922r and who it applies to

[Dolomite_supafly]

Spoke to the several branches within the ATF today.

With regards to 922r, and who must comply with it, this law applies to everyone. It is not just an import regulation that applies only to the importer. It applies to the importer but also the dealer who sells it as well as the individual who owns it.

Additionally, if an individual decides to add or change parts of imported firearm that is subject to 922r they must ensure the gun is 922r compliant after the parts are added or swapped or they are in violation of the law.

The individual owner is also responsible for ensuring that any weapon they own is 922r compliant.

You, as an individual, must ensure you build or buy a gun that is in compliant with 922r. If you do not have the required parts count you are in violation of the law and can be charged criminally, even as an individual. Possession of a firearm that is not 922r compliant, even if you did not build it yourself, will also put you in violation of the law.

Now I realize that no one has been sucessfully charged and convicted of a 922r violation but that does not negate the fact it is a law that must be followed or you could be charged criminally.

Here are some worksheets to ensure you are not in violation of 922r:

AK's

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildAkVerifyCompliance

Saiga rifles

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaVerifyCompliance

Saiga shotguns

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaShotgunVerifyCompliance

Dolomite

[Guest 6.8 AR]

And I thought it was only to manufacturers. Oh, well.

[RED333]

O yes, everybody, I had to watch what I am putting on my S12 and S308.

[Smith]

Not arguing the opinion, but i still hold that on an individual level its irrelevant. Its as if they passed a law that everyone had to dream in red. If it can't be enforced and can't be applied then it doesn't exist, but that's gun laws for you.>_>

[Dolomite_supafly]

Do what you want but I spoke to two seperate agents and got the same exact answer.

You are more than welcome to call for yourself, (304) 616-4500. Just tell the secretary you need clarification on a law.

I promise they will not come kick your door in and shoot your dog. I talk to them at least once a month for clarifications.

Dolomite

[Smith]

[quote name='Dolomite_supafly' timestamp='1354275578' post='852765']
Do what you want but I spoke to two seperate agents and got the same exact answer.

You are more than welcome to call for yourself, (304) 616-4500. Just tell the secretary you need clarification on a law.

I promise they will not come kick your door in and shoot your dog. I talk to them at least once a month for clarifications.

Dolomite
[/quote]

[quote name='AK Guy' timestamp='1354250153' post='852725']
[b]Not arguing the opinion[/b], but i still hold that on an individual level its irrelevant. Its as if they passed a law that everyone had to dream in red. If it can't be enforced and can't be applied then it doesn't exist, but that's gun laws for you.>_>
[/quote]

[Dolomite_supafly]

Believe me it [u]COULD[/u] be enforced. Think agents can't be on a public range and ask to verify compliance? They absolutely can and do verify compliance with all kinds of federal laws.

Your analogy is not the best. You can pick and choose to have a gun that is not in compliance with 922r but you cannot choose what you dream about. Also, there is no way for the ATF to verify whether your dreams are in red but they can 100% verify if the firearm in your possession is in compliance with 922r.

Dolomite

[Trekbike]

[quote name='Dolomite_supafly' timestamp='1354294420' post='852870']
you cannot choose what you dream about. Also, there is no way for the ATF to verify whether your dreams are in red
Dolomite
[/quote]

Dolomite, thanks for putting in the effort to get this law clarified.

Not to jack the thread but all the talk of dreams made me remember the movie "Inception". Good movie IMO.

[TrickyNicky]

I can see both sides of the issue on this, there are all kinds if goofy laws that are difficult to enforce on a large level. If you had a large plot of land and a devil may care attitude who's to know or stop you from building an SBR out your AR pistol and rifle?
Having said that the way I see it though is why take the chance? It's so much easier in this case to be in full compliance, plus in many instances the compliance parts are upgrades anyway.

[Smith]

Kinda my point. Its really a non issue. Its actually fairly hard not to be compliant on an AK. Something folks get worked up about that is pretty much irrelevant. Don't think I've ever had an AK that didn't meet 922r.

[Dolomite_supafly]

But, regardless of how silly, it is a law. And it is the ATF that is choosing not to enforce it but they could if they wanted to.

There are thousands of laws on the books that should not be. But it is easier to ignore, or not enforce, them than to repeal them.

Dolomite

[mikegideon]

At this point in our lives, we have a president that hates AK's. If I owned one, I would make the effort to assure myself that it's compliant. The level of risk could change, especially with the Singin' Commie running the government. I think we're in for an ugly four years. Edited November 30, 2012 by mikegideon

[Guest 270win]

I did not think 922R applied to Short Barrel Rifles, SBShotguns, and machine guns.

[Keyless]

Having built several AK's from parts kits at home for personal use , they must be 922r compliant  , it was our understanding that 922 r does not apply to NFA firearms . We thought that NFA overruled 922 r . Pistols are exempt from 922 r. But I am no expert and can always be wrong .

 

And yes it is easy to build an AK  that would not be compliant .On a milled receiver 5 parts must be replaced and on a stamped receiver , 6 parts . Most that are imported already built will meet this requirement , but building from a parts kit is different . Parts kits come with original trigger groups ( 3 parts ) , stock sets and grip ( 3 more ) and so on.  I took extra steps to make sure all mine comply without having to count any magazine parts. Just incase a non USA magazine got installed at the wrong time or place, it would still be legal.

 

You also need to pay attention when converting a Saiga .A conversion would need to apply .I also converted an SLR 95 and made sure it complies as well . I always figured I would end up being the first one to get charged so I made mine comply . I didn't want to be the one they made an example out of.

 

 I have heard it said that the installing of a magazine is , by some , concidered "assembling" and if that is true and you stuck the wrong magazine in at the wrong time you could be the lucky first winner of the 922 r violation prize . Not sure if it would hold up or if it is true.

 

  At this point in time They are probably looking for anyone that they can demonize to help there cause. Just imagine the news of a Law abbiding citizen , that legally purchased a legal rifle and has altered his AK to now an illegal status . The facts have not entered in before and I see no reason to believe that the facts would matter now. Just a headache I don't need .

Edited January 12, 2013 by Keyless