When does spanking become abuse?

[101]

[quote name='luke9511' timestamp='1351878324' post='837860']
shes completely on the system, shes just like our mom she has a record so she cant get a job or if she can she is like alot of people who abuse the system and does not want too, i dont even know where shes getting money to move out (well except that she stole my grandfathers 900 dollar ring and he believes she did it but no proof) or to have a one of the pay minute phones or if the way shes getting money is legal or not
[/quote]

In this case, good luck getting DCS to act. It will cost them money out of their pocket and she is already fully supported by the state. The state will not reimbursement DCS if they take the child. Catch 22. Hate to say it but it boils down to money, just like everything else. I saw a DCS worker with my own eyes call cigarette burns on the arm of a little girl an accident because mommy was already a ward of the state. They were not going to make money off of her if they took the girl simply for cigarette burns. It disgusts me to no end.

You're in a tight spot. I wish you well. One thing, do NOT take the child and call it protecting him. The same DCS (legal) system calls that kidnapping. Now you're the bad guy.

[peejman]

[quote name='luke9511' timestamp='1351877456' post='837848']
i have also seen her jerk him by the arm and pick him up and walk off in anger carrying him by the one arm, we also contacted dcs and they sent someone over but my sister just lied through her teeth and the dcs person just laughed and giggled with her over what she was saying, it was a complete joke
[/quote]

I dislocated my oldest's elbow when he was 3. He wasn't listening, I was annoyed, he pulled one way, I pulled the other, and pop! He howled. We took him to the local urgent clinic, got him x-rayed, and the dr. didn't really find anything wrong. I felt like such a heel (still do). I was surprised that we didn't get a visit from DCS after that. Even more so after visits to the same clinic when the dog bit him (twice). Stuff happens.

It does sound like there's some significant issues with your sister, but it'll get way more messy than you can imagine if you get involved. If you feel strongly enough about it, proceed. Child abuse is a horrible thing.

[ironsniper1]

if dcs does nothing who do i contact next? my little brother is going through the samething and hes 10, my mom does not feed him or cook dinner for him and if he gets his own food she eats it instead and she is never around to take care of him, me and my gf have basically been taking care of him by cooking him dinner etc

[101]

[quote name='luke9511' timestamp='1351879642' post='837880']
if dcs does nothing who do i contact next? my little brother is going through the samething and hes 10, my mom does not feed him or cook dinner for him and if he gets his own food she eats it instead and she is never around to take care of him, me and my gf have basically been taking care of him by cooking him dinner etc
[/quote]

I would, if you have the ability, get as many of your family members (extended also) to intervene and handle these issues internally. If you get no support from within, try calling DCS and become the squeaky wheel. At some point, she might mess up bad enough and hurt him bad enough for them to get involved. If that point comes, there will be a trail of complaints showing a history of issues. That might just be enough to warrant DCS getting involved. Once again, once they get in your (family) life, they do not go away easily. Feelings will be hurt and the child will have to live life with fosters, and that is worse in some instances.

[TGO David]

[quote name='personDJ' timestamp='1351876007' post='837827']
I fell sorry for folks that think they are doing good by employing violence. What do you think you are teaching by hitting another human. Never hit children. Never hit anyone unless it's for self defence.
[/quote]

There is a strong difference between disciplining your child and "employing violence". And yeah yeah... violence has never solved anything. Except slavery, fascism, Nazism, Communism...

[Caster]

[quote name='TGO David' timestamp='1351881632' post='837895']
There is a strong difference between disciplining your child and "employing violence". [u]And yeah yeah... violence has never solved anything. Except slavery, fascism, Nazism, Communism... [/u]
[/quote]

Right. If violence isn't solving a problem, you're probably not doing it right.

[TMF]

[quote name='luke9511' timestamp='1351876235' post='837833']she does not spank him on the butt and i have not been around him much but he used to have cuts on his legs ALL the time and she has said its cause he falls ALOT her words not mine[/quote]

My son is three. I have never seen him without cuts and bruises on his legs since he learned to walk.

Also, to the comment regarding not feeding him if he refuses food; so what? That's what you're supposed to do in order not to raise a spoiled little brat of a child, like i see everywhere I go. My son goes to bed without dinner all the time. If he doesn't eat what I give him, he doesn't eat. That isn't child abuse smart guy. Kids can't starve by refusing food now and then. They will get hungry enough to eat eventually. Trust me. The parents that give in to this tactic are being manipulated by a child, and that is the reason we have so many obese children... because the parents claim all they will eat is french fries and Coke. They will eat veggies if they have to. Trust me.

Now, only you can be the judge of what's going on there, but make sure it isn't just your own sense of importance driving you, as in "I wouldn't do it that way." If you really think there is a problem, grow a pair talk to the mom about it like an adult. Not in an accusatory argumentative fashion, like an adult. Don't go running off to the State.

Last thing, do you have any kids?

[ironsniper1]

[quote name='TMF' timestamp='1351884219' post='837917']
My son is three. I have never seen him without cuts and bruises on his legs since he learned to walk.

Also, to the comment regarding not feeding him if he refuses food; so what? That's what you're supposed to do in order not to raise a spoiled little brat of a child, like i see everywhere I go. My son goes to bed without dinner all the time. If he doesn't eat what I give him, he doesn't eat. That isn't child abuse smart guy. Kids can't starve by refusing food now and then. They will get hungry enough to eat eventually. Trust me. The parents that give in to this tactic are being manipulated by a child, and that is the reason we have so many obese children... because the parents claim all they will eat is french fries and Coke. They will eat veggies if they have to. Trust me.

Now, only you can be the judge of what's going on there, but make sure it isn't just your own sense of importance driving you, as in "I wouldn't do it that way." If you really think there is a problem, grow a pair talk to the mom about it like an adult. Not in an accusatory argumentative fashion, like an adult. Don't go running off to the State.

Last thing, do you have any kids?
[/quote]many people in my family has talked to her about it she dont listen, shes a lie, cheats, manipulates people, she calls herself a swinger the list goes on, and to the food thing she didnt feed him till the next night

[Raoul]

Hmm.
All I can say about this is check for bruises. If the child is being hit hard enough for bruising there's a big problem.
Spanking is one thing, beating is something else altogether. Especially on a 2 year old. Edited November 2, 2012 by Raoul

[TMF]

[quote name='Jesse' timestamp='1351878794' post='837869']Me and my wife have always believed spanking is the lazy way out of parenting.

Its a lot of work to teach a kid from right and wrong without hitting but once you do its drilled into their memory for life. Hitting teaches them its short term punishment. And could make them hit other kids out of anger also.

I wouldnt want my child to ever have fear that i would hit them if they messed up. Im all for talking to them and figuring out why they did what they did. And timeouts also work great if you stick to it.[/quote]

All kids are different. While I agree that spanking shouldn't be the "go to" it should certainly not be discounted altogether as "lazy". My wife has been against spanking long before we ever had children. She exhausted every means on our oldest until recently adding spanking to her kit bag. She is anything but a lazy parent. She has only spanked him a few times. Timeouts are working again because he knows that it can go to the next level. He will probably only be spanked a few more times in his childhood, but it won't be out of laziness. Making broad generalizations about parenting techniques is lazy philosophy.

[Jesse]

Im willing to see a 2 year study of a child who is out of control and who is spanked every day. And send that kid to a home with a parent that reasons and doesnt spank. Id like to see the differnce after 2 years. I really do not belive you need to spank ever. Id even be part of the study to prove it.

[Smith]

[quote name='Jesse' timestamp='1351887370' post='837936']
Im willing to see a 2 year study of a child who is out of control and who is spanked every day. And send that kid to a home with a parent that reasons and doesnt spank. Id like to see the differnce after 2 years. I really do not belive you need to spank ever. Id even be part of the study to prove it.
[/quote]

You could do a new study and you'd still be wrong with several thousand of years of actual evidence plus modern studies to the same effect. You're isolating on one technique. It doesn't work that way and never has. You are describing abuse not discipline. I fa kid needs spanking everyday then your have much bigger issues. I suggest you get past the emotional objection and use all the tools available to you. Your one child may not need that approach, I have some that do and some that don't. It's naive to treat every kid the same and assume they all respond the same.
And no I won't give you the links. That would be lazy on my part.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

[quote name='luke9511' timestamp='1351874876' post='837811']
we (me and my girlfriend) live in a three story house with my grandparents and sister and her child.

now we are on the top floor and she is on the floor below us, now when her 2 year old does something hes not supposed to do we can hear her spank him all the way up here through doors and walls.

when should we basically do something? and should we do something?

we worry about this child and what might happen when she moves out but were at a loss at what to do! any help or advice anyone can give would be great!
[/quote]
This is your sister? Why don't you talk to her, directly, about this before calling DCS, or whatever? If she thinks
spanking a child for very little things is good, it sounds like she needed a 2x4 applied to her head. You should tell her it has to stop, now! If not she needs to know that DCS will get a complaint against her, if you haven't already called.

I spanked both of our kids one time,each, for their entire lives. Spanking is needed only when nothing else works. Talking to a child works miracles, most of the time, and if she doesn't have good enough communication skills, she needs to keep her legs crazy glued shut. Edited November 2, 2012 by 6.8 AR

[xRUSTYx]

[quote name='6.8 AR' timestamp='1351892758' post='837971']
she needs to keep her legs crazy glued shut.
[/quote]

too late, she has twins on the way per the OP

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

Spanking has its time and place..
Its an effective tool just like a time out,or taking toys away.
Ours got a few spankings..
He doesnt resent us ,doesnt torture kittens and is never cussed at us or is violent. He does came to understand that when he got spanked that he was wrong and that was punishment..he might have giotten 3 spankings in his life.
He is in the Airforce and calls everyone Ma`am or Sir...

Spanking isnt some evil torture ..its part of growing up ..it was when I was a kid and it was part of our parenting...

[Murgatroy]

I am amazed with some of the responses here.

I know it is naive to hope that gun owners want to raise the next generation to be responsible, yet I see many responses that state how they prefer to sit and reason with a child that has not sense of reason or logic at that age. I have to ask, do you folks even have children? If you do, are you raising them, or do you drop them off at the baby sitter, grandparents, daycare all day?

To the OP, if it were me, I would keep my nose out of it. I would find a way to support myself, and my girlfriend, I would move out of my grandparent's house and then avoid contact with my white trash family.

If that sounds harsh to anyone, let me explain a few things...

I am the oldest of six. I was beaten on a daily basis until I was 17 and I finally swung back. I have been on my own since that day. I have slept in gutters. I am currently a parent of a well behaved child that scores well on tests, socializes well and is considered a model student.

I have cut all ties with my family. I have three sisters. None of them have custody their children. One is a drunk, one is a meth head and the other eats pills like M&Ms. I have two brothers. Neither of them have custody of their children. One is a homeless drug addict and the other one slings a hammer long enough to get money for his next high.

I am the only sibling of the six to have a healthy home. I couldn't do that if I spent all my time worrying about how they live their lives.

I have a good job. In this economy, it might even be considered a great job. I have a good wife. And as I mentioned I have a great daughter.

And believe it or not, when she misbehaves, she gets spanked. Or as we call it in our home, 'Whupped.'





I understand that might be a foreign concept to some folks here, but I have a feeling that there are more than a few like minded folks here. After all, this site isn't about growing alfalfa sprouts and driving a Prius, nor is it about how best to get a government check while watching Springer all day.

[personDJ]

You may come up with several reasons to hit children but the simple fact is children grow to be adults. when you hit children you are teaching an adult it is OK to hit others. Hitting children is against the law in this country as far as I know. If I am wrong then it should be.

[daddyo]

Spare the rod, spoil the child. Edited November 2, 2012 by DaddyO

[Smith]

[quote name='personDJ' timestamp='1351899900' post='838017']
You may come up with several reasons to hit children but the simple fact is children grow to be adults. when you hit children you are teaching an adult it is OK to hit others. Hitting children is against the law in this country as far as I know. If I am wrong then it should be.
[/quote]

Spanking is not hitting. Hitting a child is abuse, spanking is not. It's like suing the Drill instructor for verbal abuse or arresting a parent for putting their kid in timeout with a kidnapping charge.

[G27]

[quote name='personDJ' timestamp='1351899900' post='838017']
You may come up with several reasons to hit children but the simple fact is children grow to be adults. when you hit children you are teaching an adult it is OK to hit others. Hitting children is against the law in this country as far as I know. If I am wrong then it should be.
[/quote]
Weird, I was spanked growing up, as was everyone else I knew - none of us hit people as adults.

[i]"There'll be blood in the streets!"[/i]

[Murgatroy]

[quote name='personDJ' timestamp='1351899900' post='838017']
You may come up with several reasons to hit children but the simple fact is children grow to be adults. when you hit children you are teaching an adult it is OK to hit others. Hitting children is against the law in this country as far as I know. If I am wrong then it should be.
[/quote]I guess you can't tell the difference between the colors black and white either?

Discipline is not hitting.

If you can't understand a simple difference like that, I really don't think I am going to be able to explain any of the philosophies I hold to in life.

[TMF]

[quote name='personDJ' timestamp='1351899900' post='838017']You may come up with several reasons to hit children but the simple fact is children grow to be adults. when you hit children you are teaching an adult it is OK to hit others. Hitting children is against the law in this country as far as I know. If I am wrong then it should be.[/quote]

Haha, okay.

[Guest CCI]

Why would any one spank or hit a two year old child? Two years old!!! I shocked at the responses I'm reading, that's it's OK to spank a child of that age! That is abuse, cut and dried!

[G27]

Never mind. Edited November 3, 2012 by crimsonaudio

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

[quote name='personDJ' timestamp='1351899900' post='838017']
You may come up with several reasons to hit children but the simple fact is children grow to be adults. when you hit children you are teaching an adult it is OK to hit others. Hitting children is against the law in this country as far as I know. If I am wrong then it should be.
[/quote]