='839659']

Next time you're handcuffed for nearly an hour by an officer who admits you committed no crime come back and tell me YOUR rights weren't breached.[/quote] All I'm saying is my think both parties played a part of what happened.

It seems me that the Marine was showing a bit more attitude than necessary and the cop responded - Maybe this puts me in the minority, but I try to avoid confrontation on the side of the road with people that have handcuffs.

I am not saying that the cops were correct in how they handle this, only that both sides played their own parts and what happened

[G27ATT]

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1352163496' post='839687']All I'm saying is my think both parties played a part of what happened.

It seems me that the Marine was showing a bit more attitude than necessary and the cop responded - Maybe this puts me in the minority, but I try to avoid confrontation on the side of the road with people that have handcuffs.

I am not saying that the cops were correct in how they handle this, only that both sides played their own parts and what happened[/quote]

So the fact that they have handcuffs is a deciding factor in how you decide to act around them? That doesn't mean a thing. It's their job to know when to cuff and when not to cuff. I think they should face lawsuits for detaining people for no good reason. That prick just thinks he's a badass.

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[Guest 6.8 AR]

I didn't see the attitude that some saw. The Marine appeared to be polite, but assertive. The cop was the one
who seemed out of depth in the conversation. Did he give the cop a reason to cuff him? I don't think so. If he is
so afraid of guns, why is he a cop? Where was the threat?

It seems like questions more correctly put, that were pertinent would have gotten the job done.

[vontar]

Also seems the cop was misinformed on the states carry laws concerning open carry. The ones that enforce laws need to have an understanding of what the laws are.

[RobertNashville]

[quote name='G27ATT' timestamp='1352168189' post='839754']

So the fact that they have handcuffs is a deciding factor in how you decide to act around them? That doesn't mean a thing. It's their job to know when to cuff and when not to cuff. I think they should face lawsuits for detaining people for no good reason. That prick just thinks he's a badass.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2[/quote] There is no reason for the snide comment.

They are facing a lawsuit apparently you missed that. This marine may or may not win his suit but either way, it doesn't change simple truth that debating the law on the side of the road with a police officer usually doesn't turn out well. Edited November 6, 2012 by RobertNashville

[G27ATT]

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1352169900' post='839783']There is no reason for the snide comment.

They are facing a lawsuit apparently you missed that. This marine may or may not win his suit but either way, it doesn't change simple truth that debating the law on the side of the road with a police officer usually doesn't turn out well.[/quote]

Apparently you miss that I stated they should always face lawsuits, meaning not just this time. Is that me being snide? Guess so.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[RobertNashville]

[quote name='G27ATT' timestamp='1352171389' post='839798']Is that me being snide? Guess so.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2[/quote]Yuup.

Edited November 6, 2012 by RobertNashville

[G27ATT]

I wasn't trying to be a total prick, but I know I'd pay a price for acting like a fool at a traffic stop. Definitely doesn't mean I'll give respect unless I am given it.

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[G27ATT]

Forget that last sentence. These pain pills are messing with my mind. Good thing I'm confined to a lay z boy for a few weeks.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[Wyldk2]

IMHO, The first responder needs to refresh himself on the laws in his state. Each state is different and i understand it might be hard for one who enforces those laws to remember every one. Both sides could have acted a bit better i do agree, But it seems like the Initiating leo didn't need to handcuff the rider. It's good that the rider( marine pilot) did record this encounter or we might not have gotten his side of the story.

Here in Tennessee it probably would have gone another direction. Because in this state you are required to let the officer know of any firearms on your person or in the vehicle. Just to save a hassle, it's best to hand your permit with your license and registration.

Luckily( knock on wood) i have not had a such encounter with police. I don't usually open carry, but i have not been stopped by police since having a gun permit either.

Yes, i'm either that good at driving or my vehicle looks like a LEv.

[Chucktshoes]

[quote name='Wyldk2' timestamp='1352183768' post='839893']IMHO, The first responder needs to refresh himself on the laws in his state. Each state is different and i understand it might be hard for one who enforces those laws to remember every one. Both sides could have acted a bit better i do agree, But it seems like the Initiating leo didn't need to handcuff the rider. It's good that the rider( marine pilot) did record this encounter or we might not have gotten his side of the story.

Here in Tennessee it probably would have gone another direction. [B]Because in this state you are required to let the officer know of any firearms on your person or in the vehicle. Just to save a hassle, it's best to hand your permit with your license and registration.[/b]

Luckily( knock on wood) i have not had a such encounter with police. I don't usually open carry, but i have not been stopped by police since having a gun permit either.

Yes, i'm either that good at driving or my vehicle looks like a LEv.[/quote]

The first part of the highlighted portion is incorrect, TN is NOT a must notify state. While you are not required to notify, you are required to produce the permit on request if asked and you have a firearm on you. That being said, I completely agree with the second sentence of the highlighted section.

[jughead]

i have been stopped 2 times since 97 and was dis-armed both times. dont mind that but tenn law tells me where i can carry NOT how i can carry and both officers read me the riot act over how i carry. aint none of their business.

[sschrick]

regardless of the whole video and what was said and people's attitudes, I am pretty sure where the cop says that his beliefs, etc. . .TRUMP the Constitution is going to get him in hot water.

i would be curious to hear the follow up to this story. . .

[mikegideon]

[quote name='sschrick' timestamp='1352211588' post='839957']
regardless of the whole video and what was said and people's attitudes, I am pretty sure where the cop says that his beliefs, etc. . .TRUMP the Constitution is going to get him in hot water.

i would be curious to hear the follow up to this story. . .
[/quote]

I'll take a stab... judge throws the case out of court using the whiney bitch clause. That guy would have been out of handcuffs a lot sooner if he would have just shut up. Cops get shot and killed at traffic stops a lot. There's usually a gun involved.

[LagerHead]

[quote name='RobertNashville' timestamp='1352163496' post='839687']
All I'm saying is my think both parties played a part of what happened.

It seems me that the Marine was showing a bit more attitude than necessary and the cop responded - Maybe this puts me in the minority, but I try to avoid confrontation on the side of the road with people that have handcuffs.

I am not saying that the cops were correct in how they handle this, only that both sides played their own parts and what happened
[/quote]

I can't argue that. I do think he should have just answered the question, especially since he was open carrying and it was painfully obvious that he was in fact carrying. That being said, if I end up in handcuffs there needs to be a lawful reason.