When does spanking become abuse?

[reed1285]

If you dont have kids then i dont think your opinion is valid in this thread. I was spanked as a kid, my parents never beat me, but id get my backporch painted red if i did something bad enough that called for it. I love both my parents and would do absolutely anything i could for them if they ever needed me to. I dont hold an ounce of hate or despise for either of them for spanking me. It sure did make me think twice about doing the same thing again.

Some people are sounding awfully liberal in this thread lol.

[Garufa]

[quote name='reed1285' timestamp='1351904436' post='838063']
If you dont have kids then i dont think your opinion is valid in this thread.
[/quote]

Why?

[Smith]

[quote name='CCI' timestamp='1351903335' post='838050']
Why would any one spank or hit a two year old child? Two years old!!! I shocked at the responses I'm reading, that's it's OK to spank a child of that age! That is abuse, cut and dried!
[/quote]

Haha, half the time they're in a diaper and a swat on the hind end gets their attention pretty quickly and doesn't hurt them. Especially since their verbal skills and reasoning aren't quite there yet. At 2 it's about focus. Instant correction or afirmation is needed at 2, not discussion.

BTW - spanking is NOT hitting.

[reed1285]

[quote name='Garufa' timestamp='1351905002' post='838073']

Why?[/quote]

When someone has no experience in a certain thing, their advice/opinions usually arent listened to. Im sure as heck not gonna take parenting advice from somebody that doesnt have kids. Thatd be kinda silly right. Just my .02 on the matter

[Murgatroy]

[quote name='Garufa' timestamp='1351905002' post='838073']
Why?
[/quote]

I think it is a harsh statement, but I think it needs to be made.

If you are raising your child, you have concerns, hopes, dreams, but most importantly a goal. That goal is to raise a fully functional member of society.

I am not saying that being a blood parent is in any way more important that being a parent to a child. I have two step fathers (one has passed) that I love as fathers. They are closer to me than my father, and I am thankful for the values and morals that I gathered from them, even if we never saw eye to eye.

But spending the weekends with a niece or a nephew isn't the same as being with your child day in and day out. I think that is a big difference. When you get tired of someone else's kid, you can walk away.



Back to the topic.

My wife and I have raised our daughter.

Let me repeat that.

My wife and I have raised our daughter.

Let's break that down. My wife, the woman I married because I loved and wanted to spend my life with, and myself, the only person in this entire world I have learned I can count on. Raised, without the aid of Uncle Sam, her parents, my parents, a day care or a school system. We taught her to read, write, add and subtract. She is our blood and because of that comes with a special set of circumstances. One of which is being an ornery redhead.

I hate to say that one of my goals in raising my daughter is to be a better parent than mine were, but it is. I hate to keep score. I hate to think of the times I woke up hungry, cold, bruised.

As an adult it has made me a cold person. Bitter is a bit strong of a word, but it might fit too.

The first whupping my daughter got came at around three years of age. She had gotten in the habit of ripping pages out of books. She had gotten time outs. She had been sent to bed. It didn't stop her. I was tired of it. I whupped her.

She hasn't destroyed a book since.




So you can tell me that reasoning with a three year old (or a two year old in the case of the thread) is a preferred method, but what do you do when that doesn't work? Do you just continue to buy new books and put your child in time out? Please, in your infinite wisdom, tell me again where I am going wrong in raising my child?

Since she behaves in school. Scores in the 99th percentile on all standardized tests. Has plenty of friends. Loves both of her parents. Is kind to her cat. Feeds her fish. Cleans her room. Is nice and kind to anyone she meets.

Tell me how all those kids that have liberal tree hugging parents who cry at the thought of violence deal with it when little junior shoots up a school?

I might be going a little overboard, and I apologize, I don't mean this to be a personal attack at anyone. I just want some clarification from all of those that think I (and the rest that think like me) are wrong. Do you have kids?

[Guest FIST]

I used to get my a** whooped in school, at home, at relatives homes, wherever really. Paddles, belts and hands were the tools. The only common demoninator was "me" acting like a fool.

I have two daughters, 12 and 5. Both respond to discipline differently. Spankings happen when necessary.

I'm not violent, abbusive, or a troublemaker of any sort, apparently the whooping's I received as a kid didn't make me a turd. As a parent you have to find out what works with each individual child and apply it appropriately. Limiting yourself on forms of discipline is like the Geneva convention, sucks for us but not them.

[personDJ]

spanking is hiting. And most of you believe in it because you were hit or spanked. You are hitting someone who has a brain that is not yet developed fully and it doesn't until about age 20 or so.

[xRUSTYx]

[quote name='personDJ' timestamp='1351921541' post='838210']
spanking is hiting. And most of you believe in it because you were hit or spanked. You are hitting [b]someone who has a brain that is not yet developed fully[/b] and it doesn't until about age 20 or so.
[/quote]

So, in other words -- You don't believe kids can fully understand the situation. If that's the case, how would YOU discipline? Because according to you, if a child can't understand, or reason with an adult, timeouts, being sent to their room, not eating because they won't eat their veggies, etc... [u]ALL would not work[/u], because a child's brain has not yet fully developed.

[daddyo]

[quote name='personDJ' timestamp='1351921541' post='838210']
spanking is hiting. And most of you believe in it because you were hit or spanked. You are hitting someone who has a brain that is not yet developed fully and it doesn't until about age 20 or so.
[/quote]

And I believe that this mindset is why we have so many problems in society today.... lack of physical discipline.

[TMF]

[quote name='personDJ' timestamp='1351921541' post='838210']spanking is hiting. And most of you believe in it because you were hit or spanked. You are hitting someone who has a brain that is not yet developed fully and it doesn't until about age 20 or so.[/quote]

You are purposefully ignorant and way off base.

[DaveTN]

[quote name='luke9511' timestamp='1351879642' post='837880']
if dcs does nothing who do i contact next? [/quote]
The juvenile division of the Police Department. It won’t be easy, look what’s going on right here, you have people telling you the world’s problems is because people don’t beat their kids.

You have to step up. Make a domestic violence complaint; then the cops are required to act. This sounds like a lot more than a parent spanking their kid. We are only getting your side of the story (as usual); you may be a nut case, we don’t know. But if you contact the Cops, make yourself known, and make a complaint; you have done all there is to do. You are a family member living in the same house; as much as I hate to say this, that kicks it up a notch from someone making a complaint that gets passed to DCFS.

[Jesse]

Im curious to what you guys spank your kids for.

Give some examples if you dont mind. Not trying to be mean. Just waana know what warrants your spankings.

[TMF]

[quote name='Jesse' timestamp='1351952145' post='838317']Im curious to what you guys spank your kids for.

Give some examples if you dont mind. Not trying to be mean. Just waana know what warrants your spankings.[/quote]

Usually for chewing on our WIC checks, breaking my meth pipe and playing with one of the many loaded pistols I leave around the house.

Ya know, if you're gonna be so presumptuous to figure that responsible, loving parents couldn't possibly spank their children the above scenarios should be easy to believe.

[101]

[quote name='Jesse' timestamp='1351952145' post='838317']
Im curious to what you guys spank your kids for.

Give some examples if you dont mind. Not trying to be mean. Just waana know what warrants your spankings.
[/quote]

My son was 6. He grabbed his penis in class and gestured to the teacher to blow him and told her to shove it.

Not sure where he learned that from or who got him to do it, but the a** whooping was swift and effective. From that day forward, the reports we get from other people about is behavior is that he is the most polite, well mannered child they have met. Yes sir, no ma'ams all the time.

Remember, NEVER judge your childs behavior with your own eyes. Always judge it with what others say about your child when you're not around. Most children act entirely different when they are not around their parents.

[Lumber_Jack]

I was spanked as a child as were my two sisters, I know because my mother told me so, not because I have vivid memories of being spanked. I do remember my sister getting spanked but she was 6 yrs younger, so I was a teen when she was being corrected. My point is spankings don't have I be a life trauma to work. It's meant to give a physical response to coordinate with the verbal.

I don't have kids so all I can relate to is my dog. Sometime I can correct her actions verbally till I'm blue in the face but a small pop on the butt and I've got her attention. And I can attest that I would never hurt her and would fight anyone who did so, unequivocally.

Unlike dogs children have the ability to reason, that's why spankings in most cases, as previously stated, can be rare.

I can tell you this, I've seen kids spanked in a manner that was not abusive, but that I strongly disagreed with. A kid just being a kid, and the parent was annoyed or in a bad mood. And on the other hand I've seen too many kids that need a spanking but will never get one.

To the OP if you live in the house all I can say is be vigilant and look out for the child the best you can. Sounds like the mother is beyond talking to.

[Murgatroy]

[quote name='Lumber_Jack' timestamp='1351954279' post='838337']
I was spanked as a child as were my two sisters, I know because my mother told me so, not because I have vivid memories of being spanked. I do remember my sister getting spanked but she was 6 yrs younger, so I was a teen when she was being corrected. My point is spankings don't have I be a life trauma to work. It's meant to give a physical response to coordinate with the verbal.

I don't have kids so all I can relate to is my dog. Sometime I can correct her actions verbally till I'm blue in the face but a small pop on the butt and I've got her attention. And I can attest that I would never hurt her and would fight anyone who did so, unequivocally.

Unlike dogs children have the ability to reason, that's why spankings in most cases, as previously stated, can be rare.

I can tell you this, I've seen kids spanked in a manner that was not abusive, but that I strongly disagreed with. A kid just being a kid, and the parent was annoyed or in a bad mood. And on the other hand I've seen too many kids that need a spanking but will never get one.

To the OP if you live in the house all I can say is be vigilant and look out for the child the best you can. Sounds like the mother is beyond talking to.
[/quote]Great, now the thread is going to devolve into beating our pets too... Edited November 3, 2012 by Murgatroy

[daddyo]

[quote name='Jesse' timestamp='1351952145' post='838317']
Im curious to what you guys spank your kids for.

Give some examples if you dont mind. Not trying to be mean. Just waana know what warrants your spankings.
[/quote]

Willful disobedience
Intentionally destructive behavior
Meanness/cruelty towards others
Behavior that could get them seriously injured or killed

[Lumber_Jack]

[quote name='Murgatroy' timestamp='1351960179' post='838364']Great, now the thread is going to devolve into beating our pets too...[/quote]

Ha, I'm all for the beating of small children but I draw the line at pets :sarcasm:

[Guest CCI]

[quote name='DaddyO' timestamp='1351960187' post='838365']
Willful disobedience
Intentionally destructive behavior
Meanness/cruelty towards others
Behavior that could get them seriously injured or killed
[/quote]Probably needs special counseling or therapy!

[Smith]

[quote name='CCI' timestamp='1351967516' post='838431']Probably needs special counseling or therapy![/quote]
True. There will be a meeting behind the wood shed.

Edited November 3, 2012 by AK Guy

[TrickyNicky]

Wow can't believe there are so many here who would consider spankings inappropriate punishment.
Spankings as a child helped forge the decent man I am today, and as much as I never believed it as a child whenever my parents said "one day you'll thank us for this" they were 100% right.
I'm thankfull they cared enough to tan my hide as appossed to other kids I knew who could get away with murder. At the time I thought they had the cool parents but I'll tell you they don't make better parents than mine.

I'm not a biblical man by any means but I have to agree "spare the rod spoil the child"

[Raoul]

[quote name='TrickyNicky' timestamp='1351969447' post='838443']
Wow can't believe there are so many here who would consider spankings inappropriate punishment.
Spankings as a child helped forge the decent man I am today, and as much as I never believed it as a child whenever my parents said "one day you'll thank us for this" they were 100% right.
I'm thankfull they cared enough to tan my hide as appossed to other kids I knew who could get away with murder. At the time I thought they had the cool parents but I'll tell you they don't make better parents than mine.

I'm not a biblical man by any means but I have to agree "spare the rod spoil the child"
[/quote]

I think the original concern was broader than just spanking. Especially when you are talking about a 2 year old.

[TrickyNicky]

Yeah but it seems the OP has gotten probably the best advice on the subject that he's going to and the topic has apparently morphed into a general debate on the merits of spankings in general. If my post is off topic it's certainly not the first one of the thread to be.

Oh and for the record my first swat on the butt was probably around the same age, about two-three years old.
However my parents never left any marks or bruises wether it be a bare handed swat a belt or a hairbrush. Sounds like OP might be seeing something else all together.

[Major Kong]

[quote name='personDJ' timestamp='1351921541' post='838210']
spanking is hiting. And most of you believe in it because you were hit or spanked. You are hitting someone who has a brain that is not yet developed fully and it doesn't until about age 20 or so.
[/quote]

So discipline shouldn't be enforced on anyone until they're 20 or so? That may be the most asinine thing I've ever read.

[personDJ]

[quote name='Major Kong' timestamp='1351989922' post='838558']
So discipline shouldn't be enforced on anyone until they're 20 or so? That may be the most asinine thing I've ever read.
[/quote]

I can't believe how many think discpline is hitting or spanking. My god I can teach a dog how to behave without hitting and children are much smarter. If your child tears pages from a book then that child is not ready for a book, just take it away until you can teach the child how to handle a book. When a child acts up find out why and change that. Don't change the child by hitting. When it gets to the point that you must hit a child to make them act as you want then maybe it is the spanker that needs some learning